Bob Dylan – The Bootleg Series Vol.16: Springtime In New York (1980–1985) (Content & Sound Quality)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DeeThomaz, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. LonesomeDayBlues

    LonesomeDayBlues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    It’s great to wake up and read that Infidels will be the focus of the next bootleg series!!!

    I remember I got into Infidels in the early 2000s and played this over and over. I love this album worts and all. I remember making various cdrs that included blind willie mctell and foot of pride for an expanded experience. This is going to be wonderful.

    My wishes for this set include hearing stuff we don’t know about, best of rough cuts in excellent sound, about 4-6 discs would be appropriate to the deluxe version, 2 cd set, 3 lp set, and maybe a bobdylan.com exclusive just to get everyone a little irritated! ;)
     
  2. Themigou

    Themigou Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I’d like that too. I love the Bootleg Series - not all of them have been essential and that's just down to taste - it has got a bit lacklustre recently in my opinion. I find the volumes where it’s been possible to release (almost) everything really satisfying - More Blood.., The Cutting Edge, The Basement Tapes, Live 1964 and 1966. Ironically, probably my favourite archival release is the ‘66 box, which isn’t even a BS volume. But I have and enjoy all of them. I also really like ASP for reevaluating a maligned album (I liked getting the Isle of Wight CD as an extra but would have preferred 2 more discs of studio outtakes rather than the album again). I also really like the ‘curated’ Live 1975. I love a lot of TTS, but it now feels like a sampler (like Vols 1-3); I'd prefer 2 or 3 disc sets of Oh Mercy, TOOM and L&T. I found Trouble In Mind a bit messy and would have preferred more studio outtakes. The periods where there's a lot to select from are the presumably the hardest to 'get right' and 3 years of intense activity dominated by new material is a lot to pack into one release, even a 9 disc one. Travelin' Through was disappointing, '1970' less so but both are dominated by two 'special guest' sessions that I'd never been thrilled with. Apologies to anyone that adores them, but at best, they're a curiosity and certainly don't present a very engaged Bob. The JWH, NS and NM session outtakes are fantastic though and, listening to TT for the first time I couldn't understand why the entire album sessions weren't the focus - as it is, TT is the first really disappointing volume because it seems misguided.

    This BS 16 news is great for me though - Infidels was the first new BD album released (just) after I had started really getting into him, and the 'rough cut' outtakes were the first bootleg I really paid attention to (on tape, from Camden market). I spent much of the summer of 1985 listening to the electric Blind Willie Mctell, Foot of Pride (called 'AINT NO GOIN BACK'), Someone's Gotta Hold Of My Heart, Julius & Ethel etc and loved it. I was a bit disappointed with the acoustic BWM on Vols 1-3 in fact, because that electric take is one of my favourite Bob recordings of all. I've always been fond of Infidels but it's certainly uneven. I've always secretly wished it were a double album, with a tracklist something like this:

    Jokerman
    Sweetheart Like You
    Neighbourhood Bully
    Tell Me
    Death Is Not The End
    Man of Peace
    Union Sundown
    Blind Willie Mctell (acoustic)

    License To Kill
    Someone's Gotta Hold Of My Heart
    Lord Protect My Child
    I & I
    Don't Fall Apart On Me Tonight
    Foot Of Pride
    Blind Willie McTell (electric)

    I hope it's all Infidels though - 'the 80s' is more maligned than Self Portrait and with the right approach, could be redeemed, even in the eyes of the music journalists that seem unable to appreciate what there is to love there. Personally, I'd be absolutely delighted with a Down In The Groove set. Anybody heard Sidewalks, Fences and Walls? It's fantastic, as is a lot of the stuff from that album. Anyway, roll on May 2021!
     
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  3. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I wonder if it will be in the expanded box format of 10-14, or if it will follow the recent minimalist approach of 15.

