STAR WARS: "Rise of Skywalker" **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Dec 20, 2019.

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  1. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Here's a video from John Campea about Kathy Kennedy's handling of Star Wars that pretty much puts things in perspective...



    I firmly believe that she was the right choice. The problem is she hasn't always had the right approach to running things.
     
  2. gabacabriel

    gabacabriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    We get it, David, you REALLY LIKE Star Wars - but your desire to defend/rationalise/justify every-single-little-bloody-thing of this new trilogy just makes you sound like a Disney apologist.

    Alien Space Horses running around on the outer hull of a Star Destroyer with no discernable atmosphere = really crap idea.

    End of.

    Move along!
     
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  3. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Not defending. Just bringing a different perspective and point of view beyond the kneejerk "diznee Star Wars automatically bad". Which seems to bother you curiously.

    Also if I recall the said Star Destroyer was indeed within the atmosphere of Exogol. high off the ground ? Yes. But it wasn't in space.

    The horses on the Star Destroyer were silly and stupid and stretching credibility.Not disputing that. but so were Teddy bears beating the Empire. So was Han and Leia walking around inside a space slug on an asteroid in zero gravity with no protective gear aside from a flimsy simple oxygen mask. So was 8 year old Anakin Skywalker blowing up a space ship. So on and so forth. A lot of Star Wars has always been silly,campy, stupid and illogical. And that didn't start under "big bad Diznee". They are merely keeping with the tradition of goofball stuff that George gave us.

    There is legit criticism of how Disney has managed these new films and there is nitpicking of the new and willfull ignorance of the past flaws of the old. Making a big deal out of what is basically a fairly quick and innocuous eye rolling visual gag and to try and use that to bolster some sort of case that "see? diznee baddd' seems to be more the later.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  4. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    By the way, are there any old Buck Rodgers or Flash Gordon episodes that are considered to be the ones that high influenced George, more than just the generic concept? That is, the most "Star Wars"-like? It's been a while since I watched Empire Of Dreams, so maybe it is mentioned in there. I do recall some old films were shown in that doc that had some very similar camera shots compared what was used as the Falcon escaped the Death Star in Episode 4.
     
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  5. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    How did Tony Stark build the huge machine to do the "time heist" in Avengers Endgame so quickly? Where did the contractors/workers stay, where did he get the raw materials so fast? Oh I guess he had all his super friends build it. It's just poof, he suddenly gets the idea and they build it in like two days. My point is it's just as illogical but no one complains about it and it made billions. If you want to try you can pick every movie apart, I don't get why we don't get more bothered over all of these other movies as we do star wars, because when it boils down to it, they are all fiction and you can find something in all of them that isn't logical Do we really believe that because you get bit by a super spider you can now shoot webs out of your hands, swing from those webs, and climb walls and have super strength?

    As for Palpatine building all these ships and such, how did he in the prequels get a clone army built with no one else in the senate or jedi counsel to know? How did Iran and North Korea build up their nuclear arsenal for years? We didn't know for many years or decades because they hid it and did it in secret.
     
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  6. FredHubbard

    FredHubbard Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    yeah the space horses are what annoyed me the most. clearly actual horses with some bits of carpet stuck to them.
     
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  7. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yep. I mean what's next? Putting a big fur rug on elephants and calling them banthas? I mean,what idiot would do something lame like that?:whistle:
     
  8. FredHubbard

    FredHubbard Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    not sure about this bit. primitive teddy bears beating the Empire always reminds me of peasants kicking out a technologically advanced nation from occupying their own country somewhere in SE Asia not all that long ago !
     
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  9. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Don't you understand? If I liked it I don't need an explanation! If I hate it,I need a power point presentation of how and why every single thing occured in it,and even when given to me I'll probably reject it because I already an predesposed to nitpick everything about this thing I don't like and no explanation will satisfy me!

    Also Disney Star Wars bad!
     
  10. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    They put effort into making the Banthas look like a new creature and not just poorly disguised elephants.
     
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  11. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    They're furry horses, So what? Nothing wrong with having horses in Star Wars with a little bit of a twist. Wookies, after all, are just guys in fursuits so throw a horse in a fursuit and you're set. People keep saying "space horses" they aren't space horses, they were never in space. They use them to ride along a Star Destroyer as a way of getting past their jamming technology in a nod to the overcoming tech with nature or whatever of Return of the Jedi. Nothing wrong with that, they were going after a specific target on 1 ship it's not as though their strategy to fight the fleet was to land horses on every single ship. The complaint about the horses seems more about coming up with snarky criticisms than anything else.

