Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vocalpoint, May 11, 2011.

  1. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    Forgive me, but what's an M/S ?
     
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  2. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    My favoured method in Audacity is to use simple level reduction, or Limiter. Split stereo track in necessary into two tracks, and work on each other separately if the click is biased to one channel or other.
     
  3. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    M/S or Mid/Side is processing of the content between the phantom center and the left and right signals. It's a way of processing problems on each independent channel instead of the whole stereo spectrum.
     
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  4. BendBound

    BendBound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    I do it because I want to hear my albums/music when I take long road trips. My wife and I have an RV, hit the road for a few months during the summer, and we want to listen to what we want to listen to. And I don't want to repurchase the music. So I do this:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From beginning to end, takes me several hours to record, process, and to make the artwork. I can essentially duplicate the actual record label, given my scanner and thousands of fonts. I rebuild the label as close to actual as I care to do. But I enjoy the process. That is key. I like doing it and I like how the CDRs sound.

    The other day, the owner of a car stereo shop comes over. I employ his daughters one a week for several hours of yard work. He wanted to see my two-channel system. Played him a Pat Metheny CD, store bought, then played him a CDR I made of Bobby Hutcherson's Montara (see my recording line in an earlier post in this thread) and the vinyl lp that it came from. He exclaimed—not just said—"Wow, it has all the sweetness and depth of vinyl...did not know you could do that. I could tell immediately." That lp was only released in the US on CD in 2003.

    He is not the only one. A friend of mine some 10 years ago sent me some of his MFSL lps. I burned them all to CDRs and made artwork as you see above for them all. When he got them, he called me. He asked me how do I do that, the CDRs "sound so musical." In town here, I met a guy who has 10,000 vintage jazz records. Once he saw my system, he agreed to let me borrow his lps. I returned them cleaned on a VPI17, and gave him a CDR as you see above. He called me later that night. He asked how was I able to make a CDR of his album sound better on his system than the record did, as he performed an A/B test. Well, the recording line was one answer.

    Given the effort, I can see why others would not want to bother. And CDs are going out of favor. I recall reading once when I began my CDR transfer odyssey in 1998 with a Pioneer PDR 609 (use a Tascam DA-3000 now, my fourth recorder) that because of the effort required to burn a CDR from vinyl, it was best to seek out a commercially-issued CD. Unless you love doing it as I do, still a good recommendation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  5. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

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  6. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I don't burn CD-Rs anymore and haven'y for over ten years But, of the one's i've done, I still keep them around for the artwork I reproduced on them, using the labels from the label gallery here.
     
  7. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    I also started with a PDR-609, used two Alesis Masterlink ML9600s, one of which I converted from spinning hard drive to solid-state, and currently use the Tascam DA3000 too.

    What were the two that you used between Pioneer and Tascam?
     
  8. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    My process is pretty quick, but now that I'm doing manual click elimination instead of relying only on software, things have gotten much slower.
     
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  9. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v

    Location:
    Romania
    I use an automatic generic conservative de-click from the beginning. Not harmful to the transients. Then after some de-noising and such, I'm doing manual de-clicking to preserve the transients, the Dynamic Range and the overall quality of the needledrop. Time consuming but it's worth.
     
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  10. BendBound

    BendBound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Thank you for the note. After the PDR-609, I used an Alesis Masterlink ML9600. But I had the machine heavily modified by someone whose name I forgot. He upgraded a number of components, input jacks, new HD, and spiked feet. Really a nice machine and a great upgrade, only to get the music off of it, you had to burn a Red Book CD. Then I purchased the Tascam DV-RA-10000HD. I got it used from a guy who wrote music for the movie industry. I promptly sent it to Jim Williams of Audio Upgrades in So. California. He did a bang up job.

    That machine developed a very faint hum a year or so ago. I can still use it, and I'd like to get it fixed. I was concerned about sending it back to Tascam, and I have talked to their recorder experts, because it is a modified machine. I suspect the issue is in the power supply.

    Last year, I purchased the Tascam DA-3000, which is massively easier to use. Recording on this one, however, is different than on the DV-RA1000HD. Setting the recording levels for one has been trickier on the new unit. I have not found anyone who can reasonably upgrade the 3000. I've read mixed reviews on someone who apparently does perform component upgrades.

    But I am more than happy with the DA-3000.
     
  11. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    I've been very happy with my needledrops overall. Occasionally a really trashed piece of vinyl will present problems, but even they turn out better than they were. I enjoy finding and manually fixing the remnant problems after a software click repair, and I enjoy making semi-realistic-looking CD inserts. But the real joy comes when I listen to them in the car and cannot tell that it's not a real CD - except I get CD-Text on my discs. And there are many times that I compare a needledrop to an official CD and find that I like my work better than the "real thing".
     
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  12. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    ... or what Alesis calls a CD24. AIFF files, at whatever sample rate/res they were recorded at. I got into the habit of doing these, as they skipped the rendering phase of writing a disc, and I could just copy the files to computer, without having to use ripping software.

    Trouble was, the higher the sample/res, the less you could get on a disc.
     
