Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. gmeese34

    gmeese34 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    Yes, that was the conductor. I was not exactly sure what to list for the records so I just tried to do the music piece and the Orchestra. The Mercury conductor I listened to was Paray and the other is Dorati. The Phillips conductor is Kegel? Not sure about that one the credits are in a different language. Which Columbia ones were you wondering about?
     
  2. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    The Columbias with the Philadelphia Orchestra - maybe it was Ormandy? Lovers of classical music are interested in who the conductors are because they have a big influence on how a piece is performed. By the way, the Philips label is spelt with 1 l. It was based in my home country before it was absorbed by the mighty Universal conglomerate and discontinued. Deutsche Grammophon is now also owned by Universal.

    What does it say on the Philips disc? Maybe I can help with the language, it might be Dutch or German.
     
  3. gmeese34

    gmeese34 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    Phillips

    There’s a link to the Philips cover.

    That’s interesting regarding the conductors, but it makes sense. Does that mean you seek out certain conductors (in general) rather than orchestras? You are correct, all the Philadelphia Columbia’s are Ormandy.
     
  4. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    I had a bit of difficulty accessing the Philips cover link, but it is indeed Herbert Kegel conducting the Radio Symphony Orchestra and Chorus Leipzig. It was recorded in 1975 in the former German Democratic Republic (DDR).

    Yes, conductors are very important, but so are orchestras, it is the combination that counts.
     
  5. JuniorMaineGuide

    JuniorMaineGuide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boulder, Colorado
    Who are the performers on the Debussy Quartet, the Brandenburg Concertos, and Die Kunst der Fuge? Those are some of my favorite works from that list. Also what instrument(s) play on Kunst der Fuge? It's commonly heard on all different combinations of instruments - solo harpsichord, piano, string quartet, chamber orchestra, etc.
     
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  6. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

  7. gmeese34

    gmeese34 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    Kunst der Fuge says “Orchestral Realization by Marcel Bitsch and Claude Pascal”. Chamber Orchestra of the Saar with Karl Ristenpart conducting.

    The Debussy says Budapest String Quartet, Joeseph Roisman and Alexander Schneider

    The Brandenberg Concerti is conducted by Reiner
     
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  8. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Bet that's good! :wave:
     
  9. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    It is a tad fast in some spots but the playing is so darned fine you have to like it. Great recording as well.
    The Symphonic Variations by Cesar Franck is also on the disc and that is a great performance.
     
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  10. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    "Kunst der Fuge" is German for "Art of [the] Fugue," J.S. Bach's summation of a lifetime's study of and work with the musical form known as fugue. Do you know what a fugue is? If you don't, the music may not make a lot of sense. Oversimplifying like mad, I'll try to explain a bit in hopes of giving you an orientation of sorts; if this territory is familiar, please forgive me and just ignore what follows. From the Baroque era up into the 20th century, the basic model for classical music was "melody plus harmony," which is to say the melody has an accompaniment supporting it, each being more or less a separate entity. Think of any typical song of today, with the singer presenting a tune and various instruments playing chords and noodles in support. In the Baroque era, much music worked on a different model known as "contrapuntal." In this system, a melody (or, more properly, a theme--it generally wouldn't be something singable in the way a melody is) provides its own accompaniment by making repeated, staggered entries. A simple example of the technique would be "Row, Row, Row Your Boat," with one singer (or group of singers) starting, another launching into the song at a certain point when the first is still in progress, another when the second group reaches that same point, and so on, each group proceeding with the same material independently but building up a tapestry of sound through interlocking iterations of the basic tune. Now, a fugue on the Bach level is far more complicated, and it has more elements--there were all manner of techniques for combining thematic material forward, backward, upside down, you name it--but that's the basic idea at its foundation.

    When J.S. Bach was alive, he was considered very old fashioned. The "incoming" style was what would develop into that "melody and accompaniment" paradigm, and contrapuntal writing was on its way out. What Bach did was to crystalize the old style and present it in music that, after a century or so of neglect by the public (he was always at least known to musicians), would emerge as the great summation of all that was powerful and good in the old Baroque contrapuntal approach to writing music. The Art of Fugue was his last testament, an attempt to write everything into one massive collection of fugues embodying every technique known to him. Hampered by blindness, among other things, he did not live to complete it. Some other musicians along the lines have tried their hands at finishing the final fugue; I don't think anyone has ever come close to the magnificent musical edifice Bach must have intended.

    I hope that helps a bit. Before essaying Kunst der Fuge, I'd be inclined to hunt out some less formidable examples of the breed, just to get a feel for how it works. Bach's famous Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, BWV 565, would probably be a good, familiar starting point.

