Was the late 90s post punk revival the last great rock movement?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by humanracer, Jan 6, 2021.

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  1. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    He discounts any any and all who don’t agree with his often twisted account of reality.
     
  2. Hatchet Jack

    Hatchet Jack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Because that's how we as humans understand and create our own reality, that's how we make sense of this world. We conceptualize and categorize things, we give them names and differentiate them. We say this is this, that is that, and this is not that and that is not this. We need these mechanisms so our reality (through our language) can make sense to our mind and senses.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  3. Dark_Matter

    Dark_Matter Forum Resident

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    94116
    Even though the genre is more underground than some of the bands mentioned in this thread, I think modern prog music should be considered a great rock movement in the early 2000s and 2010s. It borrowed from Pink Floyd, Yes, King Crimson and some of the other prog bands of the 1970s but still had its own sound that was distinctive and memorable. Their success wasn't based on record sales, but on innovation, good musicianship, and songs that are impactful. For instance:

    Porcupine Tree: In Absentia, Fear of a Blank Planet
    Steven Wilson: Hand Cannot Erase, The Raven that Refused to Sing
    Riverside: Second Life Syndrome
    Pineapple Thief: Your Wilderness, What Have We Sown
    Opeth: Damnation, Blackwater Park
     
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  4. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    Purple Jim is talking very specific in regards to UK Punk. The punk that arose from CBGB & later in the US is an entirley different beast.
    I lived the era in real time. The Sex Pistols & punk were a major earthquake. The musical & cultural landscape changed. The event only lasted a few years (if that).
    What followed were after shocks.
    This all occurred at the same time as Disco.
    The punk that you love appears to have come from a very US focussed view.

    John Peel's intro to his first punk radio show
    • Well, I think you’ll find this programme is in rather marked contrast to the programme that has preceded it, because tonight we are going to have a look at punk rock. Mind you, no two people seem to be able to agree exactly what punk rock is, as is evidenced by the fact that someone has been phoning us off and on during the day and trying to convince us that our guests tonight, The Damned, are not a punk rock band. And punk rock fairly clearly means something entirely different to Americans. Anyway, we’ll hear a lot of music that may be punk rock, and a lot that certainly is.
     
  5. Kerm

    Kerm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I never said I specifically love ANY strain of punk. I’m explaining that there was a lot of it. I love UK punk. I love NY punk. I especially love LA punk because it’s where I grew up and my uncle was in a first wave LA punk band that released records in the 70. I grew up in a family of punks. I have no objection to it at all. I love it.

    I simply don’t agree that it was the last rock movement. And as I’m sane, I also know it didn’t appear out of thin air.
     
  6. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    You really need to do some research here. "A novelty"? And "that's about it"? Totally not, sorry! See Enos contemporary quote: "This single is going to change the sound of club music for the next 15 years!" Or Jon Savages remark that this song defined the period "so much more than post punk". Still you choose to cling to a very male/white/rockist narration. I'm also hearing a slight echo of the "Disco sucks" campaign here. Where everything not "punk" is dismissed as "novelty".
    I only know Fontaines, Murder Capital and Protomartyr but I like them very much. What about them? No idea...
     
  7. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Exactly my point. That brilliant single changed the sound of club music - hardly a far reaching cultural change with lasting influence on fashion, attitudes; graphic design, cinema,... that is what you are not getting. I have done my reasearch, seen the BBC documentaries and I lived through those times as a student. I have a very clear picture of how things played out. You haven't even understood your own research.

    It defined the period to him and the single did influence a lot of people. Just like Van Halen did in the late 70s. Neither influencers created anything near the far reaching impact of punk.

    This statement proves that you have understood nothing at all. I'm only clinging to the narrative of truth because I was there. Back in the late 70s, I and my entourage of student friends (male and female) and aquaintances all loved disco and funk just as much as punk.

    What have modern day punk revivalists bands to do with this discussion?
     
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  8. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    There have been other "rock movements" since punk but they have hardly had the same widespread cultural influence that punk did. As I said, it spawned (what the jounalists termed) New Wave, Power Pop, post-punk, New Romantics/synth-pop. The spirit of punk remained as Brit Pop and Grunge (when the USA en masse finally got it as opposed to just those in tiny New York clubs).
    I didn't say that punk came "out of thin air", don't invent things. I did point out that punk had its trace influences (Velvets, Iggy, Dolls - all minor sellers in their day) but prior to it, there hadn't been an big established genre or movement that it fed off, in the way that the others came out of the punk explosion.
     
  9. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Was the late 90s post punk revival the last great rock movement?

