Harbeth owners: treble?

Agreed. We're fortunate to have a great high-end dealer here in Richmond (Audio Exchange) and they carry Harbeth and are very friendly and amenable to auditions. However while I have spent some time listening to Sonus Faber there (Amati and Aida), I didn't even ask to hear the Harbeths (didn't know enough at the time) and ended up buying a couple pairs used and open-box. Did buy a couple of amps from them though!

Point being, there's no substitute for listening to speakers in your own environment and at your leisure. It may cost a bit to 'buy and try' but why should it be free? My biggest trouble is that I fall in love with so many different models and have trouble selling when I should. So I have a house full of speakers. Is that so wrong?

 

To be fair that's the result he got. Or that's what he heard.

Like I say recordings, rooms, equipment attached all influence the sound. I have heard the Super HL5+ sound tinny bright here in HK and also heard them in a shop where they sounded smooth. A good speaker should actually have the ability to sound tinny bright when the front end equipment, room, or the recording, sucks.

FWIW - when I was at a record shop in Singapore the owner owned all of the Harbeth speakers and his favorite was the Compact 7.

I understand the P3ESR being a frequency limited favorite - I just think the new Rogers sounds a lot better for a LS-3/5a type but I certainly get the idea of being a fan of a speaker brand so I get people who are Harbeth fanboys. It's a matter of finding the right mix of strength and weaknesses for your room and taste.

 

Nope. Not even sure what led to that question.

Love my Compact 7. At the time of purchase I couldn't really understand why one would consider the decently pricier HL5s. That said, I didn't especially fall in love in the shop where I first heard the Compact 7, I was perhaps even underwhelmed. I bought them anyway because the praise was so convincing (especially in the SHF Harbeth threads!) , I could have returned them too if I didn't like them.

 

i'm into car audio too and metallic tweeters can be a big problem. the biggest issue is that the component crossovers do not do a good job of phase alignng them to the woofers or filtering the frequencies they cannot cleanly reproduce.
you wind up with an edgy distorted sound that stands alone from the woofer. combine that with comb filtering and multiple hard surface reflections and it can be a nightmare.
i had the focals too and used to say they would sound better in the trunk with the subwoofers but still be too bright !

 

IME, a really raspy sax will make most revealing speakers sound a bit 'piercing'.
But if you've heard one IRL the actual sound can be piercing too.
Needless to add, there are other sounds which'll qualify.

 

Does anyone use a subwoofer with their harbeth? How many? What type?

 

I didnt say they were piercing, but when it comes to the treble, I found the treble too prominent, no matter the source or amp. I miss them though, i loved them, but yeah if i had to critic them, it would be the treble presence not tuned to my preference; but i do like a little rolled off up top. still, the bass quality, with the mid and the whole presentation is just world class.

about the analytical nature of harbeth, I disagree. its probably the most natural, detailed and organic mid ive heard. detail doesnt equal analytical.

 

Haha. Vu, right? I bought my 40.2s from him. Definitely not bright. Perfect imo.

 

Yes correct Vu and I bought my AN-J/lx's from him also not bright.

 

I have Harbeth 40.2 speakers and once I got them in my room, the sound wasn't really what I thought it would be from reviews I read.
It can definitely be hot sounding depending on cables/ grilles on or off / toe-in or not / duplexes powering the gear/ etc; the 40.2 sounds honest, to me. I expected a little more romantic sounding, or forgiving, I guess.
I listen to mostly rock / punk / jazz and I've got the speakers sounding really great in my room, but it's been a process.

I highly recommend the Ton Trager stands, too. I couldn't justify the expense when I bought the speakers, but I experimented with raising the speakers off my Skylan stands with Isoacoustic Oreas for months until I could no longer deny that space around the speaker sounded more tonally correct than the speaker on the flat base of the Skylan.
The Ton Trager blew away my makeshift experiment with Oreas and the Skylan stand. That was the biggest surprise of my experience with these Harbeth speakers - how much the stand influenced the sound.

edit: I don't use a subwoofer. My Harbeth system doesn't need one.

 

The original SHL5, M30 and the C7es3 are a little romantic, not the later versions

 

I had heard that about the 40.1 speakers, too, but don't know how true that is. I tried to find a used pair of 40.1 but got outbid on a local pair on eBay. The price just got too close to what I could get the 40.2 for. There were some deals on the "regular" 40.2 when the Anniversary models came out.

