I went from around 2.0 down to 1.4 on my 1200GR so perhaps there is something there? Maybe I'll play around on more problematic records.
I popped back into this thread hoping to find some more input on the ML. I'm sure it'll come around sooner or later.
That's interesting, I have my vtf at just over 2 grams per a scale and my anti-skate is just under 2. I feel it tracks the end of sides better like this.
I have my Hana SL on sale in the classifieds, in case somebody here might be interested... To the Gorts: I carefully checked the forum rules and apparently sitewise honest and limited self-promotion is not forbidden. If I am wrong please delete this and forgive me.
I have owned my Hana EL cartridge for less than a month and it probably has less than 50 hours on it, but maybe more. I noticed that right out of the box, it was impressive. I did purchase an Accutrak protractor and aligned it using the Baerwald method and noticed an improvement. Lately, I've noticed that it isn't tracking like it was a few weeks back, so I rechecked everything. I have it used on a VPI Scout, and I use a headshell weight. I track at 2.0 VTF with a digital scale, anti-skate is set up using the VPI method and azimuth as well. I try to get the tonearm measured to as level as possible with the record surface. Are there any tweaks I should know about? Is the VTA/SRA generally set with a level tonearm with the Hana?
I used a mint protractor, gotta order it specifically for your table / arm combo and alignment style. It’s the same as the printed ones, but it’s more precise and mirrored. But most importantly I also used a usb microscope. It’s a pain to get it positioned properly, but it made a world of difference. This is the one I got, microscope. I had set everything up as good as I could, with the VPI protractor , the dennesen protractor, and one of the printed ones, but when I used the mint and the microscope, I saw how far off I was. And since we are dealing with really really really small contact area the more precise the better. Did it make a difference? Dramatic, the Hana SL sounded good before but now it sounds fantastic. Also either use a PC oscilloscope or the Fozgometer to set the azimuth, and anti skate. made a big difference. You need to go through the process a few times because every time you change the tracking force, VTA, or position of the stylus, you change the othe measurements, it’s small, but remember what we are dealing with here. VPI Prime with Hana SL. Good luck mdr
Just to play devil's advocate here, the EL should not require such a thorough setup as, in general, elliptical styluses (as on the EL) are far less sensitive to setup than Shibata styluses (as on the SL). Of course there's nothing to lose by being so thorough aside from some modest cash outlay for a good protractor and potentially a Fozgometer. I myself have the SH and also went for a Mint protractor, along with setting azimuth via test record and PC. Definitely helped with channel balance.
I also own a Mint protractor, but don't really favor it anymore. I had a Fozgometer too a while back, but I ended up selling that. I was just looking for some general advice for the EL - tail up? tail down? level/neutral? VTF tweaks? I tend to set things as described and making minor adjustments by ear.
My good friend and Hana dealer as well, is Jeff Harris of Reference Analog. He is in the Oklahoma area but sells a lot and does in-home cartridge alignment/installation for the Texas and Oklahoma area. He'd be a great resource to pick his brain. He has the ML and SL versions, also the SL mono. Jeff is super nice and laid back. I've give him a call. PM me if you want to connect with him. I know he'd love to chat.
Thanks for the input! I've actually got a dealer here in DFW that is a big advocate of the HANA line. I'm not currently in the market, but I might audition these when it comes time to replace/upgrade in the future. However, I might also move on to something else. I've never disliked HANAs for any reason, but they also have not been my favorite in any situation. I think it's just not my favorite sound signature. I'm keeping my mind open to the ML though because I felt the sound of the EL to the SL was fairly different. I felt EL was much warmer in tone from memory, but the SL was much more energetic and detailed. Granted, some different components and I didn't hear them back to back. But that's what I seem to recall.
I view the tip of the stylus from the front and side to make sure it’s perfectly aligned with the markings. After I adjust the VTA &VTF.
I found that both the EL and SL benefited by being very slightly tail down to my ears. In my arm I am confident in a VTF of 1.9, although I could go lighter according to the CBS test record. Bias is about 1.5. However, I think exact VTF and bias are quite arm specific. for my arm bais is always less than VTF. YMMV
I have an SL and would agree that in my system I prefer an ever so slight tail down setting. You can't tell by eyeballing that it's tail down, just with a lined index card running next to the headshell, and even then you have to really look. That little tail down tweak as compared to perfectly level snaps the sound stage into place. Music is presented in a more 3-d way, meaning background voices/instruments seem to float or appear in a more black background. It's subtle but absolutely something I notice and love! My point is for anyone with this cart, keep playing with the VTA as the SL seems to be very sensitive to it, at least in my system. This is my first Shibata and based on what I've read, my experience is similar to others.
