Jeff Barry began to lose interest in The Archies in 1970. That the Latin Rock-flavored "Sunshine", his most ambitious Archies track to date, stalled on the charts probably had something to do with it. Barry was also involved in a very large number of projects that year, among them: His own record label, Steed; another cartoon group, The Harlem Globetrotters; a Ringling Brothers/Barnum and Bailey-sponsored Rock group called The Klowns, a new album for The Monkees, a stage production called The Dirtiest Show In Town and solo albums for Bobby Bloom, Robin McNamara and Ron Dante. At any rate, the third season of the Archie cartoon series featured very little of his production work. Neil Brian Goldberg wrote and produced nearly all the songs heard on "Archie's Funhouse". Even though Don Kirshner published these Archies songs, he declined to release most of them on his record label, a huge disappointment for the songwriter and for Archies fans. Goldberg also suffered the indignity of having his productions credited to Jeff Barry, and furthermore states that royalties have been few and far-between. Relatively little is known about his "Funhouse" recording sessions, of which he has few memories. They were held at New York's Sound Ideas Studios, the site of many Jazz dates. Anyone with pertinent information, your contributions are appreciated! The Archies featuring RON DANTE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged and Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio B New York City January 26, 1970* ZYB1- 4816 Who's Your Baby? (Jeff Barry-Andy Kim) duet vocal by DONNA MARIE cameo vocal by JEFF BARRY backing vocals by BOBBY BLOOM, LESLIE MILLER, SUSAN MORSE and MAERETHA STEWART *"Who's Your Baby?" was recorded for and featured on a prime time TV special called "The Archie/Sugar, Sugar/Jingle Jangle Show", which aired on 20 March 1970. Coupled with "Señorita Rita", it was also issued as The Archies' fifth single. The single and telecast versions differ slightly. RON DANTE reports that numerous takes of "Who's Your Baby?" exist; a stereo mix has never been released. The song appeared on the 1970 Kirshner Records album The Archies' Greatest Hits. DONNA MARIE had previously recorded singles for Columbia and Gateway Records. The late BOBBY BLOOM scored a massive hit with "Montego Bay"(produced by JEFF BARRY) and co-wrote "Mony Mony" with TOMMY JAMES. Background singer SUSAN MORSE was in the original Broadway cast of the rock musical Hair. Both LESLIE MILLER and MAERETHA STEWART were much-in-demand background vocalists of the 1960s and '70s. Ron Dante A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged by RON FRANGIPANE Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio C New York City May 1970* ZYB1- 5719 How Do You Know? (Jeff Barry-Andy Kim) ZYB1- 5720 Let Me Bring You Up (Jeff Barry-Andy Kim) *This session produced RON DANTE'S first solo single for the Kirshner label, mixed and released in monaural sound. Rare promo copies of "Let Me Bring You Up" b/w "How Do You Know?" feature a mix that differs from the commercial release. Both songs appeared in stereo on the 1970 Kirshner Records album Ron Dante Brings You Up. The Archies featuring RON DANTE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged by RON FRANGIPANE Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio C New York City May 1970* ZYB1- 5745 Waldo P. Emerson-Jones (Jeff Barry-Andy Kim) This song was covered by UK Pop group Pickettywitch. ZYB1- 5746 It's The Summertime (Jeff Barry-Andy Kim) ZYB1- 5747 A Summer Prayer For Peace (Jeff Barry) duet vocal by JEFF BARRY ZYB1 - 5748 Sunshine (Jeff Barry-Bobby Bloom) cameo vocal by BOBBY BLOOM Every song listed appeared on the 1970 Kirshner Records album Sunshine. This was the last session at which JEFF BARRY cut soundtrack material for the cartoon series. BOBBY BLOOM sings background and plays percussion (possibly piano as well). The single recorded at this session and the next, "Sunshine" b/w "Over And Over", was edited down to a shorter playing time