STAR WARS: "Rise of Skywalker" **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Dec 20, 2019.

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  1. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Understanding that it's based on comic book movies and therefore Not That Serious™ and not subject to picking every "how does this operate in the real world" nit that someone can find? Not that it doesn't happen with Marvel too, but still.

    Same thing with a space wizard fantasy with roots in Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

    edit: not accusing you of any such pedantry
     
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  2. MekkaGodzilla

    MekkaGodzilla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Westerville, Ohio
    Holy Moley that sequence was HORRIBLE! Sometimes, okay many times, J.J. has some really rotten instincts.
     
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  3. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    I still like the supposition that JJ Abrams had his own plans for the trilogy (as executive producer, even though Johnson and Trevorrow (originally) were set to direct) and that this particular part of the movie would have been the cliffhanger of an Abrams-led Episode VIII. Not sure how based in reality it is but I've heard that and it kinda fits. Hence why TROS is so jumbled; it's two movies in one.
     
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  4. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    It does have a feeling of being two movies in one. I don't know how J.J. would have handled the end of Force Awakens with Luke in a second movie but perhaps it would have had elements of the dagger quest.
     
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  5. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    How does it feel like it’s two movies in one? The movie is basically about one thing — the heroes trying to find the planet where the Emperor is. They look for clues that will lead them to the planet, and they go to that planet to fight him. It’s one of the more focused Star Wars movie plots, actually. Compare to say Return of the Jedi, where the first third of the movie is about something entirely different from the rest of it.
     
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  6. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Marvel is still in it's "can't do anything wrong" phase. Eventually Marvel will make a film or a move some fans won't like and then the bloom will come off the rose and a certain loud and obnoxious segment of the fanbase will pile on and start nitpicking and second guessing every creative decision without and within the films themselves.

    I thought that was going to happen with the whole Bree Larsen fandom menace freak out,but the overwhelmingly positive reaction to Endgame kept the momentum going for now. But eventually something will happen that will cause some sort of a schism in the fanbase and then nothing will be the same.it happens with every franchise .

    With Star Wars I think that happened with the criticism among fans over the special Editions and the subsequent prequels. That era divided the fans to some degree and once the genie was let out of the bottle there was no way to put it back in.
     
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  7. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Exactly. Go back to the days of the roman empire and the Jewish revolts. There were many times the Jewish peasants defeated the might of the roman empire. The other thing is the ewoks didn't beat the empire, they assisted a well trained and hand chosen rebel attack force to overcome the enemy in one battle, which is hardly teddy bears betting the whole of the empire.
     
  8. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Right on. Lucas expanded the jabba scene because otherwise there wasn't much movie there. To me, the new movies are just as fleshed out as the originals were. This trilogy is about the story of Rey and Ben. There are other side stories, and sure some mis-steps along the way, but the whole trilogy revolves around Ben running away from who he is, and Rey trying to find out who she is.
     
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  9. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yep. The Rey and Ben/Kylo Ren's story was pretty clear and the obvious through line. As well as Luke's story. The rest is overall a mixed bag.

    I honestly think that the best change to this trilogy would have been not to completely retred the empire vs. Rebels dynamic, especially for VII-VIII. There are numerous ways they could have done it. Heck,at least not have the first order look like literally Empire 2.0.

    The characters,new and old were not the problem. It's retreading the same basic conflict from the previous trilogy. If they had just mixed that element up at least a little bit it would have improved this trilogy immensely.

    If you can get past that,then this trilogy has a lot to offer and TROS ,at least speaking for myself ,was a more fitting and epic finale to this saga. Once the prequels were factored in, ROTJ just felt anticlimactic and small. It's a fine end to Darth Vader, but not really for the larger dark side/light side conflict. Again, speaking for myself of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  10. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I do feel the first 45 minutes,the race to get to Palpatine sort of does feel like what could have been Abrams Episode VIII. A maguffen chase. The second half is the final conflict.

    However,you are right in that is a more focused film than ROTJ and even Revenge of the Sith.
     
  11. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    No, it was something that stood out to me during the movie. And I mostly enjoyed the movie. It looked silly. They're just horses with something draped over them. It seemed lazy and un-Star Wars like. Banthas and Wookies are not good comparisons as they are completely new creatures which hide the beings playing them. These are horses. It looks like something you'd see in some low budget sci-fi film.
     
  12. Avenging Robot

    Avenging Robot Senior Member

    OK, I know interpreting movies especially right after seeing them is not usually my forte but considering how much storyline is packed into this film I want to help out. This film carries an important life lesson.

    Here goes:

    "Withnail going teetotal leads to the dark side."

    Glad to help here, my job is done.
     
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  13. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Handsome, Humble, Genius

    Location:
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  14. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Saw this fanedit trailer for the entire Skywalker saga...pretty darn cool....

     
  15. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    "I'll try downloading! That's a neat trick!"

    The little brat was trouble from the start...
     
  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    It got a big laugh with both audiences I was with, but it wasn't an "oh my god, this is so stupid" kinda laugh, it was more a "oh, that's kind of clever" laugh. I remember the same kind of laughter -- and applause -- when Lucas briefly used an elephant as a "Bantha" creature in the first Star Wars...

