Somewhat similarly I read Bruce Springsteen's autobiography and he said at first, seeing them sometime in the early 70s, he was unimpressed, they were like a bar band to him. Later, it seems he came around to them (probably in part due to Clarence) and realized the Dead were about celebration.
This pretty much sums it all up: Grateful Dead Family Discography: Grateful Dead releases by recording year
The Watkins Glen soundcheck (the night before) is pretty much essential. The regular night is OK, not as magical.
my ultimate point about comparing the ABB to the Dead was about how they developed or "aged" as bands. Those of us who followed the ABB since the 70s saw them in the 90s and 2000s as a much improved band from where they were, and they remained at a high level playing a sound that we liked all the way until the end. Some of their adds, like mentioned before with Oteil on bass, or adding Marc Quinones on percussion, propelled them forward in a way that how many people here think Brent propelled the Dead forward from Keith? I don't know. I haven't seen many people who think the midi sound and plinky keys improved the Dead from say a 72-74 sound. Forget the pre- and post- Dickey talk for sec, I'm just saying they musically aged well. Others were like this too - someone like a Tom Petty - seeing him in the 2000s, he was playing more of a bluesy set and not the rock and roller 3 minute songs of a 20 year old. He settled in nicely to elder statesman role in a way that 90s Dead maybe didn't?
Grateful Dead · 1995 The two posted above are also good, but I don't know if Deadlists is up to date and the Family Discography is official releases only.
A. I don't believe Bill Graham really said that. He seems to have understood and appreciate the uniqueness of what the GD were trying to do. He also understood that the Dead *and their music* were instrumental in creating the very community to which he referred. B. Butch was the rock of stability of the ABB--the precise drummer around which Jaimoe and the string players could weave the magic stuff. He needed to be there, but his temperament probably didn't allow him to fully appreciate what the Dead were doing. It probably didn't help that he was drunk! Watch the Veneta '72 video during the longer jams. The entire crowd is sitting silent and stoned as the band explores the cosmos. They weren't partying, they were experiencing something profound. That wasn't a freakin' Jimmy Buffett concert... I can only speak to my own experience. I've been into improvisional music since I was 18-19 (which was a long damn time ago!) and have been an improvising musician myself over that entire time. I share some of Jerry's aversion to self-discipline and need for instant gratification. Nevertheless, I could listen to three hours of John Coltrane and Pharaoh Sanders squawking away atonally in some 1966 club gig, but I never could embrace the GD. All those years, I knew I *should* like them based on my overall tastes, but it never clicked. Sadly, this means that I never took a chance to see them in concert when I had many such opportunities. Some of it, I think, was a parallel love of overt musical virtuosity. Bigger, louder, faster, more complicated. Just as with young Jerry trying to be a bluegrass banjo virtuoso, I think musically ambitious people often focus aspirationally on those who do things they themselves cannot. It clicked for me this past summer. I needed this whole thing in my life. It really is all Just Exactly Perfect. I'll be honest with you--I can play rings around Jerry on the fretboard, but that constant searching and willing to go out on the limb is the elixir I need right now. Better to hit a couple wrong notes than to never hit the really really really right ones. There's a lot to learn from, there.
Right, and if the Dead really were just an excuse for a community to gather, even sort of incidental to the party, people shouldn't really get much out of listening to their music at home. Or we all could settle on a good Top 10 Dead Shows and log on to geek out together about those same shared favorites, again and again. We might even just talk about the latest Dead & Co. and Phil & Friends tours; it's all the same, anyway. Right? Of course that's not how it works.
Yeah Duane and Dickey Betts seemed to have been the Deadheads of the band, from what I've read. Maybe not Deadheads, but you know.
I probably got off-track with that Dickey discussion. Your theory is an interesting one. It's not really an apples-to-apples to comparison, though. For one thing, The "core 4" of the GD were constant from 1965-95. Since Mickey was around for most of that time, you could reasonably call it a "core 5". Pigpen is kind of a special case, because he was the original focus of the band but was already being marginalized by 1968. Thus, I don't consider him part of the core even though there are plenty of people who don't care much for the band after his departure. The ABB, by contrast, broke up and reformed several times and suffered the death of two core members (including their founder and leading light) early on. They had breaks, and that probably made it fresher and more inspired when they got back together. The GD went on a 30-year road trip with just a single break. It had to be a grind, even when the crowds and the money got big toward the end. Here's the key, however: the "new blood" in the ABB was expected to conform to certain expectations about what "ABB music" is. Alan Woody didn't get to just play whatever he wanted when he joined--he was expected to fill the role the way that Berry Oakley had 20 years before. Warren Haynes would be the main exception, but I think he understood that he couldn't do Govt Mule type playing in the ABB. He was playing a role, albeit with more leeway than the bassists got. I'm pretty sure Dan Toler had been expected to be much more circumspect, and he was a MONSTER player who could have added a lot to the mix. My impression is that no one who joined the GD was ever told what to do or expected to do anything--almost to a fault. Remember, nobody was in charge because Jerry refused to be. Keith was never told "play like Pigpen or T.C." Brent was never told "play like Keith." Vince was never told "play like Brent." It all just sort of worked itself out onstage in front of everyone. Messy and occasionally awkward and unsuccessful. But that's what made the GD who they were. Lastly, the show revolved around Jerry. And Jerry was not well for most of the '80s and '90s. Dickey and Gregg had their demons, but it seemed to be mostly a backstage thing. Jerry's demons played themselves out before the Eyes of the World. So, no, the Dead didn't "age well" in comparison to the '90s ABB while they were still around. But the big picture and historical perspective tells a different story.