  13. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    As a proud owner of a 1980s Japanese direct drive linear turntable I disagree :) It's true it has some rumbling issues, but I suspect it's caused by ringing of the rather light aluminium platter, not the motor. It's not a big issue sonically, but you notice when cleaning up tracks digitised from it.
     
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  14. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany

    In a way ... They cleaned up the mess they had caused themselves with inconsistent versioning numbers.

    You need to understand is that their internal version numbering - which is rather logical -, and their "marketing names" for the Windows versions drifted apart at one stage, and it got worse when the "marketing names" introduced numbering different from the internal numbering.

    Another thing is that there were two strands of Windows: The old DOS based Windows vs the NT strand. They are two completely separate systems, their only connection is that they look the same on a screen and that they are compatible to a certain degree (can run the same softwares to an extent and share some other concepts). Today only the NT-based strand matters.

    There was no Windows NT 1 and 2. They started the counting of NT at 3.1 to coincide with DOS-based Windows 3.1, because it launched around the same time and its look and feel is similar. And they completely botched version numbering up when NT 6.1 was marketed as Windows 7, and NT 6.2 as Windows 8. This is what they tried to rectify with Windows 10.

    I hope the formatting works, the following should be viewed with fixed font if it doesn't:


    =========== DOS-based ==========|=========== NT-based =============
    internal name ... marketing name|internal name ... marketing name
    ================================|==================================
    Windows 1
    Windows 2
    Windows 3.0
    Windows 3.1 .................... Windows NT 3.1
    ................................ Windows NT 3.5
    Windows 4.0 ..... Windows 95 ... Windows NT 4.0
    Windows 4.10 .... Windows 98
    Windows 4.90 .... Windows ME ... Windows NT 5.0 .... Windows 2000
    =============== END ============ Windows NT 5.1 .... Windows XP
    ................................ Windows NT 6.0 .... Windows Vista
    ................................ Windows NT 6.1 .... Windows 7 (!!!)
    ................................ Windows NT 6.2 .... Windows 8
    ................................ Windows NT 6.3 .... Windows 8.1
    ................................ Windows NT 10.0 ... Windows 10
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  15. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Large number of reasons
    • Because they want to listen to their music on a digital device for convenience
    • Because they want to hear their music on a mobile device
    • Because the digital format takes much less space
    • Because they want to sell their LP but keep the music
    • Because they want a backup
    • Because they want to help someone listen to their old LPs who hasn't got a turntable any more (which is what I'm currently doing)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  16. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    FYI, and for any others, I've found that the DA3000 can easily induce hum in other component(s). Not strictly applicable to a needle-drop thread, but I found that when copying from a cassette deck, I placed the cassette deck on top of the DA3000, and after a few tapes, noticed the hum. Take the cassette deck off the top, and place it to the side, and the hum disappears.
     
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  17. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    There were reports of underlying problems with the number "9" as both Windows 95 and Windows 98 resulted in code that shortened version tests to just looking for the "9". So a jump to "10" was deemed the easiest thing to do with the new version.
     
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  18. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    ...or maybe you just missed the release of Windows 9. :D

    [​IMG]
     
  19. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
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  21. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bentonville AR
    Thanks but it's a very well mastered pressing so it was easy to make it sound good. I love the guitars in this that's why I used that sample when that 2nd guitar comes in you can hear the air around it. Also is the last track on that side so IGD is not an issue.
     
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  22. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    The problem is that I have other uses for the Scarlett. I use it for the large diaphragm mic that is on my desk for conference calls at work, etc. (yes massive overkill using a large diaphragm condenser instead of just the web cam mic for work, but I own it and it's there so I may as well use it, right? I always sound great on conference calls.) The input level and settings are vastly different, so one of the channels changes constantly.

    My old E-MU 1212m had no such problem because it was software based. It worked fine, but my new PC is a Surface Pro 7 so I can't use the old PCI card any more. A detented control is SUCH an INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS thing to put in these interfaces. Drives me nuts as well. Luckily there is a mark on the controls - the "1" and "2" numbers are in just about the perfect place for needle drops so I can use those as a marking. Truth be told there are small variations in lots of cartridges and/or needles in balance so I guess having to be extra careful about balance is not such a big deal.

    My first needle drop with the new system turned out just fine. It will work good for me.
     
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  23. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    The 1212m works in Windows 10 using the Windows 8 drivers. I've been using it that way for years with great results. The only reason I don't continue to do so is that my new computer doesn't have PCI.
     
  24. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    You know what, you're correct. I now remember that I upgraded my motherboard and lost the PCI. Windows 10 coincided with that for me, hence my mix up.
     
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  25. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    I have a new for flow as of last week. I received my new Sweet Vinyl Sugar Cube SC-2. It replaces and improves upon what I was doing with a Parasound Z-Phone with USB. The SC-2 removes clicks and pops seamlessly. I have yet to hear any change to the music running it through the click removal process. Up to 8 files at a time are held within the SC-2. When I am ready to export I can export the file as various digital file types and I can adjust the amount of click and pop are done to the files. This allow some flexibility because you can export different versions of the file with different compression and different degrees of click and pop removal.

    The files saved internally to the SC-2 are exported a Synology 8TB NAS Drive. I do any editing in a program called Fission.The Sugar Cube and the NAS drive have simplified things and streamlined the whole process.
     
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