Can MOFI sleeves damage the record?

Yep!

 

Yep! One of the problems with this, a record was not meant to be sealed for "centuries".. the wrapper was intended only to protect the cover in the retail bins, you take it home and open it. The vinyl can be too fresh when packed and outgas VOC's which isn't the fault if the inner sleeve. The record may survive the weeks or months sealed, but not for decades. Because of trapped VOC's the sealed record can essentially damage itself in any type of inner. I've opened sealed records in pristine condition, others badly etched... a host of other defects, pressure dings, warps, etc.

I believe some inners can be blamed, such as high acid paper, and certain plastic compounds. The bad paper inners seem to be mostly from the 60's -70's. The round corner inners from the 80's were "sucky" sleeves, but I've never seen an unsealed record damaged by these.

 

I bought a new sealed Aftermath on Abkco around 1999 and opened it to find lots of marks from the paper sleeve.

 

The only thing to worry about is it creating hairlines from dirt on the record or in the sleeve.

 

Even though, those hairlines will never be audible, will they ?

 

Depends, some Vinyl from the 60s for example, is really tough. I dunno if its because the grooves are deeper, of the vinyl just stronger, but they can look really scuffed and scratched, but still play very nice. 70s and up till current day releases seem more prone to making noise from smaller damages though, except for Japanese JVC pressings and UK pressings because they again likely have stronger vinyl.

Best thing to do, is separate the flaps of your inners before removing the vinyl. not just sliding it out. With no sliding it only touches air and wont even get a slightest hairline.

 

The marks and other damage often happen as part of manufacture. I have received many, brand new, sealed records in poly-lined or plain paper inner sleeves which have faint marks or deep scratches. If you watch the many different videos of records being manufactured, you might note seeing three things:
1). As records are released from a press, they slide down onto a stack of previously pressed records.
2). Those stacks of records are they taken to a worker who slides each one off of the stack and into an inner sleeve(usually wearing cloth gloves, but never changing them or taking them off until their shift is done).
3). The sleeved records are then taken to another worker who puts them in the outer covers.

One thing I've noticed is when I have received a damaged record and I exchange it, and I have done this several times with the same release, each record has the same damage. Each record probably came off the same press and was handled by the same workers on a particular shift. The type of damage can vary, indicating a different press and/or a different shift and/or a different stamper.
Several years ago, I bought a copy of "Star Wars-The Force Awakens" and exchanged it 3 times. All issues involved Side B of record 1. The first had a defect causing a pop on the first track. The second had a deep scratch at the beginning of the first track. The third was pressed off-center on the same side. Side A of record 1 never had an issue. As this was a high-volume release, I am sure that it was pressed using multiple stampers on multiple presses during more than one shift.

Records can be defective and/or damaged no matter how they are packaged or who presses them. I have seen this with thousands of records over decades. I have particularly had many problems with records pressed by QRP. I believe that most, if not all of their pressings come in poly-lined inner-sleeves. Their own Analogue Productions/ Acoustic Sounds releases come in custom inner-sleeves similar to what Mofi uses. Mofi exclusively uses RTI to press their records, who AP also used before they started up QRP. Speaking with Acoustics Sounds, who sells more than just their own releases, tells me that they have had more defective returns with RTI pressed records than QRP. I think this is BS because of the many records I have which were pressed by RTI, I only had to return one or two. The first, a Classic Records release, had one wrinkled label and with paying a premium price for a record, I refused to accept that. At that point, Classic Records/The Music hand selected every record they sent to me as well as flattening them, if necessary, and at no additional charge. They normally charged $1. U.S. for this service, which I would be glad to pay. I had one Mofi release which was damaged in transit.
On the other hand, I have had problems with more than half the records which were pressed by QRP. The latest was their pressing of The Beatles "White Album". There were some off-center issues, but the particular problem common to all 4 I received was that record 1 had an edge warp, and to varying degrees amongst the different copies. They told me that I was the only one who had these problems, which I knew was pure BS. Both on these Steve Hoffman Forums and Discogs, I found many others who had the same exact problems. In addition, there was a local chain record store which had sold at least 20 copies and got every one back. They would no longer carry the QRP pressed version and was attempting to get the German Optimal Media pressed versions instead. To U.S. buyers, the only way to get the Optimal version was in the 4LP boxed set. Both QRP and Optimal put the records in the poly-lined black paper sleeves. All records had marks on their surfaces. Aside from the Optimal rumble, those were better than the QRP version.

 

Great research over time and
i can well believe it all.
I am aware of a particular original pressing fron one facility that often seemed to have a heat rash/mark on theach vinyl.
My belief is they were bagged too quickly and were too warm.
I mainly buy used vinyl thankfully as it sounds like new US Vinyl can be at times a lottery.

 

Good post.

Are all pressings of the 4 LP set from Optimal in Germany?