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Unknown Delight

    Unknown Delight Alan Myers Jazz Heads Unite!

    I liked the Endorian 'horses'.
    Reminded me a bit of a four legged, furrier Taun Taun in a way...with a warthog face.
    The tribal markings on their faces and the overall 'otherworldliness' of the creature design was appealing to me.


    I'd buy an action figure of them, sure.
    :)
     
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  18. TrekkiELO

    TrekkiELO Forum Resident

    You're no better with your "diznee" Star Wars good, but prequels bad and I'm also saying this again after I thoroughly enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker!
     
  19. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Captain Marvel wound up making $1.128 billion dollars worldwide, so I think Bree Larsen can pretty much tell the Fandom Menace to go F themselves.

    If it had bombed... that would be a different story. Reviews as I recall were OK but not great (64 on Metacritic).

    Back to Rise of Skywalker: this article touches on just some of the really stupid things in the movie. Incredibly, they don't mention the hairy Alien Horses, which inspired me to mutter "WTF?" when I saw the film...

    The 23 Dumbest Parts of 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker'''

    I liked the film overall, but the article brings up some good points.
     
  20. While I won’t touch the prequel stereotypes for the sake of brevity, the Ewoks were certainly not cannibals (they were into cooking Han Solo at last view). However, they were inspired by the North Vietnamese army, as they deterred a vastly technologically superior American military for years until they ultimately won out. Lucas has made this clear. Just as he was clear that his initial inspiration for Emperor Palpatine was President Richard Nixon. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he thinks that the Vietnamese are cute and cuddly nor the late Richard Nixon capable of raising your electric bill with his fingertips.
     
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  21. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I think every Star Wars film ever made has some things that don't really make sense, even the best. But I don't think anyone can argue that this latest one has a ton of problems in the script and what they did, character actions and how they messed up the lore.

    How much you like this film is really down to how easily you can overlook these obvious wtf moments. And if you can then that's great but you can't deny they are not there.

    I did enjoy the movie and saw it twice but I guess, having joined the SW fan club in 1978 and seeing and reading a ton of content since, I tend to get something out of any SW content to an extent. But it was all over the place.
     
  22. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Kind of a douchey way to put it don't you think? People just have different priorities. When I watch a film for the first time I'm trying to immerse myself in the characters and their emotional journeys. I don't have a mental bible out with a checklist going "You can't do this, you can't do that". I think that people are too quick to write things off as well, sometimes if something stands out to me I'll think about it rather than dismissing it and locking in my opinion. Take that meme about 3PO and his translation rules. Some people just jump straight to "That's dumb" rather than thinking "Well I guess there are a few possible explanations for that".
    There are also differing perspectives when I saw Revenge of the Sith I've noticed a lot of people will look at Mace Windu fighting Palpatine and say "He won, but Anakin showed up" When I watched that what I saw was Palpatine manipulating Anakin at every step of the way. He takes out all of the Jedi except 1 right out of the bat and then toys with Mace until Anakin is well on his way. Just before Anakin shows up he drops his lightsabre and plays possum to make Anakin intervene.
    Perspective.

    It could also be that the translation matrix or whatever you want to call it is a 3rd party part that you put into the droid while making it. Who knows? It's not as though Anakin (As a child) could manually code over 6 million forms of communication.
     
  23. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    Some good points but I would question the wording 'Impossible' in a fantasy movie. Consistency within that fantasy world though is a different kettle of fish. For example, Tie Fighters were short range vessels in the original trilogy and therefore not equipped for light speed / hyperspace.

    As for time to do things Star Wars has been consistent in being somewhat vague here... How long are they on the Falcon for when travelling to Alderaan? How long does it take Luke to get to Dagobah and how long is he there for? How long are Han, Leia and co on the Falcon for before going to Cloud City? Clearly though it is a bit of a stretch for Lando to get such a huge fleet together in such a short time...

    Plot choices can always be debated and essentially this comes down to the choice of the Director and / or the writers.
     
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  24. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    I personally don' have any issue with Tie fighters doing lightspeed in the sequels but not the original trilogy. I just see it as an evolution of technology. Cars 30 years couldn't do what they can now. Electric and self driving cars didn't exist 2 to 30 years ago but they do now. Just an evolution of auto-making technology. Not sure why ships etc in star wars can't do the same.
     
  25. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I think, according to canon, the quickest you could go from the core planets to the outer unknown regions at lightspeed is still around a week. That's kinda written into the lore. So if we are being strict then it would have taken Lando some time to travel from where he was to the core systems, maybe a day or two, recruit who he did, again it would have been days, and then a week to reach where Palpatine was hiding. Overall at least 10 days according to the rules of the SW universe.

    In the film he does it in a couple of hours, and assembles a fleet of hundreds of ships, which is imo one of those things which just takes you out of the movie instantly because it is so dumb. Especially if you also factor in the thing that no-one answered Leia's personal call for help, not one ship, when they are just fighting the First Order.
     
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