and mixed to mono. Except for promo copies, it was the last Archies single released in monaural sound. In early 1971, another single would be pulled from this date: "A Summer Prayer For Peace", whose North-American flipside was the RITCHIE ADAMS/RON DANTE production "Maybe I'm Wrong." In South Africa and several Scandinavian countries, "Summer Prayer" was a chart-topper. The Archies featuring RON DANTE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged and Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN and ART POLHEMUS Recorded at The Hit Factory New York City May 1970* ZYB1- 5775 Over And Over (Jeff Barry-Ron Dante) *"Over And Over" appeared on the 1970 Kirshner Records album Sunshine. JEFF BARRY was recording BOBBY BLOOM'S debut album at the Hit Factory around this time, and this Archies session may have been booked there for convenience's sake. All instruments are performed by Jeff Barry and Ron Dante. Ron Dante A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged by RON FRANGIPANE Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio C New York City May/June 1970* ZYB1- 5784 Lovin' Lady (Ron Dante-Richard Kim Milford) ZYB1- 5785 Sweet Taste Of Love (Jamie Carr-Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5786 Go Where The Music Takes You (Ron Dante-Howie Greenfield) ZYB1- 5787 Games (Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5788 A Million Voices (Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5789 Muddy River Water (Gene Allan-Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5790 Don't Let Love Pass You By (Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5791 Jo Anna (Ron Dante-Richard Kim Milford) ZYB1- 5792 Mister Sun (Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5793 C'mon, Girl (Jamie Carr-Ron Dante) *Occasional RON DANTE co-writers JAMIE CARR and HOWIE GREENFIELD were both former Screen Gems Music writers and associates of DON KIRSHNER. CARR (also known as BILLY CARR) was a singer/songwriter signed to Kirshner Records, and GREENFIELD was the lyricist for many Pop hits dating back to the 1950s. Most of the songs produced by JEFF BARRY for the Harlem Globetrotters (another Kirshner act) were HOWIE GREENFIELD/NEIL SEDAKA compositions. These RON DANTE sessions probably took place over the course of a week. At a later date, "C'mon, Girl" was overdubbed with a string and woodwind arrangement. DANTE supervised the remixing, and the newly orchestrated track was issued as a single. Every song listed appeared on the 1970 Kirshner Records album Ron Dante Brings You Up. Recording information for his debut album appears in this sessionography because it overlapped with the recording of The Archies' Sunshine LP. The Archies featuring RON DANTE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged by RON FRANGIPANE Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio C New York City June 1970* ZYB1- 5902 Who's Gonna Love Me? (Gene Allan-Jeff Barry-Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5903 Suddenly Susan (Gene Allan-Jeff Barry-Ron Dante) ZYB1- 5904 Love And Rock 'n' Roll Music (Gene Allan-Jeff Barry-Ron Dante) *In foreign territories, "Who's Gonna Love Me?" appeared as the flipside of the "Summer Prayer For Peace" single. Every song listed appeared on the 1970 Kirshner Records album Sunshine. The Archies featuring RON DANTE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. A Jeff Barry Enterprises Production Vocal Arrangements by RON DANTE Arranged and Produced by NEIL BRIAN GOLDBERG Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by VINCENT LEARY and MIKE MORAN Recorded at Sound Ideas Studios New York City June 1970* ZYB1- 5936 Mister Factory (Neil Brian Goldberg) ZYB1- 5937 Dance! (Neil Brian Goldberg) ZYB1- 5938 Comes The Sun (Nancy Calcagno Barry-Neil Brian Goldberg) ZYB1- 5939 One Big Family (Nancy Calcagno Barry-Neil Brian Goldberg) *Songs for "Archie's Funhouse", the 1970-71 edition of the cartoon series, were cut at this and subsequent summer sessions. Except for "Oh, Sweet Suzy", an update