    Depends what you mean by great. Quality or quantity?
     
  10. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    You didn't need to be specific about the strain of punk that you love as it is quite apparent to me as you have confirmed.
    The fact that you did not actually live through the era (as a teenager or older) is also evident.
    AND (it's a very important and) you are viewing this through the eyes of an American not from a UK perspective.


    For it to be the last rock movement we would have to disregard Grunge & Britpop.
    As for appearing out of thin air SHMF has taught us all that that only applies to The Beatles who started everything & may have also finished everything.
    Is punk a thing of relevence in The Beatles micro world. ?
     
  11. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    that song was enormous at the time. hell, pretty much everything off that album was huge at the time. but "Mr. Brightside" and "Somebody Told Me" were the biggest by far.
     
  12. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    To write Grunge off as not having the same widespread cultural influence that punk did is selling it a bit short. Grunge may not have had the same inpact in the UK that punk did but you could equally argue the opposite for punk. ie UK punk was a big thing in the UK. Grunge was a big thing in the US
    To suggest that US punk was confined to tiny New York clubs is also selling that movement short.
     
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  13. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    This is leading nowhere. But I love your last quote: "What have modern day punk revivalists bands to do with this discussion?" Just shows that you - apparently - aren't able to read properly so I'm going to explain it to you:

    1. These modern bands have everything to do with this discussion. Check out the threads topic.

    2. My quote was a direct answer to @bad_penny who was bringing them up. I know it can be tough to take but: Not everything is about you.

    Oh... and the less said about your "I was there" arguments, the better! :hugs:
     
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  14. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    I wasn't there. I was sat at home with a nice cup of tea. I have witnesses to prove it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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  15. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    You stubbornly fail to ignore the fact that there are so many crucial cultural influences that have zero to do with Punk. Disco, soul, jazz, electronica, Krautrock... they are total different set of influences. Kraftwerk has zero punk roots. But this is a discussion for an entirely different thread.
     
  16. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    Yes Disco did also define the era but from a club music ie dance era.
    Disco was the dominant music form at the time. It dominated the airwaves in all forms but IMO it was not a rock movement.
     
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  17. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    That's true. It definitely wasn't a rock movement. I was just reacting to @Purple Jim who seems to think everything came from Punk. Because he wuz there!
     
  18. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    Yes Disco, soul, jazz, electronica, Krautrock do belong on a different thread except that everything is influenced by everything else
     
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  19. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    True that Grunge was bigger in the US. In the UK and Europe it was quite popular but the feeling was that it was a rehash of punk with longer hair.
    So yes, Grung was a BIG rock movement but again, it was an offspring of punk and it didn't have the widespread influences in other cultural domains as punk did.

    Don't get me wrong, US punk, which grew out of New York (Velvets, Modern Lovers, NY Dolls, Richard Hell, Television, Heartbreakers, Ramones, Suicide,...) was a wonderful thing but it was a tiny, confined movement, a spark that ignited what happened in Europe big time. The following US punk bands remained pretty local and didn't have mass appeal - and there's nothing wrong with that because glittering success wasn't the perrogative/philosophy of punk (though Steve Jones would disagree).
     
  20. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    I think you need to read the title of the read. This discussion is about the last great ROCK movement. Try and keep up.
     
  21. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    Yes, but that was because you were not there. But more importantly because you do not acknowledge the significance cultural impact of UK punk .

    Punk was a cultural explosion. They don't happen that often (starting at an arbitrary point because this certainly wasn't the first) Elvis (the rock & roll era), Beatlemania, the Hippie/Woodstock era, Punk, Grunge & maybe Britpop
     
  22. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    this is so ridiculously false to the point of not even being wrong
     
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  23. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    According to you.
     
  24. Kingsley Fats

    Kingsley Fats Forum Resident

    You have managed to ignore the influence of Heavy Metal (Hard rock really) on Grunge.
    NWOBHM is a rock movement that gets a lot less discussion on this forum than what it should


    And the truth is that punk was not a big seller out in the mainstream.MOST UK punk bands remained pretty local and didn't have mass appeal.

    There is not much punk music that I actually like but I do embrace the DIY & the independent attitude that punk brought.
    Mass appeal & the music I like & listen to are rarely together in the same sentence.
     
  25. skydropco

    skydropco Rock 'n Roll Nurse

    Seattle definitely had a flourishing Pop/Garage scene prior to grunge, I know this because a lot of those bands came to Victoria to play.. Young Fresh Fellows, Green Pajamas, Fastbacks & The Posies spring to mind.
     
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