Just recently I purchased a bottle of Tergikleen, and would like to pose this question: Would it be excessive to mix it at a ratio of one drop of Tergikleen per 4oz of distilled/deionized water? I'm using a 4oz glass-bottle mist sprayer to apply the cleaning solution, and rather than pre-mix a larger volume I was hoping to mix as needed. However, that would put the mix ratio at 32 drops per gallon, as opposed to the reccomended 10-20 per gallon. So, what's the difference between "a lot" and "too much"?
I use this stuff with my Okki Nokki. And, I follow the instructions for mixing with distilled water. Why do otherwise?
If the recommendation is 10 to 20 drops per gallon, why in the world would you go with ~32 drops per gallon? Because it's easier? I would recommend mixing it in a larger container at the recommended "dosage" and then transfer it to your smaller container.
Yes! I am prepared to mix a larger volume, but was hoping to avoid having yet another jug of something sitting around my small apartment. The goal is to minimize the footprint of my hobby, and I would like to know, from those who know: is one drop of Tergikleen in four ounces of water excessive to the point of being detrimental to the process, or is that ratio still within the effective range of being efficient and easily rinsed? But your answer's good, too.
The solution is simple! I will weigh 4oz of water in one glass bottle, add one drop of Tergikleen, allow time to dilute, then split that one bottle in to two, and finally add the appropriate amount of water to each bottle. This would give me a ratio of 16 drops per gallon, making 8oz of cleaning solution at a time.
I see you used the X100 but also said you could get tergitol from Talas ....Do you use the x100 similarly? I have an Okki Nokki....and would assume you clean the record with the x100, then rinse with distilled on the RCM? Thanks! Charles
I've been messing around with X-100 (it's easier to get here in Canada than tergitol) and that's how I use it. I followed the instructions on that long Audiokarma thread. I created a 10% stock solution which I use to make my cleaning solution.
I think that's the way to go. I've made too-strong Tergikleen and it seems to be a little harder to rinse off. Too weak and it doesn't spread well. For me its easiest to buy a gallon jug of distilled water, put about 15 drops in it, and use that to fill a smaller squirt bottle. But I do all this in my garage, where gallon jugs of record cleaner tend to blend in easier with the surroundings.
I use tergikleen I put distilled water in a spray bottle about 15 drops 18oz bottle I spray on plenty to coat well then with a mofi brush go in both directions several times each way flip album repeat I spray both sides again then put label protectors on and rinse with warm tap water then it goes into a spin n clean with distilled water only spin several times each way then towel draw I have found that meguiars detail rags work great every album gets this regiment for really stubborn ones as a last resort I use scrubbing bubbles then regular cleaning regiment have had very good results....as soon as clean and dry they go into a clean poly sleeve...I have evolved to this regiment and been using it for close to a year now
I am ready to pull the trigger on Triton X-100. I like it because for the same price as Tergikleen you get A LOT more. Since I plan to use it mostly in my ultrasonic cleaner then I need a larger quantity. I see some places recommend adding alcohol to the cleaning mix? Is that necessary?
Now I am deciding against Triton X-100 after reading this: While relatively stable, Triton X-100 is best stored tightly capped in a cool, dark place so as to avoid oxidation (peroxide formation). The concentrate is quite viscous and dissolves into water very slowly. To make solutions, one can mix for several hours on a stir plate, heat the solution, or premix in a solution of 50% alcohol. It should be noted that there is evidence that octylphenol ethoxylate detergents like Triton X negatively effect aquatic environments. Biodegradation produces a toxic aromatic hydrocarbon product (from the released tail group) that mimics estrogen and messes with reproductive systems. For these reasons, the EU is set to ban their use in 2021 [4]. This ban will likely also include Tergitol NP-9 as it is essentially the same as Triton X-100 so European enthusiasts will have to use Tergitol 15-S-7 or other non-ionic detergents going forward. Record Cleaning, A Comprehensive Resource
^^^^^^^^^^great info thanks. I also use Tergikleen in US bath, 20 drops 2 gal. Rinse with RO water. Records look and sound fantastic.
If you are worried about the mixing, I wouldn't be. I did it (when I made my stock solution) and it did not take several hours and I did not have to heat iteither. It did take a bit of time and slow stirring for sure but I didn't help it along with alcohol. Adding will make the process quicker but without it, it was not onerous. If it's everything else, I can't offer much help there. I'd double check what tergikleen is made from. I think it could be 15-S-7 but I can't recall for sure.
That's not the gist of his post IMO. It's the toxicity. I won't use it for that reason living out in the woods, near lakes and streams and on a septic system and we use well water for drinking and spring water for irrigation. And to think I use to move Earth for a living and back in the day oil changes went into a pit on the ground.
Correct, but probably Tergikleen is just as bad. Who knows? We only know when people die unfortunately...
If interested, Tegikleen is by the material safety data sheet, a blend of Tergitol 15-S-3 which is an 'oil soluble' nonionic surfactant and Tergitol 15-S-9 which is a 'water soluble' nonionic surfactant. Both of these are biodegradable and are not aquatic toxins like Triton X100, different type of surfactant chemistry. Need to be careful with Tergikleen, too high a concentration and the 15-S-3 can come out of solution. If you cannot easily get Tergitol 15-S-9 (which is a concentrate) and should be prepared no more than a 0.1 wt% solution (1 mL per 1000 mL), a substitute could be ILFORD-ILFOTOL that is a blend of nonionic surfactant that is likely Stepan™ BIO-SOFT™ N25-7 or N25-9 that is very similar to either Tergitol 15-S-7 or 15-S-9, plus a very small amount of a safe biocide. Since the ILFORD-ILFOTOL is a diluted solution, to get a 0.1 wt% solution need to mix 20 mL to one-liter, a solution of 0.05% may work OK for single use. ILFORD-ILFOTOL recommends diluting 1 part to 200 parts water to use as a 'wetting agent'. But for cleaning you need more. Hope this helps.
Any thoughts on using a plant based rinse aid like this one below instead of Tergikleen/Triton?. It's only $5: Nature's Promise Rinse Aid Free and Clear (8 fl oz) - Instacart Ingredients Water, Naturally Derived Surfactant System And Rinse Aids, Plant-based Propanediol, Citric Acid.
If Ilford Ilfotol is similar to TergiKleen, then that answers both the alcohol and dilution questions: the London Jazz Collector formula is 5ml Ilford Ilfotol to 800ml distilled water (1:160) with 200ml isopropyl alochol (20% concentration, probably more than necessary). He, and others, report excellent results. And if Ilford Ilfotol contains a biocide, then I imagine it would last a lot longer than TergiKleen, but IDK. LJC home recipe for vacuum record cleaning machines
I had a pretty bad experience with the LJC recipe myself. I think the concept is sound but the ratios of both alcohol and ilfotol should be reduced. I found it required heavy amounts of rinsing or else things sounded cruddy, and I'm normally somewhat ambivalent towards rinsing. This is hard statement to qualify, but if the surfactant is working so well you can coat an entire record with a few drops, chances are you have too much. Just IMO etc.
If you don’t mind me asking, what was your negative LJC experience? I’m a happy user of Tergikleen and a water rinse on an RCM, but I picked up a bottle of Ilfotol to attempt to make the LJC formula so I could compare it to Tergikleen.