Today I listened to 6/26/88 (Civic Arena). Terrific show. Highlights includes Touch Of Grey, Uncle John's Band, Drums > Space, Dear Mr Fantasy > Hey Jude, Turn On Your Love Light and Black Muddy River. This show features strong performances and overall good jamming. Jerry's in great form vocally, as proven on Black Muddy River and UJB. These are wonderful versions, especially the BMR. In my opinion it's one of the besr late-era Jerry ballads and this version is quite powerful. The Dear Mr Fantasy > Hy Jude combo is also incredible. Brent truly gives it his all during HJ. Other highlights includes When Push Comes To Shove, The Music Never Stopped and Cumberland Blues. I reccommend this show quite a lot. Earlier in the day I listened to 10/16/88 (Bayfront Center). Great show. Highglights includes Mississippi Half-Step, Never Trust A Woman, Foolish Heart, Terrapin Station, The Wheel, Gimme Some Lovin', Morning Dew and Quinn The Eskimo. Another excellent '88-show. It features incredible vocals and playing. Many of the afore-mentioned songs are performed with bravado. There's an energy that only the Dead possessed. The Terrapin and Morning Dew are great versions, with some realy excpetional playing by Garcia. The Gimme Some Lovin' is a really tight version. Perfect synergy between the band members. Bobby does great job on Victim, All Along The Watchtower and Looks Like Rain. Drums > Space, Friend Of The Devil as well as To Lay Me Down are other highlights. I suggest a listen to this show if you want some of the best from '88.
That's what I'm wondering. That site is ancient and it's hard to tell whether it's still being actively maintained (I think each show/year is dependent on its individual "maintainer" anyway). One way to see what's in circulation would be to check archive.org or relisten.net.
I hope I don't PO some here but that statement from Butch Trucks sounds like an observation of someone that was drunk, which he admitted. The Dead went out on musical tightropes more than the ABB ever did. When you go out on improvisatory excursions like The Dead did, there will be times when it may fall apart. However, there were times when The Dead reached intensity that anyone in the ABB should be in awe of. Just from a guitar player's observation, I love both Duane and Dickey's playing immensely. Same with Jerry. The ABB guys were great improvisers but Jerry was something different altogether. Some of his modal improvisations were one of a kind.
Your experience is very similar to mine. As someone whose musical awakening happened with punk and the explosion of great new bands in that '77-'80 period I always refer to as our '65-'68, the Dead were about far off the radar as you could get. I always liked AB and WD, but not enough to look any further at the time. But it is the mid-late '80's, when I had become bored with much of the current rock music and dove into jazz, classical, reggae, blues and Americana that with a nudge I might have taken the plunge. As it turns out it wasn't until joining this forum that my interest was finally piqued enough to crack the door, which of course opened the floodgates. Like you said, they were always there beckoning. As a huge jazz head, I always wonder why it didn't happen sooner, and only wish it had when I might have had a chance to see Jerry. I don't agree at all with the Bill Graham summation, but then I wasn't there and he certainly was.
This has always been one of my favorite Dark Stars. I'm partial to pre-72 versions of DS and TOO, although there are ample exceptions to that rule. Hello 4-8 and 9-21-72.
Perfectly stated, and completely true. The kind of improvisation the Dead did was another thing altogether from what the Allmans attempted.
Agree, 100%, not surprisingly, but the other thing that struck me is that some of what Trucks says is literally untrue. i.e.: I mean, what? "Mill around onstage"? "Try songs they didn't know"? (Maybe in the 80s, not so much in the early 70s.) "Quit playing and stand there"? Really? I mean, they might have been guilty of this stuff in the very early days, once in awhile, but by the time they played together at Watkins Glen, the Dead were a finely-tuned machine. You could say they were too mellow; you could say that they just noodled for extended periods of time, but saying that they milled around onstage and stopped playing songs in the middle because they didn't know them is just fantasy.