 

As far as I know. Here is the only listing at discogs: The Beatles - The Beatles And Esher Demos

 

When records are pressed, they go through a cooling cycle before they are released from the press. They then are trimmed and slide down onto a spindle of a stack of records. Sometimes I think the cooling cycle is too short and that not only causes the edge warps but also a wavy playing surface. When styrene records were cooled too quickly they developed surface cracks through the playing surface, but were flat and those cracks were not audible.
Buying used records can be risky. You don't know how they were treated before you got them. They can look perfect but may have a lot of surface noise . I have an original pressing of the "Casino Royale" movie soundtrack album on the Colgems label. It looks perfect but has lots of surface noise. Multiple cleanings haven't helped.
Older records often sound better than the audiophile re-issues to me sometimes. The earlier U.S. records of the 1960's were thicker than those of the 1970's onward. It's hard to beat an RCA Victor "Living Stereo" or "Red Seal" originals.
We have a growing number of record pressing facilities in North America. The 'old timers' are Rainbo and United, with others not so old but have been around a long time like RTI. There are new kids on the block like QRP, which lacks experience and uses old worn equipment. One of the newest is Precision in Canada. They are under the umbrella of GZ but the plant is new and uses brand new state-of-the-art equipment. I've been relatively happy with records pressed by them.

 

Wow this thread is either full of trolls or very paranoid folks. Records just aren't that fragile. I don't buy that they are being scratched by uncontaminated MOFI sleeves.

 

There is not 1 set toughness to records. Different ones are more fragile than others.
And you better believe they can create visual scratches, if they are audible or not is another question.

 

Wispy MOFI sleeve marks can actually be read by fortune tellers palm readers.

 

I wouldn't think that there is anyone here who is paranoid nor are there trolls.
Yes. Records are fragile. Over the many years, records have been made of a few different materials. ALL can be scratched, broken, cracked or damaged in any number of ways.
When records are shipped, often the packages have warnings on them, here are some examples: "Fragile", "Do Not Bend", "Keep Away From Heat", etc.
ALL records can be scratched during manufacture or handling.
Records are NOT usually damaged by ANY uncontaminated covering.
Modern records are made of a synthetic plastic, known as vinyl. As with most any plastic, it is susceptible to static electricity. Static electricity draws contaminants from surfaces and air.
Sliding anything contaminated across or through anything which comes into physical contact can cause damage.
Being that both records and Mofi inner sleeves are made of plastic, sliding a record in and out of one creates static electricity.
Again, static electricity draws in contaminants. Contaminants create damage.
As for someone who believes in going to the source, rather than bitching and moaning like a bunch of old hens, I have contacted Mofi directly and they affirmed my concerns.
I suggest you go to the source.

 

Quality Records and Sleeve City make basically the same sleeves as MOFI. Plastic on one side of the disc and paper covered in plastic on the other side of the disc. But its the MOFI sleeves being taken to task here.

If one is bad, they are all bad.

My opinion is that none of them are bad. I have sleeves from all 3 and they all perform the same - very well.

 

Has anyone got a good answer as to why a lot of their record sleeves create oily lines that cannot be cleaned off, maybe this has been answered in previous posts but I have just started going through my collection and have found 90 percent of my 400 plus records have these almost like hair lines which look like small lines that have come from the sleeves... they seem to have more damage on the paper side.
I have taken great pride in storage and keeping them in pristine shape and now this has occurred... it's a real bummer to say the least.

 

To the OP's original question.
I sure hope not or I am done for.

 

Try plastic lined paper sleeves is my suggestion.

 

I support this motion.
Will save you a few quid too if buying bulk and you can buy a couple of records with the savings.
I use lined paper sleeves and buy in mutiples of 200 per time.
Have resleeved over 1000 washed LPs and have zero static or liner induced defect problems.

 

What is your process for treating for static electricity? Thanks

 

If those records were in plastic lined inner sleeves, it's a combination of the plastic breaking down and humidity. Paper sleeves are best.

 

I noticed that when I got a new record, and it was in one of those lined sleeves, the record would be charged with static electricity making it difficult to remove the record.
I live in a semi-arid climate and when it is really dry, static electricity is easy to create. Sliding a record in and out of a lined inner sleeve, like Mofi sells, generates static electricity.
I contacted Mofi about this and they agreed that in my climate their inner sleeves could be troublesome.
Now, here's the danger of using these lined inner sleeves. Dust and dirt is attracted to anything charged with static electricity. Eventhough a record is clean, contaminants are attracted to the linings of the inner sleeves, so a record can be scratched sliding it in and out.
In a warm and humid climate, records can sweat inside the lined sleeves and creates patterns on the records which can't be cleaned off.
Wet cleaning a record will neutralize static electricity, but if your RCM has a vacuum, over-vacuuming can put the static electricity right back.
The friction of the stylus running through the grooves also creates static electricity. Even with a wet-cleaned and static free record will be charged by the time the record is over. If you just let the record sit on the TT for awhile, dust will be attracted to it, even during playing. This is why you might find dust on your stylus when it is playing a record which has been cleaned.
I use a ZeroStat gun on the records that have been charged. I'll play one side and after I turn the record over I use the ZeroStat gun on it.

 

No.

 

Been using Mofi sleeves for ten years never seen or had any of the issues in this thread...is it luck...? Dunno....seems odd