Vinyl records now in crisis: Apollo Transco Mastering lacquer plant is a total loss*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SoCalWJS, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. biggysteve

    biggysteve Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego
    Precisely. These are all questions which ultimately should directed toward the manufacturer of the title(s) you are interested. It’s not criminal to speculate. My language was not ambiguous about this.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Opps, forgot something. It was frustrating (before the fire) that there was only one plant in the world for 98% of cutting lacquers; I've heard countless engineers bitch about the fact. And when a batch was bad, the cutting engineers had to return to the factory for replacements, complaining that there was nowhere else to turn, held captive by only one plant. But lacquer plant workings aren't sexy and no one in our business seemed to want to improve on the situation by creating an alternate source..

    I am sure that everyone is in panic mode now and that is the truth.
     
  3. Come on Jack White .....
     
  4. John

    John Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast
    Maybe Mr Kassem will step in. He built a pretty impressive pressing plant not too long ago.
     
  5. Kardiaclp

    Kardiaclp Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    ...sometimes “panic mode” can push people to make things better, in the long run. At least, that’s my hope...

    Have no idea what the short term impact will be, but this is crazy.
     
  6. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I read that Music Matters and Tone Poets have been getting their lacquers created from a company in Japan. How many companies in the world do this?
     
  7. jfine

    jfine Forum Resident

    Like me. So help out here, a guy like Kevin G. buys a blank lacquer, inspects it, then cuts music into it, then sends it off to be silver sputtered, or does he do that part too? If he sends it off for that part, then it degrades a bit in the mail? So the problem for a guy like him is he now has a problem obtaining fresh blank lacquers?
     
  8. hammr7

    hammr7 Forum Resident

    I will admit to not being knowledgeable about the latest-and-greatest lacquer formulations used by Apollo. But if their top of the line blanks were still made from nitrocellulose then a rebuild in the US may be difficult. Nitrocellulose used to be utilized in a ton of industrial applications. But nitrocellulose is extremely flammable on its own. In addition, it usually requires the use of organic solvents to make the necessary application solutions / suspensions / emulsions. In other words, nitrocellulose doesn't do well in water-based systems. It was phased out of most large applications because of the dangers presented in production facilities. Maybe Apollo was able to change all their formulations to water-based alternatives. But if they were small enough users to get grandfathered in as a small point-source emitter maybe not. Its always easier to stay with successful product formulations.

    Between the Clean Air Act and Hazardous Material regulations any "new facility" that wants to play with nitrocellulose dissolved in solvents will have their hands full with permitting and local PR. Its not impossible, but they will need to be creative and persuasive in areas beyond their current expertise. Years ago I had a similar challenge in New England with an industrial facility that handled nitrocellulose. As an Environmental Engineer I was able to make it work but had to jump through a number of hoops.
     
  9. Chee

    Chee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver
    Yeah, Jack White to the rescue.
     
    Soundslave likes this.
  10. John

    John Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast
    Sounds like you are doing fine. Kevin would sent the lacquer off and typically the silvering would be done at the pressing plant. Think QRP does that for one. Yup just checked their website and they employ Mr Gary Salstrom to handle the plating process.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  11. sons of nothing

    sons of nothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
    This is heavy.

    So the short term solutions would be to use bee's wax, or glass. How good would a modern cut sound using bee's wax, or glass.

    Are there other substances that can be used? Now is the time for experimentation.
     
  12. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    Just in case anyone needs a visual aid. I wonder what that Romeo and Juliet record goes for these days.



    P.S. Hey! I picked up that Glen Miller Army Air Force Band set yesterday at The Salvation Army.
     
  13. IF I'm looking at the right building on google maps, it seems they have little / no environmental controls..
     
  14. lightbulb

    lightbulb Not the Brightest of the Bunch

    Location:
    Smogville CA USA
    Perhaps these posts should be made “sticky” within this “sticky” thread
     
    TonyCzar likes this.
  15. PineBark

    PineBark formerly known as BackScratcher

    Location:
    Boston area
    The late Paul Allen (Microsoft co-founder) was a renowned rock music aficionado. Perhaps his estate would consider investing in a rebuild of the plant.
     
  16. violarules

    violarules Senior Member

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I don't think records were literally cut into a plate of glass, I believe it was used as the substrate, as aluminum is now.
     
    bloodlemons and Walter H like this.
  17. Audiowannabee

    Audiowannabee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Sad day for vinyl enthusiasts...im a disc cd sacd spinner...but anything bad for physical media brings tears to the eyes...i haven't had a turntable in like like 30 years...im not a streamer n love physical media...still have a small collection of records from decades ago

    The only streaming done here is in the bathroom

    Sad times :(
     
    art likes this.
  18. sons of nothing

    sons of nothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois

    I know. I meant before it was plated. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  19. Unlikely as the estate got rid of Stratolaunch last year, another important interest of his.
     
    JohnCarter17 likes this.
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    FWTW, nitrocellulose burns. The purple thread sucked out of the lacquer as the music is being cut (and the groove is being formed) is collected in a bag under the lathe. For kicks (and boredom) we sometimes lit it on fire (outside, of course). Ka-boom.. So, imagine the entire plant just going up like newspaper under a match. I'm only surprised it hadn't happened many times before.. The sucked out lacquer thread unlit looks like purple pubic hair. Without the lathe suction it can really gum everything up quickly.
     
  21. challenge

    challenge Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri
    Thanks this is what had me thinking there was only one place that was grandfathered in. It will be a total pain of red tape and cost to get another place open here in the states. Somebody would have already built another place if this wasn't the case.
     
  22. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    What is the price (or was) of one lacquer blank for a 12" release, and a 7" release, and 10" release?
    Have no alternate materials been considered and tested? I am getting some ideas.
     
    OldMusicOnVinyl1 likes this.
  23. rischa

    rischa Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mt. Horeb, WI
    Being that flammable, I'm surprised it's legal to send through mail.
     
  24. Partyslammer

    Partyslammer Lord Of The New Church

    Much of those objects in the outside "back yard" area are (or were) 50 gallon steel drums of highly toxic, flammable chemicals.
     
  25. 56GoldTop

    56GoldTop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nowhere, Ok
    If this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and record sellers pre-owned or new use this as an opportunistic moment to ratchet up prices... they will lose all of my business. The thousands of records I already own will do me just fine. I don't hate other formats. I will buy something else or even nothing.

    Having said that, I will whole-heartedly support any logical, well thought out, responsible effort to resolve this (massive) issue with my hard earned dollars. As has been said there are a lot of people's livelihood on the line here as well as our beloved hobby. It behooves everyone in the chain to get actively involved. I'd put Chad, Steve, Peter L., the guys at MusicDirect/Mofi, Fremer, the owners of all current pressing plants, etc. in a hotel room with a bunch of cell phones. It's go time. Establish a plan, rake in funds from investors down to donating consumers and get it done. (Simplistic; but, you know what I mean.)

    But, above all, squelch all this negativity crap. I heard that back in the 90's when damn near no store in the US was selling new vinyl and the thought of a revival was laughable. There's not a whole lot that isn't possible in 2020. It's just time to get to work. Who's willing to step up is the question.
     
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