of the Stephen Foster classic "Oh! Suzannah", every title was arranged, produced and written by NEIL BRIAN GOLDBERG. A one-time Cameo-Parkway recording artist, GOLDBERG was a staff songwriter and producer for JEFF BARRY'S Steed label. The remaining 28 tracks that he produced for The Archies have never been issued commercially, but all 32 can be heard on a DVD box set of "Archie's Funhouse" episodes released by Classic Media in 2008. For more in-depth information see my NEIL BRIAN GOLDBERG profile. Every song listed appeared on the 1970 Kirshner Records album Sunshine; the telecast version of "One Big Family" includes an instrumental break edited out of the album mix. The Archies featuring RON DANTE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged and Produced by JEFF BARRY Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio C New York City August 1970* ZYB1- 5968 Together We Two (Jeff Barry-Andy Kim) duet vocal by DONNA MARIE backing vocals by LESLIE MILLER, MERLE MILLER and SUSAN MORSE *This was the final Archies recording session produced by JEFF BARRY, as well as DONNA MARIE'S last recording with the group to be released (she has stated that others exist). "Together We Two" b/w "Everything's Alright" was the last charting Archies single in the United States. "Together We Two" appeared on the 1971 Kirshner Records album This Is Love. Background singer MERLE MILLER would later become a founding member of BETTE MIDLER'S background vocal group The Harlettes. The Archies featuring RON DANTE with LESLIE MILLER, MERLE MILLER and SUSAN MORSE A & R Supervision for RCA Victor by HERMAN DIAZ, JR. Arranged and Conducted by RITCHIE ADAMS Produced by RITCHIE ADAMS and RON DANTE Executive Producer: DON KIRSHNER Engineered by MIKE MORAN Recorded at RCA Studio C New York City Late 1970* ZYB1- 6465 Don't Need No Bad Girl! (Ritchie Adams-Alan Lee Gordon) ZYB1- 6466 Maybe I'm Wrong (Ritchie Adams) ZYB1- 6467 Easy Guy (Ritchie Adams-Bob Levine) ZYB1- 6468 What Goes On? (Ritchie Adams-Alan Lee Gordon) ZYB1- 6469 Should Anybody Ask (Ritchie Adams-Bob Levine) ZYB1- 6470 Throw A Little Love My Way (Gene Allan-Ron Dante) cameo vocal by MERLE MILLER ZYB1- 6471 Carousel Man (Ron Dante-Rob Gengo) ZYB1- 6472 Hold On To Lovin' (Gene Allan-Ron Dante) *Every song listed appeared on the 1971 Kirshner Records album This Is Love. The late ALAN LEE GORDON co-wrote the Rock 'n' Roll standard "Happy Together" as well as other hits with his regular writing partner GARY BONNER. BOB LEVINE was a sometime member of the Super K stable of Bubblegum Rock writers; he recorded a single for Mercury Records called "Bad Girl". ROB GENGO later co-wrote material for the 1975 cult album Spider Man: Rock Reflections of a Super Hero. Around this time, Ron Dante and Ritchie Adams co-wrote a soul-tinged rocker called "Let's Get It On Today". It would have made a fabulous Archies single, but ended up wasted on the flipside of a forgettable cover of Mac and Katie Kissoon's hit "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep". The 1971 single was credited to The California Gold Rush and released on the Scepter label; Ron Dante, of course, sang lead.
Yes? Yeah, my father was doing SO much between 1969-1972, it's kinda insane. Apart from the albums mentioned, in 1970 he also wrote and recorded a solo album, which is, maybe, my favorite thing he's ever done. Hooky, soulful songs with a Randy Newman lyrical attitude. He decided not to release it for some reason. He probably did 14 other albums that year, as well. Goldberg may be right about production credit (I have no idea - my father isn't the sort to take credit if he didn't earn it, though. He's got enough credits to not have to steal a couple of iffy Archies songs), but my mother is Nancy Calcagno Barry, so at least one of my parents was keeping an eye on Neil. Oh, and sometimes credit stuff is contractual. Your mind would explode if you heard the list of songs that my father actually co-wrote that he was NOT allowed to put his name on for legal/contractual reasons.
