Vinyl records now in crisis: Apollo Transco Mastering lacquer plant is a total loss*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SoCalWJS, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off





    :shake:
     
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  2. JohnCarter17

    JohnCarter17 Forum Resident

    Location:
    TX
    So, if I read this right, production-wise this will have the biggest impact on the new boutique releases?

    So in 6 months , VMP will not have new product, or a greatly curtailed amount. Which means they will get into repressing stuff that sold out, after rights are taken care of, etc.
     
  3. challenge

    challenge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    Agree I sell lubricants to Manufacturing facilities. All I can say is this is definitely be moved out of California no chance they can rebuild there so the company will have to move. And without knowing the type of equipment it might not be allowed anywhere here in the states or else it would have already been done.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
    nosliw and DRM like this.
  4. challenge

    challenge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    They are learning a hard lesson at this moment with their facilities being shut down because of the coronavirus in China. This is absolute terrible timing for this to happen to Apollo because of all of that going on also.
     
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  5. challenge

    challenge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    That's the number one company who I thought this would effect VMP I don't see how they can exist with this which sucks I was really impressed with what they were starting to do quality wise.
     
  6. Chee

    Chee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver
    The cost to rebuild will be so high it will make no cent$ to do so with the amount of orders for vinyl units. This is really interesting. I wonder what SH thinks about this thought. Insurance dictates I guess. A lot of workers are headed to the Morongo down the highway now.
     
  7. jason202

    jason202 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    That would be interesting. There are lots of records that have been reissued over the past couple decades that are again out of print. It would be a good way to keep pressing plants running before lacquer production is restored. Maybe we'll see new color variations, etc.
     
  8. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

  9. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

  10. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    This is not an unfamiliar threat to once-dominant technology that is on the wane.

    Analog film manufacturing has been barely hanging on in recent years. There are barely a handful of film manufacturers in the world now, if that. Eastman Kodak, Fuji and Ilford in the U.K. being the largest legacy manufacturers left.

    However, they all heavily rely on one key supplier, Tetenal, to produce their most important chemistry. No Tetenal, no film processing.
    A Closer Look at Tetenal, A Photo Firm That's Too Important to Fail

    Not sure how this shook out since last year. I read elsewhere that Kodak had mothballed factories in Europe they could've possibly reopened.

    Maybe, just maybe, there's a dormant lacquer plating plant somewhere in the world that can be conceivably reopened or contain enough equipment to move and install. But right now things seem dire.

    The only format I buy new music on is vinyl, and it's been that way for me for at least a decade. This sucks, it's a gut punch to me.

    dan c
     
  11. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Yeah, California is probably the most manufacturing-hostile state in the country. It's hard to imagine they could reopen there. I imagine the reason there weren't more plants doing the same thing, though, was that the one plant was sufficient to supply everyone. There wasn't enough business to support two plants. But you do need one. So they can probably open a plant again--just, probably, not in California.
     
  12. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Back to CDs fellas !:D
     
  13. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Very informative.

    Been there. Done that. I’ve been back to analog cassettes since 2014.
     
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  14. hammr7

    hammr7 Forum Resident

    In terms of rebuild cost, Apollo will need to see where their market goes, and how much revenue they can reclaim. I estimate that as much as 90% of their current market could disappear by the time they are again able to offer product.

    Currently, it appears that most lacquer disks go to minimal and single use applications. This includes the thriving group of Lathe owners who cut masters as a hobby and for friends, as well as the custom single market at mastering studios that includes DJs and the like. It goes to the smallest bands who cut ego and publicity vinyl. The hobby types may simply stop cutting until the uncertainty subsides. The DJ types may be forced to go digital or go to an alternative analog technology, like reel to reel (tough to scratch, however). Bands on shoestring budgets will simply drop the vinyl option.

    It was recently announced that vinyl sales hit ~ 19 million units last year. If you assume that about half was "newer" releases (either remix or brand new), and the average pressing of these newer releases was 1,000 (much more for classics and top talent, as few as 100-200 for small bands), then you are talking a universe of ~ 10,000 clean masters. Even if you assume 10 bad masters for every good master (extremely conservative for the best lathe and plating operations) that gives you a sales potential of ~ 100,000 blanks per year.

    At $45 per blank you have an annual retail sales potential of < $5 million. Even if the real market is twice as big (lots of small bands selling direct at shows) you are talking a pretty small revenue stream. And remember Apollo often receives only a portion of that retail sales amount.

    Apollo/Transco also had a number of other products, including styli used in cutting lathes. This is another niche market that is critical for new vinyl but that also has minimal annual sales. We may be talking a few thousand units per year with a price of less than $100 per stylus.

