Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker*

I had a dream last night that Jar Jar Binks showed up at the end of the movie cheering and waving and promptly had his arm hacked off by a lightsaber.

 

Ben was conflicted from the very start - he was never the "true believer" he pretended to be.

He showed additional internal conflicts as the trilogy progressed, and those reached critical mass in "Rise".

Honestly, I think Vader's switch in the OT was less organic. It wasn't until "ROTJ" that he showed any signs of a desire to "go good", whereas Ben exhibited those leanings from the start...

 

Leia using her remaining life force to conjure that memory of Han for her son works really great in concept but the execution is confusing and doesn't quite come off.

 

Heck, I didn't even get that, and I saw the movie twice!

I thought Leia's last gesture was just to distract him during a conflict...

 

Maybe I'm reading it wrong??

 

Or I might have it wrong! I view Han's appearance more as Ben's conscience, not a direct conjuring from Leia, but I could be wrong.

I think we agree that it's vague in the movie...

 

Spoiler: LEIA'S DEATH

I assumed it was Leia who conjured Han to reach her boy, but I agree it wasn't entirely clear.

 

I saw it new years day and enjoyed it. Strange thing is, I don't remember most of it.

 

That's 2 votes in that direction vs. my 1 against it!

Actually, I don't vote against it - I just didn't see it that way.

Wish this discussion had popped up before I saw "RoS" a 2nd time yesterday and I would've had it in mind!

 

Wasn't she passed out by the time Han appears to Kylo? I can't remember the order of events. But didn't she distract him and then pass out?

 

I think the key to Vader's turn is the conversation between him and Luke when they are alone. Luke tells Vader (and the audience) that he senses the good in him and the conflict. When Vader tells him "Indeed, you are powerful," it has nothing to do with Luke's fighting skills, but tempting Vader back to good. After he has them take Luke, he looks contemplative.

Then during their final fight Luke says he can feel the good in Vader and the conflict. There were more hints in Empire, as Vader was obsessed with finding Luke (at that point wanting to turn him to the Dark Side to defeat the Emperor), but he clearly had a soft spot for his son.

I think it is well done.

 

Yes.

Spoiler: this is still technically a non-spoiler thread...

She reaches out to Ben and her presence distracts him just long enough for Rey to gut him with his own lightsaber. Han doesn't appear until after she's already abandoned him on the Death Star wreckage.

 

I have no problem with the execution - my point was simply that there was no real hint of a "redeemed Vader" until "ROTJ".

Luke does everything he can do to defeat Vader in "ESB" - he's not looking for good in him, probably because he just views him as the monster who killed Obi-wan and he doesn't know DV's his pops...

 

Right; it makes sense that Luke isn't trying to flip him until ROTJ because he only learns their connection in the last 10 min. of Empire.

 

I’ve searched google for a script of the segment of dialog, but I’m certain there was an exchange where they both acknowledged Han was just a memory imagination, like Han says something like, “and here I am now, just a memory of yours,” and Kylo replies “yes, I know that..”.

Edit:
just found it:

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Wikiquote

 

Meesa think he sucks! That would've been a real fan-pleasing moment if Abrams had done that. I'm actually a little sorry that more of the older characters didn't pop up in crowd shots. Hey, at least we got a few seconds of Ewoks.

It's amazing how many fans kinda treat the recent films like this:

 

Eh, it was very clear to me what Leia did, since they showed enough close-ups for us to understand that these characters were "connecting" mentally. (And I'll keep it vague since this is the non-spoiler thread.)

 

Naa, Rey should have chopped off his head. Then there would be a real audience applause moment!

Should have been the final scene.

Yeah Ewoks!

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Which is something that I don't quite get. They are so much of an improvement over the prequels. I don't understand the hate?

Screenwriting is better as is the casting and characters.

 

Yeah, I get that. My original point was that the Sequel Trilogy explored Ben's development a lot more than the OT explored Vader's.

I guess that was my point - I don't even remember what started that discussion!

 

This is a minor point but I think he throws the lightsabre and then turns around to see that Han is gone.

 

The Fandom Menace love to hate.

I should make a T-shirt...

 

Take a look in the mirror, you're all no better when it comes to your prequel hate and I'm saying this after I thoroughly enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker!

 

I legitimately had a dream about Jar Jar Binks, what can I say??!

 

My god, we were appalled at the prequels and I always will be. Watch the documentary The People vs. George Lucas and get a sense of how many other people (and critics) hated them. (Producer Rick McCallum told me, <paraphrasing> "hey, we were happy with the response from the audience, and these films were made for a mass audience, not critics or the crazy fans.")

I have to say, I think the prequels got better over time, but there are some howlingly awful story/structure problems with those films, and the characters are all over the place. But there are aspects of the films that are very, very well-made and well-crafted. And you can certainly say that the films made an impact, since we're still talking about them almost 20 years later.

 

I actually loved the prequels. I didn’t see them in theaters until the last one, but I bought the discs but didn’t watch them for at least a year after I acquired them just because the buzz was so bad. I really don’t understand the hate for them.