I own the Hana SL for two months now. It replaced a vintage Shure V15 Type IV with Jico neo SAS replacement stylus and the SL betters it. More delicate, retrieves more spatial and low level information from my records. I own a lot of records that I purchased used and this cartridge makes them sound far better by somehow increasing air and detail and at once diminishing surface noise...astonishing! I'd have to spend $1200 to better this $750 cart (and that would be for the new Hana ML Microline cart!!)
Another SL tweak recently, I lowered the loading from 400 to 300 and found it made a noticeable improvement in focus without getting boxed in. Voices are clearer and lyrics are easier to follow. I realize every system is different so this may or may not help someone, just thought I'd share.
As one who is pretty sure about buying a Hana SL with a new Rega Planar 6, I have been perusing reviews. Here is one recently posted. Hana SL Moving Coil Cartridge - Positive Feedback
One interesting thing with my SL. I'm about 22-23 hours in so far - suddenly for a couple of days over the last weekend (4-5 hours of playback) the bass went boomy as anything and the top end disappeared. I rechecked the alignment, VTF etc and all was bang on - so shrugged and just played some stuff that I know doesn't sound very good for a couple of days. Suddenly, it went back to its liquid smooth, but precise, presentation.
Posting here because I didn't want to start a new thread. Listening to the Hana EH I installed earlier on my Gyrodec Se and so far I am so disappointed I am contemplating taking it off and reinstalling my Sumiko BP Evo 3. The difference is abysmal. Only way I can describe it is the magic has gone. It is all sounds and less music, vocals pinched and at times recessed. I'm using a Rega Aria into an Elex R through Harbeth c7es3s. Bass is present and ok, highs too but the midrange, where I expected it to excell is weaker than with the Sumiko so that tracks like Happiness is Easy on Talk Talks the Colour of Spring don't wow as before because sounds that would literally leap from the speakers don't have the same impact. It has been set up carefully, tracking is fine, vta OK techno arm is parallel to the platter. I have put about 5 hours on it so far, but as I am not a great believer in break in, so I am pretty pessimistic. I think I got swayed by all the positive reviews and had unrealistic expectations. I will try getting to 50 hours just to see, but if it stays like this it is coming off to be used as a spare and I am sticking with the devil I know from now on. Anybody else try these two carts and find the same thing? And just to be clear, the Hana is not bad, it just doesn't compare well with my Sumiko which surprises me. Going to pour myself another drink and try convincing myself it sound different, thats all and once I get used to it.... Doubt it somehow.
cartridges 100% do have a break-in period- there's a suspension in there for the cantilever that has to get worked in a bit! give it more time, but if you still don't like it after 20-30 hours then it's probably time to try something else.
Very strange, I put that cart in my Pioneer Pl-50L and I found it to be a great upgrade from the Ortofon Bronze.
FWIW I played around a bit today and adjusted from 300 to 1000 and after a few tracks out it back. It got quite edgy in the high end. Back at 300 things smoothed out again and became warmer. Seems like 300-400 is the sweet spot.
Duty bound to report back on my experience so far with the Hana EH as my initial impression was far from positive, and for what it is worth, which in my case, is a lot, my wife was far from impressed, simply saying it sounded fuzzy. Well 30 hours in and we're back to enjoying the music, and well, I don't know what to think, because I am listening to David Sylvian's Brilliant Trees, as I type and it sounds terrific. I don't ever recall a cart been so sensitive to tweaks, break in, psychoacoustics, whatever we want to call that span of time before you know if it is a keeper or not. It has not been plain sailing and there are still a few things to iron out before deciding. Just to recap, alignment is straightforward so a basic, in the ball-park, starting point was not difficult to achieve and yet bass was weak and ill defined, sound stage non existent, some instruments too pronounced others, which I knew must be there, seemed non existent and to top it all off, loud pops on the right channel. I swear that at one point, I would have crushed the damn thing in frustration had it not been attached to the tonearm. So what changed? Not sure. Too much static present, so disconnected everything, moved the phono to the next shelf, general clean up and tidying of each and every cable. Levelled deck (again) Baerwald reset, vta etc and so on and so on and guess what, it was better, but not that much, so f*** it, I have had enough, and though I know it is still early, I find a guy on YouTube complaining about the same things, so by now I think I am a fool for falling for the hype and next time I better be smarter than to look for a taste of the high end on the cheap, and cheap it isn't, not on my salary. Following day, double espresso and I am at it again and it is sounding good, but the killer is when I reduce anti skate to almost zero and I can't believe what I am hearing. Everything snaps into place, details, soundstage, the lot. Bingo. Dialled it in using Corea's Return to Forever, castanets never sounded better, Gene Clark's No Other, has me grinning ear to ear, Ralph Towner, New Order Blue Monday, can't get the things on fast enough cos it is all music to my ears. Now I am just hoping it isn't too good to last. Only time will tell but for now I am sitting pretty, I guess some carts break in harder than others and me and the Hana may have a future together after all.