    With respect to Infidels, it makes sense that it will be the focus on a number of levels, one significant reason being that there is apparently a lot of outtake material from the sessions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  4. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I hope the Shot of Love sessions don’t get left behind
     
  5. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    For those more in the know than I am about the Infidels era, a two part question:

    1. how much is there documented that doesn’t currently circulate on bootlegs?
    2. how much do you imagine exists but isn’t documented (e.g. Bjorner and the session books)?
     
    Sean Murdock likes this.
  6. Dark Horse 77

    Dark Horse 77 A Parliafunkadelicment Thang

    I would hope they get included in a future Series that covers the Rundown Period (77-81) but also adds the Clydie duets from 1982. There's some gold left in those Shot sessions.
     
  7. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I have no doubt that there is enough Infidels material for its own volume, but I think there’s a strong case that the SOL sessions are the beginning of the Infidels writing style and there’s even the origins of the Infidels sound in the SOL sessions too (unproduced as they were). That’s all to say: if they choose to group the SOL material in with this set, I won’t be upset. I think it makes lots of sense in fact.
     
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  8. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Thanks to Terry Gans’ book, we’ve can answer these questions with some confidence.

    1. A LOT. Nothing really in terms of “lost songs” but a ton of alternate takes, (often fragmentary) covers, and jams. Certainly enough to support a deep dive box set.

    2. Probably very little, if anything. Terry got to listen to all the extant tapes from the sessions for his book and produced (as close as possible) a definitive sessionography. As I recall, in a few instances he suspected there might be a missing tape here or there but no huge red flags.

    In large part, Gans confirms the general reliability of Krogsgaard’s original work (the basis for much of Bjorner’s listings) but provides important clarifications & corrections.
     
  9. dee

    dee Senior Member

    Location:
    ft. lauderdale, fl
    With a BS Infidels up next, some thoughts on the album proper...

    For Jokerman I can't imagine liking it much better than I do as it is, musically and vocally. I love the lyrics and vocal delivery and the understated but accentuated playing and the deftly mixed instrumentation too. Nice touch of light piano and more in that musical stew.


    Sweetheart Like You I look forward to hearing some other vocal and instrumental takes or verses of also. The guitar outro with keyboards seems to me like it has this 'feel-good' aspect to it that doesn't seem like it suits the mood of the song or vibe of the lyric, imo. It's lovely playing but breezy to the point of too much wind, imo.


    I love the relentless music track and well-timed and precisely phrased vocals for Neighborhood Bully. Other than one verse and a line or two, the lyrics I can't really sympathize or identify with. It seems like a general rant of being misunderstood, or of victim-hood, without much room for either overt specificity or letting the listener into the character, literally or figuratively, of the narrative.


    License To Kill has that enormous 80's snare drum reverb front and center, although that bass guitar sounds awesome underneath it. That smacking drumbeat sound kind of works against the nuance and subtlety the vocal strives to and succeeds in delivering imo. I'd like to hear this performance in a different presentation.


    I think Man of Peace is very much of the musical and lyrical style and ethos of the previous three albums. Got an irresistible groove and some nifty guitar playing but I feel like the song gets on for too long.


    Can do without the vocal echo on Union Sundown so I look forward to hearing it in a new way. Maybe intended as a nod to some rockabilly music perhaps with that 'slapback' vocal effect. I find it distracting from hearing the lyrics as they are or more directly and not filtered through a process that makes them less engaging to my mind.


    Love the sound and delivery of the vocal in I and I. Like the tinkling piano in there. Love the drum and bass groove. I almost wish the vocals were a little more forward they're so good dealing the choruses and verses.


