SH Spotlight I'm asked stuff: Favorite mastering engineer, best BOSTON CD, best TRAVELING WILBURYS CD, etc..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It depends on the music. Homework is crucial, long hours. Mastering, if homework is all done, very quick, maybe 1/2 a day.
     
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  2. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    What's your favorite version of The Famous 1938 Carnegie Hall Jazz Concert by Benny Goodman?
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I have two versions on old LP, the original release, the 1957 or so reissue, that's it. Don't really like the sound of them but it is what it is.
     
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  4. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    @Steve Hoffman

    I may regret this question, but did you ever experiment with using noise reduction software/applications back in the day? I assume you didn’t.

    Why did experienced mastering engineers drink the cool aide? Was this mandated by the labels? Did they not know that they were removing the breath of life from the recordings they were mastering by using something like No Noise?

    I’m listening to disc 2 of a 12 CD Wes Montgomery box of all his Riverside recordings. The liner notes mention that noise reduction was used on some of the recordings. I can hear it, especially on the Incredible Jazz Guitar recordings. Didn’t you mention that master is missing?

    I also hear NR on other tracks too. They sound boomy, for lack of a better descriptor. Awful.

    The mastering engineer was Joe Tarantino.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No-Noise was pushed heavily on mastering studios in the middle 1980s when CD's came in. The idea being that the reproduction quality was so crystal clear that stuff like tape hiss would be somehow thought of as defective. Of course, most CD mastering engineers (because they now could) boosted the treble of everything, thereby bringing out the tape hiss of analog recordings like never before. So, they jumped at No-Noise, etc. to hide it, overlooking the terrible side effects of this process. I used it personally on exactly one Creedence song on Bayou Country (the song Graveyard Train, I think) and I think one other song but that is it.

    Heck, Kevin Gray hated noise reduction in his various workplaces so it wasn't even installed. It had to be brought out from the dark and patched in. He had (has) no use for it whatsoever. Once I heard what it did to the music I never was even tempted. That one Creedence song I even regretted (the Analogue Productions version I mastered has no NR on the song.)

    EDIT:

    Ah, wait, I used it on the alternate mix cassette of LOVE "Forever Changes." By that time I knew better and flew to NYC so an expert I know could reduce the noise without any bad effects. Had to, cassettes suck..
     
  6. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Thanks Steve
     
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  7. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    You would think with AI that noise reduction tech would have gotten better - or at least more transparent - by now, although I doubt anybody is spending money developing better noise reduction at this point. At least not in the audio business. Maybe it'll filter in from some other realm...NASA or wherever.
     
  8. Mok

    Mok Has Potential

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Noise reduction is one of the most expanding areas of audio tech in the past few decades! Just look at Izotope's RX suite and others, including CEDAR. What they're doing is like magic for post production. And another field where it's increasingly important is conferencing and livestreaming. Check out How Nvidia's magical RTX Voice app eradicates background noise in calls and videos and Pipeline on Twitter for great examples.

    Of course, tech like this is always vetted in context. I would bet in music mastering it is still not acceptable, but for certain applications, it's wild.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Sadly, in music mastering it is more than acceptable, it is overused.

    Throwbacks like a few of us old timers are in the minority.
     
  10. Kim Olesen

    Kim Olesen Gently weeping guitarist.

    Location:
    Odense Denmark.
    I always wondered why the tape hiss was so loud on Graveyard Train in the first place. It never bothered me but it certainly stands out in that respect, specially considering how extremely well recorded all the CCR stuff is.
     
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  11. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    Do you hold out hope that they will find the Pet Sounds master one day?
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    8 tracks turned full up with treble boost on each. No gain riding whatsoever. Weird. Mixed at RCA-Victor, Hollywood on monitors that obviously had nothing after 8k. They couldn't hear it, we can.
     
  13. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    I saw that! I’m trying to keep that on the down low, who told you?
     
  14. nolazep

    nolazep Burrito Enthusiast

    That's way cool! Did they cite any of your work in particular or was it based on reputation? It would be cool to know what they heard when they thought "we want it to sound like THAT".
     
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No idea. Their record label contacted us and then we spoke directly with John who got us the tapes, approved acetate refs, TP's, etc. He loved the way it came out. Kevin and I also made sure to make a digital version with our wide dynamics. Unreleased but we both have a copy. I play it often.
     
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  16. nolazep

    nolazep Burrito Enthusiast

    That's a great story. Thanks for answering my question faster than I can boil water! :righton:
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Heh.
     
  18. Devin

    Devin Time's Up

    Steve, have you encountered this problem often where it turns out that the monitors used for mixing at the time weren't up to the task and now it's painfully obvious?
     
  19. CraigVC

    CraigVC Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Though I enjoyed early Red Hot Chili Peppers back in the '80s (Freaky Styley, Mother's Milk, etc.), eventually I had lost track of their music, in part because their releases became increasingly so brickwalled and LOUD. I remember buying and quickly selling a couple of their CDs (around the Blood Sugar Sex Magic -> One Hot Minute -> Californication run) because the mastering kept getting worse, before I completely gave up on them.

    But then because it was Hoffman/Gray mastered, I bought the Stadium Arcadium box set last year, and recently listened through all four LPs for the first time. I had put off opening up that box set, because I worried it might be a drudgery, assuming that it would be their music and not the mastering that wouldn't be appealing to me, but I ended up being pulled into the music because it was so dynamic and easy to hear.

    Thanks for presenting at least one of RHCP's albums in a way that is inviting and enjoyable!

    Craig.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Not that often, but several (anything Tom Dowd mixed, Cream, Atlantic, etc.)
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You're welcome!
     
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  22. BwanaBob

    BwanaBob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Hi Steve. First thanks for this forum. I have learned much. Q: I wondered if you were familiar with ELP's Brain Salad Surgery album and if so, and if you've heard any of the plethora of mixes, does anything stand out to you as to why it always sounds muddled. Is it strictly the instrumentation fighting against itself or just low quality source tapes, or what? Thanks.
     
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  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I haven't played it in 30 years (reminds me of an old girlfriend) but my old LP sounded fine back then, that's all I can tell ya!
     
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  24. BwanaBob

    BwanaBob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I agree the LP was fine. It's just that no one seems to get it right digitally.
     
  25. old school

    old school Senior Member

    Tom Dowd was supposed to be one of the best engineers but he wasn’t that great on 1960s rock music or 70s for that matter.
     

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