Hi JCB, When I interviewed your Dad (1999! Hard to believe it was two decades ago) he told me he couldn't say no to an interesting project. He wanted to do it all and because he was young, he thought he could do it all. But he surely must've been overburdened, and that was another reason he'd have called Neil Brian Goldberg in to assist with The Archies. He told me how frustrated he was getting with the Archies project. I asked him if he ever regretted getting involved and got a very emphatic NO . . . but he was putting some of his best work into The Archies, and the resistance from radio was getting stronger. By 1970, the chart placings had become disappointing. Neil didn't regret being involved either, in fact, he is quite proud of his Archies songs; but he was bitter about the royalty situation over the years. Of course, your father had nothing to do with that!
Thanks for posting this thread. It looks comprehensive and it makes me want to get up my Archies CDs and listen again. Back in the sixties seventies I owned a couple archies records. Everything Archies and Sunshine. Today I own the Archies CD, and Everything Archie's. If I can track them down I'll pick up Jingle jangle, This is love, Sunshine and the Christmas album.
Unless you're keen on vinyl copies, I'd recommend saving money and buying these three releases: Essential Media's "Archies Essentials", a 2CD set that includes all the singles and most of the good album tracks; "The Archies' Christmas Album featuring Betty and Veronica" on Fuel 2000; and "The Archies: The Complete Albums Collection" from a company called Cleopatra music. Five CDs: "The Archies", "Everything's Archie", "Jingle Jangle", "Sunshine" and "This Is Love", but no "Archies' Greatest Hits". That one, you actually might want to pick up on vinyl; I maintain it was one of the best hits collections of the early 1970s. The Archies' master tapes seem to have gone missing, so the sources used on the CDs were best-available. There've been some complaints about sound quality, especially on the box set. For no particular reason, let me link you to an imaginary "comeback" album for The Archies that I assembled as a YouTube playlist. I reckoned I couldn't go wrong choosing all Gerry Goffin-Carole King compositions: An Imaginary ARCHIES Album: SO MUCH LOVE - YouTube
Thank you so much. The two CDs I own are from the Essential Media's catalog. I was hoping to pick up the remainder of those but it's sporadic to find them and their CD packages are so cheap. they say remastered but I can't tell the difference. Anyway I'll check out the titles that you mentioned. Thanks again.
It's always a pleasure to direct people to Ron Dante's work. In addition to being an excellent singer, he's the nicest guy you'd ever want to talk to.
I'll bet. I've met a few people from pop culture back in the sixties and they're always kind sweet generous intelligent amazing people. I think that we are so lucky that we grew up in an age where we still had imagination and we were surrounded by amazing talent as far as artists. Don't get me wrong there was a lot of great stuff in the 50s but it seems like we had the best music, toys, cereals, candy, cartoons, cars, parents and culture. by the seventies it seems like the counterculture was taking over and things were starting to go downhill.
I agree with you 100%. I consider myself fortunate, having been born in 1960. The world just seemed to get progressively more cynical in subsequent decades. But keeping the focus on music: The output of musicians in the Sixties was extraordinary, in every genre you can name.
Ron Frangipane who arranged and played keyboards on some of these songs passed away on April 25 of covid-19 pneumonia, at the age of 75. He was a long time music teacher at Monmouth University. “We both were in a Broadway show called ‘The Freaking Out of Stephanie Blake,’” said Ron Dante, the lead singer on “Sugar, Sugar,” to the USA Today Network. “We were in the band on stage and he and I became instant friends. We formed a jingle company together and wrote and produced commercials for radio and TV. Ron was incredibly talented and a joy to be around. Always positive about everything we did. He was the reason I became lead singer of the Archies. He told me he was playing keyboards for the producers and they needed a lead singer.” Frangipane went on to play with greats like John Lennon, Janis Ian, Diana Ross, Gene Simmons, Grace Slick, Melanie and more. He fronted his own project, too, Ron Frangipane and His Orchestra. “He was an accomplished producer and especially with women artists, Janis Ian and Grace Slick were two of the most notable,” said Mike Appel, Bruce Springsteen's former manager who was also a member of the band Balloon Farm and songwriter for the Partridge Family. “The word on Ron was he was always easy to deal with and had a way of getting the best out of the artists he worked with.”