    Return of the somewhat smacking snare sound front and center although it doesn't seem quite as intrusive as it is through License To Kill. Another track I'd really like to hear in a new way too. I look forward to hearing some different mixes and takes of this song. Like that winsome, whimsical harmonica intro. I've come to really like this song, with its soulful, passionate vocals, multiple melodic harmonica breaks, strong melody and 'intimate' lyrics.Plus that late-in-song surprise bridge, with the Clark Gable reference. The chorus lyrics had always bothered me some as the chorus line seemed to me to be ALL ABOUT the singer or narrator with the 'don't fall apart on me' line, directed presumedly at the girl, but if I think of it as an honest 'plea' and sincere 'wish' as opposed to a 'command' then much more palatable, especially appealing, and when followed a few lines later by the even more 'desperate' sounding "I Need You!..."
     
  10. Bink

    Bink Forum Resident

    I am hoping to hear the acoustic version of Jokerman that @Mbd77 mentioned some time ago!
     
  11. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Unfortunately, Gans didn’t seem to encounter any such version in his survey of the tapes, so I’m not optimistic. I’d certainly love to hear an acoustic “Jokerman” too!
     
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  12. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    Among the “hipsters” of today, Infidels has already been redeemed, I’d say.

     
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  13. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I enjoyed reading your opinions on these tracks! Thanks for posting. But I have to point something out: “Neighborhood Bully” is widely accepted as a song about the State of Israel and the situation around Mideast politics at that time. Maybe you know this, but I felt the need to clarify.
     
  14. TheGoodDoctor

    TheGoodDoctor It used to go something like that

    Location:
    London
  15. Dark Horse 77

    Dark Horse 77 A Parliafunkadelicment Thang

    No thoughts on "Don't Fall Apart on Me Tonight"?
     
  16. dee

    dee Senior Member

    Location:
    ft. lauderdale, fl
    Thanks very much for reading it and for the kind word too.

    Honestly I did know the subject or context of Neighborhood Bully, but only vaguely so. I guess in that way I wish he had been more explicit in the song about the topic. I do remember reading about it in the press. I was rather young at the time and not too well-informed or knowledgeable about the situations there.
     
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  17. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    There are songs I consider worse on Infidels, but none I find quite so forgettable. So I’d find it funny if Dee had overlooked it. I might have too. In my head, somehow “I & I” concludes the album, not “Don’t Fall Apart On Me Tonight.”

    I’m hoping there’s an outtake of the song that finally connects with me. But although there were several complete takes of the song recorded, none of the descriptions in the Gans book really made my mouth water.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
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  18. dee

    dee Senior Member

    Location:
    ft. lauderdale, fl
    Yes, it's all that last paragraph, but I foolishly didn't name it as such and only referred back to License To Kill by name.
    Sorry about that. I ended up confusing things I see!
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
  19. Dark Horse 77

    Dark Horse 77 A Parliafunkadelicment Thang

    My bad too, it's right there if my reading comprehension was a little swifter!

    On a side note: I know most find Real Live only good for the revised "Tangled Up In Blue" (which is tremendous) but I love the "I And I" on there too. The rest...kinda falls down when compared to his last several great tours.
     
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  20. MilesTrane

    MilesTrane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moon PA USA
    What if he is pleading to his less strong self not to fall apart while interacting with his romantic interest that evening? What if he really is the one prone to fall apart? Not likely, but I would be able to identify!
     
    dee likes this.
  21. Dave Gilmour's Cat

    Dave Gilmour's Cat Forum Resident

    Maybe a case of “I just don't think that I could handle it”?
     
  22. LonesomeDayBlues

    LonesomeDayBlues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Oh I forgot about the Letterman show and the three performances they did/rehearsals. Would love to have these in great fidelity. Any chance we will get those?
     
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  23. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    I would *love* that. But I’m a little skeptical that the tracks would be available for Sony to license— or at least that they’d be willing to pay to do so. I know there’s a CD of performances from Letterman’s CBS show, but have any performances from the NBC show ever been been released on CD?
     
    Sean Murdock likes this.
  24. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    Infidels could be a great choice. I personally love the album
     
  25. mtruslow

    mtruslow Forum Resident

    Location:
    Towson, Maryland
    I wonder how many of the fans of VP knew this song or who Dylan is.
     

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