    BWV. Oh, dear, another matter that bears some explaining. Briefly, because classical works tend to have generic titles--symphony, concerto, quartet, sonata, etc.--a given composer's works will frequently be put into a catalogue. Sometimes the composer himself compiles it, assigning what are known as "opus" numbers ("op."). Such catalogues may or, more often, may not be systematic and inclusive, and some are a downright mess, with duplicate numbers and omissions galore (Dvorak's symphonies are a particularly glaring example); in these cases, for important composers, scholars may step into the breach and create systematic catalogues for the benefit of musicians and the public. Such catalogues usually are indicated by an abbreviation of the compiler's name--D. for the Deutsch catalogue of Schubert's works, K. for Kochel's of Mozart's works, K. again for Kirkpatrick's of Scarlatti (who also gets L. numbers for the earlier Longo catalogue), and so on. BWV is not the initials of the compiler of the standard Bach catalogue, whose name was Schmieder (you will sometimes see S. used interchangeably with BWV, but that usage is frowned upon these days); rather, BWV is an abbreviation for what in German would be "Catalogue of Bach's Works." You'll do well to pay attention to these numbers. If you know the opus or other catalogue number, you can readily locate a given work by a given composer. If you don't, it can be a challenge; for instance, returning to Domenico Scarlatti, he wrote better than 500 harpsichord pieces called "sonata"; if all you know is "Sonata in D Major," it could be one of a dozen or maybe more, but if you know "Sonata in D Major, K. 534," you can zero in on exactly the one you want.

    That's a lot of territory. Don't get scared; enjoy the music, but in time I hope you'll find at least some of the foregoing helpful in your explorations.
     
  11. gmeese34

    gmeese34 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    Wow, really appreciate that write-up. Certainly will be bookmarking that for reference.

    This week I began listening to a bit of the Great Lectures course on “How to Listen to Great Music”, so I’m learning bits and pieces about the Baroque era, but your explanation brings clarity to it. I’m sure as I familiarize myself with the music from different eras it’ll be easier to recognize their defining features.

    That cataloging system makes a lot of sense when it’s written out like that - as you can imagine it’s a bit overwhelming to parse through these things when you don’t really know what to look for. Now that I can finally answer your original question, the Bach Fuge is BWV 1080
     
  12. JuniorMaineGuide

    JuniorMaineGuide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boulder, Colorado
    I love the Budapests’ Debussy String Quartet! That’s a great record.
     
  13. Slice

    Slice Fan Of Rock

    Location:
    Keller, TX
    Ronnie James Dio said that he & Ritchie Blackmore liked Bach, and Dio liked Beethoven, too, but Ritchie didn't much.
    Good evening to ya!
     
  14. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Saint-Saens
    Cello Concertos 1 & 2
    The Carnival of the Animals
    Africa
    Wedding-cake
    Neeme Jarvi
    Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra
    Chandos, 2016
    SACD/CD
    [​IMG]
    Everything is well done, but I preferred the recording of Africa with Louis Lortie, piano.
    The orchestral recording of The Carnival of the Animals is good, but I prefer the original chamber composition version with the Capucons, Frank Braley, d'Alberto, Emmanuel Pahud etc below on Erato:
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Well, now how's that for coincidence? I was just listening to the Africa Fantasy myself, albeit not in the same recording. Here's the one I was playing:

    [​IMG]

    The pianist is one Gwendolyn Mok. I know little or nothing about her, but no one involved here need be less than proud of the result. The SACD contains several less familiar Saint-Saens scores as well, all also well played.

    My own favorite Carnival of the Animals, as it has been from the day I first brought it home from the local public library as a kid, is this one:

    [​IMG]

    I was sad to see that Hugh Downs, who reads the Ogden Nash "incidental poems" here, died a few weeks ago.

    At midnight in the museum hall
    The fossils gathered for a ball
    There were no drums or saxophones,
    But just the clatter of their bones,
    A rolling, rattling, carefree circus
    Of mammoth polkas and mazurkas.
    Pterodactyls and brontosauruses
    Sang ghostly prehistoric choruses.
    Amid the mastodontic wassail
    I caught the eye of one small fossil.
    "Cheer up, sad world," he said, and winked-
    "It's kind of fun to be extinct."

    RIP Mr. Downs. You helped a young traveler in music get off to a happy start.
     
  16. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Throughout the day I enjoyed this 3-disc set of the Original Works for Violin & Keyboard by CPE Bach. Excellent sound and playing. Played on a Stradivarius and Steinway.
    CPE Bach
    Complete Original Works for Violin & Keyboard
    Tamsin Waley-Cohen, violin; James Baillieu, piano
    Signum, 2019
    3 CDs
    [​IMG]
     
  17. MikaelaArsenault

    MikaelaArsenault Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
  18. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    No thanks. For me they were overly repetitive and irritating.
    Gorecki: String quartets 1 & 2
    Tippett Quartet
    Naxos, 2018
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Another one I need!
     