 

I tell people about those Ton Trager stands all the time. If you haven't tried them with your Harbeth's you have no idea how good your speakers can sound. Sound Anchors, Skylan etc just don't cut it. Why spend 5-10K on Speakers and then cheap out when it comes to stands? Makes NO sense to me whatsoever.

 

i have used filled skylan stands, my own diy ton trager open stands and 4 post sound anchor.
they each allowed the harbeths i have had to sound excellent.
besides providing solid support, the most important quality for them is to put the speakers at proper height relative to your listening height. get that right along with proper room positioning and any of the above stands will get the job done well.
the ton trager stands pricing is exaggerated because of the cost of the speakers they are supporting.

 

Harbeth - too bright? No, but I lived my life listening to hot JBL monitors so pretty much any speaker sounds dull in comparison. Several years ago, after reading about Harbeth here on the Forum, I decided to give them a try. Started with the P3ESR. Wasn’t thrilled at first, but grew to love them (after my ears adjusted from years with the JBL’s). A few years later a nice pair of used M30.1 speakers presented themselves at an attractive price, so I jumped on them. They’re everything the P3ESR are, except the M30.1 sound “bigger” and “deeper”. Sold the P3ESR as I no longer needed them. Would I buy Harbeth again? Absolutely, if a nice pair of M40.1 or M40.2 presented themselves at an attractive price...

(BTW, The Absolute Sound reviewed the M30.1 back in 2013 and called them, “Ravishing!”. Read it here - Harbeth Monitor 30.1 Loudspeaker )

 

I had a SVS SB3000 when I got my C7s. When first hooking up the speakers I turned the sub off to hear them alone. My initial impression of the Harbeths in my room was, "I don't need this sub." After listening without the sub for a while I turned it back on and tuned it for the C7s. I leave it on, but don't feel like I'm missing mush with it off.

 

I'm curious how this thread ever started. I have never heard anyone characterize Harbeth as bright or otherwise heavy on treble.

 

That’s interesting. I’ve heard the 40.2s in multiple systems with a lot of different amps (both tube and ss) and never got the hot sound you are describing. The 40s were less “in your face” sounding than the other harbeth models I tried. Sounded just right to my ears. In comparison, I also demoed Devore 096s and going in expected the DeVore’s to be the more tame and laid back and rolled off top end. The opposite was the case. The o96 was the more aggressive speaker to my ears and the top end with horns had an unpleasant top end with certain instruments. Everything is relative and cannot be looked at in a vacuum.

 

I use a JL Audio 13" Fathom with 30.1. Works for me.

 

I wish you didn't post that. Now I got to get a pair.

 

Not trying to start anything, but just reviewing what my original post said. A question was asked. That was it. I wanted more information about the speakers. The "yes I know" was because youtube is a poor place to audition speakers or audio. I appreciate all the information that I have been given. I am pondering a small pair of harbeth as an introduction. Pair it with a tube amp. Small enough to where I could still get other speakers if I wanted.

 

Bright? No. People who find fault with Harbeth will accuse them of the exact opposite. Warm and wooley.

I bought C7ES3 mostly as I was absolutely captivated by the speakers ability to present lovely midrange and tame bright recordings to an enjoyable presentation and that they do well. Very well. I auditioned at a dealer with both solid state and tube gear, brought my own music and focused on torture tracks, bright recordings, etc.

Sold.

At home over the next couple of years, I experimented with various cartridges, phono pre-amps, amplifiers(4 solid state amps-no tubes), rooms and treatments, placement, etc. In the end, I moved them on as they were a little to warm and a little too wooley for me.

Sold again.

My opinions should only be taken in regard to my experience with the Harbeth C7ES3 as these are the only ones I auditioned and consequently lived with for some years.

 

Exactly...that's what was so surprising about this thread. But yes, all questions are fair of course ;-)

 

Good advice here. A low efficiency speaker will sound better on a bigger watt SS amp than a low wattage tube amp. If going tube route, look for 90db+ efficiency speakers. The more efficient the speaker the better they will sound with a tube amp. That will help narrow down choices.

 

FWIW, Alan Shaw of Harbeth recommends SS amps and grills on. This is something he repeats often. Of course individual tastes differ, but I keep this in mind as I look to upgrade my amp. I'd be interested in trying tubes at some point, but if the man who made the speakers recommends solid state, I can't argue with this - particularly if the budget only has room for one amp.