Vinyl records now in crisis: Apollo Transco Mastering lacquer plant is a total loss*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SoCalWJS, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

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    We're counting on you. Thanks.
     
    ruemirasundae, art, 56GoldTop and 3 others like this.
  2. Partyslammer

    Partyslammer Lord Of The New Church

    It's not just the material, the lacquer blanks themselves that are now in short supply, it's also the very specialized machinery to make those blanks.
     
  3. Freezerburn

    Freezerburn Spendin' Monopoly Money

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    Pennsylvania USA
    CDs will make a resurgence. Not right away, maybe in 3 to 5 years.
    Nail in the coffin for the vinyl renaissance.
     
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  4. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

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    Everyone here should watch the first half of this video to get a better understanding of the lacquer manufacturing process



    I believe this footage was filmed in Transco’s manufacturing facility, before they were acquired by Apollo
     
  5. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    If you are considering it that way. What companies might already have machinery in place which could be adjusted to make disc blanks using some acceptable workable material that is not lacquer, or even lacquer? As noted above, Kodak, Fuji, Ilford, and also Ferrania in Italy. Possibly the Impossible Project Polaroid film plant. These just for a start.
    There is a world between lacquer cuts and DMM that it seems nobody has considered.
     
  6. jason202

    jason202 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    A solid, stable material like that is probably okay with USPS. It's flammable liquids that typically have to go through a courier like UPS.

    I'm guessing something like a mastering lacquer would be overnighted via FedEx.
     
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  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

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    Watch ALL of it.
     
  8. I was directing these questions towards the poster who brought it up.
     
  9. segue

    segue Psychoacoustic Member

    Location:
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    .
    Direct metal mastering - Wikipedia
    interesting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
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  10. TonyCzar

    TonyCzar Forum Resident

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    One can really see the purply color.
     
  11. CRJ

    CRJ Ski Patrol

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    Blocked for me in the UK on copyright grounds.
     
    tin ears likes this.
  12. alarickc

    alarickc Vinylholic

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    Shaker Heights, OH
    I assume this is a headache that will take a year or two to sort, but I don't see it as remotely insurmountable. For Peet's sake, people have recently restarted photo-film factories from scratch, which is an immensely more difficult industrial process. What's it take to make a lacquer anyways?! An aluminum disk (could be ordered out of house) and a machine to evenly apply acetate. That's one industrial manufacturing machine to be designed. Vinyl is a half-billion dollar industry globally and growing. Somebody will pay a team of industrial-process engineers a couple million to get a new production line up, there's just too much money involved now.
     
  13. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

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    This one seems to be an official How It’s Made upload, so I’m guessing probably much better quality than the one I posted upthread, but it seems to be blocked here in the US due to copyright. Maybe it’s more suitable for users elsewhere in the world though.

     
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  14. TonyCzar

    TonyCzar Forum Resident

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    PhIladelphia, PA
    OMG.

    To think that every last piece of vinyl that's passed through my hands as my own, or shopping, or whatever - craptastic or fantastic - has gone through all of this. I've of course seen vids of the process over the years, but obviously, I read the news today, oh boy....
     
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  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

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  16. TheHutt

    TheHutt Forum Resident

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    Blocked in Germany as well.
     
  17. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

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    Long Island, NY
    Direct from the science channel website, if you can login with a cable provider. No clue if this is any better for international folks but it’s the best I’ve got


    Chains and Vinyl Records | How It's Made
     
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  18. Musical Chairs

    Musical Chairs Forum Resident

    It was always very risky the degree to which the vinyl revival was being sustained by a pre-revival infrastructure.
     
  19. bluesaddict

    bluesaddict High Tech Welder

    Location:
    Loveland, Colorado
    Yes, this vid is well worth watching. Some folks who spin records (vinyl) don't know how they are made. I've been to Salina, Kansas many time for the blues shows that Acoustic Sounds did for many years. On Saturday you could take a tour of Quality Records and see the whole process from start to finish. It was a big learning experience for me and a lot of fun to chat with the floks that were pressing the records.
     
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  20. domesticmachine

    domesticmachine Resident Forum

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    How long does the lacquer last once cut and are there issues with reusing them?

    I’ve seen comments saying that this ultimately means no new records unless they use DMM which is already overwhelmed and affects the overall dynamics of a recording. I get that but are there implications for repressing LPs? How often does an audiophile or high quality press reuse lacquers? Are there potential issues in reissuing them?
     
  21. CRJ

    CRJ Ski Patrol

    Location:
    East Devon
    Thanks.
    I did go to Youtube and searched myself. There are a number of similar videos.
     
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  22. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    There is no reusing lacquers. They’re chucked into a big bin after plating. I’ve been fortunate enough to step foot in an electroplating facility and see this firsthand once in my life. Totally filled to the top with used lacquers. Amazing sight... and smell.

    The lacquer should be plated sooner rather than later or the sound quality will degrade, the cut groove does not want to keep its shape for long. Sometimes referred to as the “springback effect”. The high frequencies will be the first to go. They’re typically FedEx’d overnight if the mastering studio isn’t in close proximity to an electroplating facility (most aren’t)


    One several plating stages have taken place you can form stampers, and even several sets of metal mothers from which to form stampers, but the metal parts can only withstand so much usage. In which case, you’ll cut a new set of lacquers and start all over again... unless you can’t, and here we are.



    You’ll be seeing a lot of repressings for the foreseeable future, and likely not much else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  23. Not arguing with you but I see little in the backyard. I don't see see a water flow bell on the outside of this building so maybe it wasn't even sprinklered ? Can't be though ??

    Google Maps
     
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  24. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Honestly don’t think any sort of sprinkler system would be able to put out a nitrocellulose fire… it’d be like taking a leak in a furnace


    Y’all have heard of nitrate film, right? Basically the same stuff, different form.


    I believe vaults holding nitrate film elements have systems in place that quickly suck the oxygen out of the environment (or something to that effect) in the event of a fire, but don’t quote me on that.
     
  25. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    No way. Just glad I rebuilt my vinyl collection and have pretty much everything I want after making that mistake years ago! Will miss getting new releases on vinyl once the lacquers run out. I imagine we’ll have to adjust and be okay with buying DMM pressings going forward. My bet is they are working furiously to increase capacity. Can’t imagine the record companies will just abandon it because DMM may not be as good. We forget sometimes that we are a very small group and most people could care less what their music sounds like.
     
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