The music of the 60s was so profound and so well produced and sung I think songs of the 60s had a greater impact then songs from any other era. The Archies music is so light and so direct it's not like you have to experience it you just listen and immediately get the message. A song like sugar sugar had such an impact that it rivals anything The Beatles put out. Unfortunately the Archies are almost completely forgotten, but occasionally there reference in pop culture and who knows they may have a resurgence. until that time I'll just listen to their music and hold a special place in my heart for the music and the times that they represent.
thank you for letting me know I think I'll pull out my artsy CDs tonight and play them in honor of both Ron's.
I know a '70s cover band that includes "Sugar, Sugar" in their set. Unfortunately, they always credit Neil Diamond as the songwriter, despite me having corrected them!
It was painful to find out about this. Ron Frangipane's keyboards were a huge part of Jeff Barry's productions in the late 1960s, not only for The Archies but also Andy Kim, Robin McNamara, The Klowns, The Globetrotters, nearly all the artists on Jeff's Steed Records label and Ron Dante solo recordings. RIP, Mr. F. For years I have tried in vain to properly credit Archies musicians for their session work but I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll never see any of those AFM contracts. At least my 1999 interview with Jeff Barry and more recent conversations with arranger Dean Christopher revealed several names I've been able to share on this forum.
Neil Diamond didn't write "Sugar, Sugar" of course, but there is a connection. It's the sound of the records. That late Sixties Bubblegum Blues sound with Latin/Caribbean seasonings was what the Jeff Barry production style was all about. You hear that sound in everything Jeff produced during that period: Neil Diamond, The Archies, The Monkees, Andy Kim, Bobby Bloom, The Klowns, The Globetrotters, Robin McNamara, Sha Na Na's The Night Is Still Young album, Ron Dante, The Playhouse and all the other Steed Records acts. Jeff's son Jon Colton contributes to this forum sometimes; I'm sure he understands what I'm talking about.
That's a shame - so I take it, you've tried to obtain the AFM contracts but they no longer exist in the New York chapter's files? In the course of my research into the Beach Boys recording sessions, I've managed to have great success obtaining (for a pricey location fee, of course) a huge number of contracts for their sessions from the Los Angeles chapter, although there are some significant gaps in their archives. And, there's a Monkees website sessionography out there with AFM info for their Jeff Barry-produced New York sessions. But, I know from my attempts to obtain contracts for late 1968 Beach Boys NYC overdub sessions (involving arranger Van McCoy) that those particular contracts were disposed of decades ago.
At one time, my dream was to assemble session information for all Jeff Barry productions during the 1960s. Jeff Barry's productions were my introduction to Rock 'n' Roll, and I really I don't think I could've chosen a better path of entry. Less than six degrees of separation separate Jeff and the most important people in '50s and '60s Rock: The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Leiber and Stoller, Don Kirshner, Phil Spector, Jerry Wexler, Bert Berns, Bobby Darin, Connie Francis, Darlene Love. He also has Hollywood connections: Tony Randall, Peter Gallagher, Barry Bostwick, Taylor Hackford and others. If somebody's looking for a music industry figure whose life and accomplishments cry out for a written biography, Jeff Barry is your guy!