    [​IMG]


    Being a hater doesn't make you any better, and liking a movie doesn't make you an apologist.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  12. Ringmaster_D

    Ringmaster_D Surfer of Sound Waves

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    That was exactly Lucas's intent.
     
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  13. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    You only have two questions?

    Here are the things that bugged me

    Fakes deaths

    1. Chewie - and the reaction of Rey after killing him was off odd in that she doesn't seem to care that much
    2. C3PO - pointless manipulation
    3. Rey - pointless manipulation

    Impossible

    4. TIE fighters with lightspeed drives
    5. The second Deathstar is obliterated at the end of Jedi but somehow huge parts are intact and didn't burn up on re-entry or crumble upon crashing.
    6. It would have taken Lando days in SW lore to travel the distance he does yet he gathers an entire fleet in hours?

    Highly implausible

    7. The Emperor surviving somehow?
    8. How did they build a massive fleet seemingly in secret with what resources and people?

    Stupid plot choices

    9. A fleet of 1000 deadly ships is all dependent on one navigation beacon? Why not build the shops with their own beacons
    10. The Emperor surviving completely undermines Anakin's sacrifice
    11. Every Sith ship has a weapon as destructive as a Deathstar - it took them years to build a Deathstar and the whole point was it was such a deadly weapon. To have another thousand Deathstars completely undermines the efforts to destroy the previous Deathstars.
    12. They have to find one McGuffin to find another which.
    13. The dagger was made by who? Who went to the crashed Deathstar and for what purpose?
    14. The dagger only works of you are standing on the exact spot required yet there is (unlike Raiders of the Lost Ark) nothing to tell you where to stand but Rey magically just stands on the right spot.
    15. Chewie's medal
    16. Rose being completely sidelined on purpose 17. Kylo is somehow turned from evil by his mum calling him up?
    18. Rey kissing Kylo - he is an evil man that has killed many people she cares about and she just can forget all that?
    19. How did Lando find so many ships in such a short time and why did they come to him when they didn't come to Leia in the Last Jedi
    20. 'On your left Cap' Endgame rip-off
    21. Hux being a traitor as he hates Kylo?
    22. Wedge cameo pointless and took you put of the film
    23. Why does Rey go to Tattoine at the end? Leia has no connection to it and Luke wanted to leave? Just a cheap way of seeing the twins suns and hearing that part of the score.
    24. Jennah and Lando conversation at the end - pointless
    25. The Emperor using force lightening to disable the fleet? He's never been that powerful.
    26. Kylo having the ability to bring Rey back from the dead when it is established it is a Sith power that took years to master, but Kylo just doesn't like it's nothing? Completely undermines Anakin's need to save the Emperor and turn to the Dark side.
    27. Palpatine raising a fleet of a Thousand ships from under the ground by sheer force power?
    28. Rey recognising the ship her parents left on. Ships aren't unique, they are massed produced.
    29. The Knights of Ren. So where did these guys suddenly appear from and why were they not in the previous films? Fan service and they did nothing.
    30. Rey Palpatine? Stupid.
    31. Rey Skywalker - why take someone else's name? It would be more poetic, when asked, if she just said 'Rey' and be happy with that.
    32. How come everyone seems to know who the Sith are when everyone appeared to forget who the Jedi are.
     
  14. Veni Vidi Vici

    Veni Vidi Vici Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    So along with stereotyping Japanese people as treacherous mercantilists, the imbecilic Binks as Jamaican and Anekin's slave owner as Jewish, we can add the Vietnamese as jungle-dwelling cannibals?
     
  15. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    That's quite a list, but I'm going to pointlessly go through them.

    Fakes deaths

    1. Chewie - and the reaction of Rey after killing him was off odd in that she doesn't seem to care that much
    Don't agree with this, thinking Chewie has died is a real driving force in making her doubt herself throughout the movie. If the two others weren't with her then she may have run off to Ahch-To sooner.
    2. C3PO - pointless manipulation
    3. Rey - pointless manipulation

    Why? I think this is the best 3PO has ever been in a Star Wars movie. He's just a comedic plot device but so what? And Rey gives Ben Solo a final piece of redemption


    Impossible

    4. TIE fighters with lightspeed drives
    How is this impossible? In Attack of the Clones, smaller ships could use a docking device to go to light speed so I don't see why Lightspeed tech couldn't miniaturize since then.
    5. The second Deathstar is obliterated at the end of Jedi but somehow huge parts are intact and didn't burn up on re-entry or crumble upon crashing.
    I think it's more plausible than having the Deathstar vaporize without a trace, to be honest, it's a HUGE object, Moon-sized.
    6. It would have taken Lando days in SW lore to travel the distance he does yet he gathers an entire fleet in hours?
    Lightspeed jumping? I think this is a classic, "It's a movie!" question.