  20. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    :winkgrin:
     
    George P likes this.
  21. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I like that LPO Saint Saens disc. Currently spinning it. That may be the only disc I own on the Cala label.
     
  22. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Beethoven: Symphony No. 7
    Reger: Variations and Fugue on a theme by Johann Adam Hiller, Op. 100
    Paul Van Kempen
    Berlin Philharmonic
    disc 7 of the Kempen box
    Eloquence, 2020
    10 CD box

    The original DG LP cover for the Reger in 1951.
    [​IMG]

    From the notes:
    A more remarkable choice was Max Reger's Hiller Variations, at the time rare repertoire for an LP. Coincidentally this work was also recorded not much later by Telefunken with Joseph Keilberth. Trevor Harvey compared the two recordings in the March 1957 issue of The Gramophone and found it hard to choose between them. "Keilberth seems to love the romantic variations more deeply; Van Kempen aided by the Berlin Philharmonic's virtuosity, brings off the lively ones brilliantly" he wrote. The superior sound quality of the Deutsche Grammophon LP," considerably clearer and more vivid full orchestral sound", was another point in its favor. Van Kempen stated shortly before his death that he rarely listened to his records, but that he thought the Reger LP was one of his most successful.

    I saw a couple of the variations from this recording available on YouTube.
     
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  23. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    I gather that Cala is the personal label of Geoffrey Simon. Regardless, it's a well-recorded and enjoyable disc.
     
  24. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    It appears that Simon is the owner of the label according to the CD booklet.
    I stand corrected. I also own this CD on the Cala label.
    [​IMG]
     
  25. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Just for fun, I had a look at the Records in Review volumes (annual compilations of reviews from High Fidelity magazine) for that period, and although no review appeared for the van Kempen, one did for the Keilberth in the 1957 volume (covering reviews published July 1956-June 1957). Reviewer Paul Affelder wrote, "The prolific Max Reger found his best inspiration not in his own themes but in those of other composers. Consequently, most of his best works are his sets of variations, complicated but always inventive reworkings of themes by Mozart, Beethoven, Telemann, and the like. He found the "merry theme" from Hiller's opera Der Arndtekranz in a textbook by Hugo Riemann, and constructed upon it an intriguing set of variations, culminating in a gigantic double fugue. The first recording of this work, by F. Charles Adler for SPA, is not at hand; but if memory serves correctly, this new one by Keilberth is somewhat more vivacious and varied in texture. For lovers of variations, an interesting work to investigate."

    Checking the third supplement (1953-1955) to The World's Encyclopedia of Recorded Music, I see that SPA was a US label called Society of Participating Artists, hitherto unknown to me; the Hiller Variations record was SPA 51 (LP only), listed for Great Britain as on a label called Concert Artist, no. LPA 1039. On this release Adler conducted something billed as the Vienna Philharmonia. From the WERM listings, Affelder was mistaken in giving this record primacy, as van Kempen's appears in small print under it with a star, which indicates a repressing of a recording documented in WERM's main volume or an earlier supplement, and sure enough it appears in the second supplement (1951-1952) in an issue on "variable micrograde" 78 RPM disks. My guess is that the van Kempen didn't get US release until it had been out for a while in Europe or else was simply so obscure repertory that it flew under the collective radar of the US record market.

    I don't have any of these recordings. The sole representation of the Hiller Vars. in my collection is an Orfeo LP by the Bavarian RSO under Colin Davis, which I bought new on the strength of a glowing review (I forget where, probably in Fanfare) when it was first released. I think I played it only once, immediately after buying it, and it didn't do much for me, but (a) I was a much younger listener then, and (b) Colin Davis is by no means one of my favorite conductors, usually striking me more as "solid and workmanlike" than "incandescent."

    [Edit] I lied. Taking a quick glance at my catalogue, I find that I do in fact have one record on the SPA label, once again featuring Herr Adler and the fictitious Vienna Philharmonia in relatively obscure literature. The entry is as follows:

    Falla: El Retablo de Maese Pedro (Master Peter's Puppet Show). In Spanish. Kmentt, Steingruber, Wiener; Vienna Philharmonia Or./Adler. SPA 43, 12" mono LP. SRCDS 4/25/97

    The cryptic notation at the end indicates I got it at a benefit sale for the Stone Ridge Country Day School on April 25, 1997. That sale, now no longer held, for years was a big event every year in this area; the school's gym would be stuffed with tables full of books and, at one end, records (sometimes including 78s), and people would arrive early and line up by the hundreds to get in when it opened on its first day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020

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