Another artist that Jeff Barry worked with was Dusty Springfield. The thread on the album they made together, "Faithful", is closed so I'd like to post some new information about that release here. Dean Christopher, Jeff's brother-in-law and arranger for many of his late '60s productions, was present at Century Sound Studios for the first couple of sessions with Dusty. Here, verbatim, is what he told me in an email dated 4 May 2018: "Thanks for reaching out to me for info on Dusty and her 'Faithful' LP. My memory is quite vague about that project, as it was recorded just before I moved to Paris in early 1971 for three years. I remember doing some charts for Dusty, and particularly sitting around on a break having a cigarette with her. At one point, for no reason, I began to hum the Barber 'Adagio for Strings' and she came in with the second voicing on the violas. The lady knew her classical music also! We became friends and talked occasionally on the phone when she was back in London. She invited me and my wife to come from Paris to visit, but we never got around to it . . . I always called her by her real name, Mary . . . Regarding the album: The only tune that sounds familiar to me after all these years is "Haunted", which Jeff wrote with Bobby Bloom, a fabulously talented singer and songwriter who was murdered (some claim suicide; not likely!) at age 26. I remember that amazing bass line (on "Haunted") by Chuck Rainey. A couple of my colleagues think I arranged that one, but I swear I can't remember. It may have been (my friend) Lee (Holdridge) or the recently-departed Jimmy Wisner, who I'm 95% sure (arranged) a few of the tracks on that album." I also corresponded with Lee Holdridge, who actually put me in touch with Dean. Holdridge confirmed that he wrote charts for Dusty but he couldn't recall which song titles. From Joe Renzetti and his friend Neil Brian Goldberg, I learned that Joe also contributed charts to "Haunted". So while the official release lists no arrangers, we now know that Dean Christopher, Joe Renzetti, Lee Holdridge and Jimmy Wisner worked on the album; and Jeff Barry himself told me that the musicians he used on "Haunted" were the same that he used on Archies sessions. How do you like them apples? This is a delicious tidbit to share with people who like to sneer at Archies recordings. Incidentally, if you recall, when Rhino Records first released the album tracks they had no songwriter credits. I am the one who researched them; I knew who Jeff Barry's writer staff was at the time.
Just to let you know I ordered the Complete Albums Collection. I know about some complaints but I will risk it.
Looking in the liner notes of the most recent Archies reissues, I found some discrepancies RE musicians that need to be corrected. I suspect these names came from a Wikipedia entry: Jimmy Rooney, Kerry Swehla, Harry Amanatian. None of these people had anything to do with Archies recording sessions! Also, Donna Marie's name is omitted; she was the uncredited female vocalist on "Who's Your Baby?" and "Together We Two". In a future posting, I will list names that have been confirmed as taking part in Archies sessions; some you already know, like Hugh McCracken, Chuck Rainey, Gary Chester and Ron Frangipane. On a related note, Ron Dante has stated that there were at least 100 unreleased Archies tracks. I doubt we'll ever hear them, but it would be nice to have a list of titles, wouldn't it?
Just received my package of the Archies Sugar Sugar the complete album collection. I like the package it faithfully reproduces the album's original cardboard sleeves to the vinyl albums. There is also a nice booklet that accompanies the collection. Not a huge fan of CDs in cardboard envelopes though. Not totally impressed by the oversized box containing all the albums either. Not certain how these compared to the essential Media group digital remastered versions. I will play and compare and let you know.
The packaging is really the best thing about that release. I liked what they did with the CD labels, too. But beware of the liner notes, with their inaccurate information about who took part in the recording sessions! Ron Dante, Jeff Barry and Dean Christopher have confirmed that Leslie Miller, Merle Miller, Susan Morse, Bobby Bloom, Andy Kim, Hugh McCracken, Chuck Rainey, Ron Frangipane, Buddy Saltzman and Gary Chester were in the studio; I personally interviewed Donna Marie; and I learned about Joey Macho (also known as Joe Mack) from a 1969 issue of Billboard. We all know about Toni Wine. Fred "Paco" Weinberg helped engineer the music for the 1968-69 TV series. Maeretha Stewart sang background on "Who's Your Baby?" Ellie Greenwich once spoke about dubbing in background vocals with Steve Tudanger, and Joey Levine probably sang some backgrounds; but any other name you see was likely conjured up in somebody's imagination. I, for one, would like to see one final Archies album with Ron Dante on lead. Something to store beside my copy of The Monkees' Good Times album in-between listening sessions.
Supposedly Ron Dante has them or owns the rights to them since his name pops up under "licenced from" in all of the reissues, who knows if they're sitting on the shelves with the RCA master tapes, somebody should check with Sony Music.
I finished listening to the collection and it is a superb recording, accurate reproduction, and it is a really good package overall, however when it comes to CDs it's hard for me to include this with my library because of the odd shape of the package. That is my only detraction from it. I'm thinking of converting it into a chubby box and having an extra CD next to it so I can accommodate five CDs. I will keep the original packaging because it's a wonderful package.