    Highly implausible

    7. The Emperor surviving somehow?
    He didn't survive.
    8. How did they build a massive fleet seemingly in secret with what resources and people?
    Palpatine probably gained countless resources during his time as Emporer and Supreme Chancellor. Maybe he built up a backup plan, there is a line of dialogue where Leia has Kelly Tran researching Empire era destroyers. He's also in a secret planet/system and who knows what resources are available there.

    Stupid plot choices

    These are all just silly nitpicks IMO, I can't be bothered getting into all of those.
     
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  16. bluenote

    bluenote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I watched this during the holidays, and absolutely loved it! I never get the nitpicking that these new movies receive. Also, I don't know why everyone needs an explanation/backstory for every detail?? Yes, Palpatine lived and it's strongly suggested that it was by Sith magic/cloning. Is that not good enough? Are we then supposed to see a flashback to how he did that? I guess for some people, they want to see that. Not me. That hint was good enough.

    Remember, when the Emperor was in the original trilogy. We knew nothing about him. Why was he so much more powerful than Vader? Why did Vader do his bidding? Vader was the main villain, but now there is a more powerful villain who eventually gets killed and no one knows who he is? No one cared. Now, everyone needs to know everything.

    Yes, there were some details that didn't make sense, but it didn't take away any enjoyment for me.

    I definately want to see this again though, as I feel I missed some details here and there.
     
  17. kozy814

    kozy814 Forum Resident

    Star Wars. Humans not born on Earth having wars with other humans from other planets. This was the furthest reaches of what a mass audience could realistically comprehend in 1977. Combine the newest most alarmingly awesome Special FX w/the altruistic personalities/warm relationships of the protagonists (this was going to be critical in 1977 cinema), and you have the perfect recipe for a cutting edge film series that can last decades.
     
  18. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well yes that was Lucas' intent of course, but it easily could have been The empire taken out on a wookie planet which was indeed George's original plan...until he realized making small furry suits was cheeper than a bunch of big furry suits and cute furry Teddy bears were an easy toy sell. So thus we got ewoks.

    Still,on the face of it,Teddy bears taking out imperials is silly and campy regardless of the intent behind it. Like "space horses". Of course the difference is the teddy bears were in a movie most of us grew up with and love. The horses are in a movie we were (cynical) adults when we saw.
     
  19. FredHubbard

    FredHubbard Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    maybe. I generally liked the film , i'd like a longer cut which may iron out a few of the plot holes. just thought the horses looked a bit crap. I never knew the bantha was an elephant until David mentioned it earlier and I had to google it. effective make up there.
     
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  20. bluenote

    bluenote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Exactly. Watch Jedi now, the ewoks are actually taking down fully armoured Stormtroopers by jumping on their backs and dropping rocks on them. Really???
     
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  21. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I'll admit it isnt quite as easy to tell they are elephants upon first look,but if you watch close enough it's pretty clear it's just an elephant with a rug on it. A clever solution given the limited resources at the time but today it wouldn't pass muster.

    I suppose JJ could have augmented the horses with cgi so they'd look more alien,but then you'd probably see complaints about JJ relying too much on CGI.
     
  22. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yeah. I can only barely buy stormtrooper armor not protecting against blaster bolts,but they can't resist rocks?

    Again,most of us were kids when we saw it so we didn't question it and still give it a pass today because it was in our childhood. But horses and porgs? A bridge too far!
     
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  23. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    They could have just not had alien horses charging on the Star Destroyer.

    I liken that sequence to the Rathtar sequence in TFA...a rather silly unnecessary departure from everything else going on around them. I still really like both of those movies though. At least those sequences were relatively short, unlike the whole casino planet plotline in TLJ.
     
  24. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Speaking of which -- I see people complaining that the plot of Rise of Skywalker is too complicated, and the pace is too quick, and there are too many characters.... how did they ever cope with the last two Avengers movies? Those seem to me to be on an entirely different level of convoluted complexity to anything in Star Wars and yet -- billions.
     
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  25. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm amazed at how that Marvel franchise gets almost universal acclaim.
     
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