I agree. A lot of phono preamps produce way to much gain, at expense of dynamics. I tried Hana SL with different gain settings, and 60 on one pre and 62 on another was perfectly adequate. I would disagree on loading, 200-300 was a sweet spot for my ears.
I remember trying 300 and 230 on my pre, but I went with 1K...definitely subjective to the listener and the composition of their hi fi. I’ve never been a bass guy. I also remember more than a few people agreeing with you even though it’s lower than Hana’s recommendation. I used to always start at 10x the impedance of the cartridge itself, which, in this case, would be 300...Now you’re going to get me to play around with it again
Hana recommends a higher loading because that’s what will result in a balanced frequency response. If it sounds best under 400 ohms there are issues elsewhere in the setup.
Right - I’ve never had any luck going outside of cartridge specs/recommendations personally, but I always try everything when loading. Maybe tail up?
Is that conjecture on your part, or have you seen some plots from Excel showing frequency response versus loading? From what I've seen, they don't even put limits on their FR spec, it's more just a suggested bandwidth you can expect. One of the very positive Hana SL reviews out there came from Geoff Husband at TNT in 2016, and he used a current input preamp, meaning close to zero load impedance. And a lot of people use transformers matched for best power transfer, which would mean loading around the same as the internal resistance. Anyway, not intending to put you on the spot, just curious, there's been a lot of LOMC loading talk around here recently.
After some futzing around (the advantages of working at home is you get to listen to a lot of music if you aren’t in meetings) I’ve arrived - for now - at what sounds good to me. I’ve got the middle gain setting toggled on at hi output and 1k ohms. I’m tracking just slightly over 2 grams just VTA slightly tail down and anti-skate set to 2. Setting the first (labeled MM) switch caused me to have to turn my preamp way up to get to a decent volume but still sounded okay still. I’m going to listen to this for a while and see if I’m still happy with it afterwards.
Great. Jolida must have fixed the gain issue at some point then. Maybe you have a newer unit? That setting on mine would be way too much gain. Regardless of what anybody suggests, set it where you like it and be happy.
Looking at the JD9 schematic, there are three opamp gain stages followed by the tube output stage. The second opamp is non-inverting and has the switched resistors in the feedback loop to set gain, with 1K feedback and switched values to ground of 1K, 100, or 33 ohms. With all switches open, the feedback is 100% so gain would just be 1 (0dB). With the 1K switch set, the gain would be 2 (+6dB). With middle switch set, the gain would be 11 (+21dB). With third switch set, the gain would be 31 (+30dB). But who know what the base gain of the circuit is, and whether it has changed with the different iterations.
That would make sense actually. I’ve always thought that I had a bit more than 55dB with all switches set to off on the high outs...Your numbers align perfectly with the known numbers on the link I shared (incrementally). If the “known” numbers on that page are correct, and I believe they are, then base gain through the high outs is actually 64dB, not 55. Nice work.
But Bronze is internally the same as Black, the only difference being the stylus profile. If the output was so anomalously high, Bronze would have the same issues as Black, but people generally like the Bronze, and don't report the same issues.
Hi Fi World. Ortofon 2M Bronze 2M Black BRONZE Tracking force 1.5gms Weight 7gms Vertical tracking angle 23degrees Frequency response 20Hz - 20kHz Channel separation 29dB Tracking ability (300Hz) lateral 88µm vertical 45µm lateral (1kHz) 22cms/sec. Distortion (45µm) lateral 1.2% vertical 2.1% Output (5cms/sec rms) 7.9mV BLACK Tracking force 1.5gms Weight 7gms Vertical tracking angle 22degrees Frequency response 20Hz - 20kHz Channel separation 30dB Tracking ability (300Hz) lateral 90µm vertical 45µm lateral (1kHz) 23cms/sec. Distortion (45µm) lateral 1.2% vertical 1.7% Output (5cms/sec rms) 8.6mV
That it is. The test doesn't mean that every sample will have that kind of output, but it is very possible that you can get one that has more output than nominally spec'd. You'd have to test several examples from different points in time to see how much variance there is with QA/QC. My guess is they are using some magnets that are stronger than others sometimes, because that's what they get shipped by the supplier. Ortofon is not the only company with this problem, but certainly when things go off track as they did there, the high output is a lot worse than what you get with other brands and can cause problems. For example, some AT cartridges are nominally spec'd to have 3.5mV of output. However, when tested, some samples have more like 4.0-4.3mV of output. Not a huge deal because that is unlikely to cause problems. I should say that after trying a bunch of carts and hearing others, I don't really care for high output cartridges with extreme output levels. To me, these should be reserved for DJ setups that feed into DJ mixers. I think 3-5mV or so (actual, not spec'd) is a good number for a hifi/home listening type cart.
Yeah I wonder whether that is a misprint or something, and whether not those voltages are relative to 3.54cm/sec. If you divide them each by 1.4, you get something like 5.6mv and 6.12mv, which makes a ton more sense.
I had a stock gen 1 JD9 and could not get it to work with my Denon DL-160. Sounded like @ss no matter what settings I tried and I tried them ALL.
Part-time Audiophile editor states 60 dB gain and 175 ohm. I will try this as I have just ordered one
Perfect example of why reviewers shouldn’t be taken too seriously. The SL will sound dark and muffled at this loading.
It says tested at 5 cm/s, could be wrong though Ortofon rates them 5 mV at 5 cm/sec The test is also RMS RMS = peak/sqrt(2) = 0.71 x peak I don't understand the 5 or 3.54 cm/s Is it the tangential velocity? VT = r w, w = ang velocity If we assume r = 10 cm ~ 4" w = 33.333 rev/min / 60 s/min = 0.556 rev/s or 3.5 rad/s So VT = 10 cm x 3.5 rad/s = 35 cm/s ??? using the same r = 10 cm V = 2 Pi 10 cm / rev x 33.333 rev/min = 2094 cm/min = 35 cm/s ???
This 35 cm/s used to be used by Stanton/Pickering outfit to spec their carts. I was really baffled, until someone explained it to me.
I think I get it. It is not the speed along the groove. It must be the lateral 'wiggle' velocity. so it travels 35 cm around the lp in 1 sec But laterally 3.54 (or 5) along the radius And that makes sense since that movement generates the V/power or signal. so in 1 sec for the 1000 Hz test tone D around lp 35 cm/s D laterally 5 Or 5/1000 = .005 cm/Hz or +/- 0.0025 Groove to groove is ~0.006 cm I assume it varies with level, etc. Based on 33-1/3 rpm