    Can Apollo or someone else rebuild? Sure! Can they make money from it if they are starting from scratch, against other technologies that will try to take competitive advantage? That is the big unanswered question.
     
  15. Kardiaclp

    Kardiaclp Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Glad nobody was hurt....

    As somebody who listens to music almost solely on vinyl, this is stressing me out. I have a hard time believing that one fire could completely kill an industry that’s thriving (yes for a niche industry, but not THAT niche), but on the other hand I also don’t know nearly enough to really understand the issue.

    Part of me can’t help but worry for the worst...it’s a threat to my favorite hobby.

    Hopefully we’ll have a better sense of the impact sooner rather than later...
     
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  16. challenge

    challenge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    At the same time I'm grateful for the revival of the last 15 years so most of us could build the library we wanted
     
    Jrr, SamS, Experiencereunited and 2 others like this.
  17. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
  18. VinylDeParis

    VinylDeParis Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Paris
    First post here. This news has certainly shaken up the vinyl world to its core. The most important is that no one was physically hurt or injured in the blaze.
    It goes to show how sensitive he industry is due to the fact that it relies heavily on old technologies (from blank making to old tech presses). Reading through the posts here I get the impression that the hardest impact will be felt in USA. US based pressing plants and cutting studios who supplied themselves with Apollo/Transco blanks , as well as some limited impact over in Europe.

    As mentioned a fait bit in this thread, big plants like GZ do DMM cuts as well as Celebrate Records in Germany. I also get the impression that DMM is not very popular on the US market in comparison to over in Europe. These plants are already operating at almost full capacity and with this event they are certainly getting a rush of requests that they will likely not be able to fulfill. American labels will be looking to European plants in the short term (at least until a good solution is found stateside) and the importance now is not to shut doors, raise prices or minimums in haste (which would do more harm than good at the moment).

    In the interest of information and opportunity sharing for those who will be affected by this. We are happy to welcome any new inquiries at Vinyl De Paris for anyone looking to find a new pressing solution. We have plenty of available capacity, no lacquer blank stock issues (no DMM either) and are equipped to serve clients in English (not to mention quick turn times and availability of short runs from 100pcs). Prices are not increasing either. This is the only way the industry will be able to pull through until a new blank maker appears on the scene.

    Check us out on Vinyl De Paris - Your vinyl record pressing plant and send us any inquiries. All are welcome.
     
  19. fretter

    fretter Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    There's a new micro factory in Philly making vinyl records
     
  20. krimson

    krimson Forum Resident

    So should I be selling all my vinyl and turntable now?
     
  21. Zapruder

    Zapruder Just zis guy, you know?

    Location:
    Ames, IA
    Not for long.
     
  22. tinnox

    tinnox Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Not good, was discussing this at my local yesterday.
     
    dee likes this.
  23. If.. If.. If..

    So, you don't have any solid info on this? If the plating does exist, what is the condition of it? If the lacquers exist, what is the condition? This specific example of the Zep Classics can be applied to all previously pressed vinyl. If we don't know for sure, we're just speculating.
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Some of you seem to have no idea what a lacquer acetate is or what it does. Quickly, in the 78 RPM days, it was beeswax that the stylus cut in to. Later, a soft nitrocellulose chemical compound, first on Glass (during WWII to save on metal), and then on aluminium.

    Engineers like fresh lacquers because they degrade over time. So, when a "perfect" looking lacquer is chosen by the cutting engineer and the music is cut onto the surface, it's time for plating. The lacquer (as quickly as possible, the grooves start to degrade almost immed.) is rotated and a thin film of silver is sputtered onto it. This makes possible the building up of the metal master, mother, stamper and so on. The lacquer is then useless, tossed.

    See? It has one crucial job, is plated and then dumped. If there is a goof in metal plating a NEW lacquer has to be cut.

    So the lacquer is a fragile but important part of the disk making process. Without it, you can't make a record unless you cut directly into the metal (DMM) and we don't love that in the biz (for the most part).

    It's beyond crazy that only one plant was making lacquers. That dude in Japan is a one man operation and is totally backlogged, pointless for anyone to get anything out of him at this point. That is it in the world. A dam silly situation.
     
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  25. What are the environmental concerns involving their business ? Not being facetious, I don't know what chems are involved.

    IF I'm looking at the correct building on google maps, there seems to be little or no specialized air handling / waste collection / waste treatment at the building. I can't determine what that small stack at the back of the building is for though. Smoke detection was probably minimal if they had any ...

    Google Maps
     
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