Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. Hazey John II

    Hazey John II The lyrics are fine, there's no problem there

    Nothing original to say - I don't love it or hate it. Kind of like the music for all the reasons @jon-senior mentioned; it has a cohesion and drive which carries me along. Godrich earns his money here, hate him or hate him. I like the chorus line the first time it comes around, not so much after that. The video's alright - at least, it was alright when The Verve did it four years earlier. If it had been the band's actual first single, I would never have got into them.

    I don't like the preachy tone of this or most of the second half, but save it for another day - it sort of works if it's a song Neil's whispering to himself, second verse in particular. Also, I'm touched by @Summer of Malcontent's story and I'm sure there are others with similar tales. Reason enough for it. 3/5
    Oh yes! Definitely some kind of resemblance. And what a great song.
    Yep - there are a few interviews about it but here's one:
    How are things with the label in the light of recent developments?
    N: They're really fine, y'know. I was the only signed person 'cos I was the only signed person to Setanta and I think they're satisfied that I know best creatively.

    Hot Press 11/2001
     
  2. RadiophonicSound

    RadiophonicSound Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    Big oof at those “we’re a band” quotes. Talk about going south fast. Probably better than letting it linger, I suppose.

    “Love What You Do”: I feel bad dumping on this song after seeing it be inspirational to others, but...it’s not a favorite. The lyrics come off as silly when performed in the manner Neil is singing them. And the music just sounds generic. 1.5/5
     
  3. A Tea-Loving Dave

    A Tea-Loving Dave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northumberland, UK
    It's not great, but nor is it terrible. Whatever it is, I (haven't) got to love it.

    2.5/5
     
  4. A Tea-Loving Dave

    A Tea-Loving Dave Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northumberland, UK
    Still got to scan in my rough graph showing how polarised the votes for Note To Self were (and the similar one I have done out of sheer boredom for Eye of the Needle) but I've worked out the median score for these two tracks, and Love What You Do (as the other very divisive track we have covered so far) to provide a comparison between how the median and mean averages shape up.....

    I worked the median out as 2.75..... and interestingly, at the present time that is also the current mean!

    The median for this one is 3.5 at present.

    The median for "Love What You Do" is currently 3.3 - so it is actually faring rather better than one might think!
     
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  5. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I wondered if anyone else would pick out that phrase!
     
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  6. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    We will have a late start today, apologies!

    I overslept ...

    ... said nobody with a 10-week old baby, ever.
     
  7. James Cunningham

    James Cunningham Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh, UK
    Love What You Do

    When I first heard this on the CD single release I, like everyone else, was struck by the pared back approach and lack of bombast. But..... I like it.
    It might not be the most adventurous song in the Hannon Canon, but there is enough to keep me interested in the instrumentation and production.

    Neil's vocal approach to Regeneration has always appealed to me, although I understand why others feel differently.

    Not sure about the French single edit though- it took away some of the subtleties of the song and I found it quite jarring.

    4.25/5
     
  8. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Sorry if I offended anyone with my scornful review. I had written it in advance the day before and I didn't realise how much some people like it or love it. Sorry, I tried, but I can't quite hear what you're hearing.
     
  9. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Wonderful story (I feel bad now for disliking it so much... sorry)

    [​IMG]
    (I was just searching for a fabric wall hanging and this came up!:D)
     
  10. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Alright then, today’s song is:

    Dumb It Down

    Track 8 on “Regeneration”.

    Today's a day when I would encourage everyone to read the interview quotes - as it very much seems like Neil is trying to have his dumb cake and eat it too!

    "It's about how the media think the public are idiots. They think the public only want s**t and so that's all they serve them up. But it's not true! Even when they've had a hard day, people want something quality. What's more, intelligent content can be easy-going, just look at the songs of the Beach Boys... " (Newcomer, 2001)

    (Hmm, ok, yes that's what I thought the song was about...)
    ---
    Another track, 'Dumb It Down' sees Hannon taking a pop at the crassness of most contemporary culture ("Intelligence is dangerous/A virus of the brain you pass around")

    "'Dumb It Down' is based on coming home from the studio and there not being anything on telly," he explains. "Because I've got sixty channels on it and generally there's not much happening. The one thing I'm scared about is people getting the wrong end of the stick with that song and thinking that I'm being a total snob. It's not about that at all. In fact, I was watching this programme - I watch a lot of TV! - which was a debate by 'intellectuals' about dumbing down and whether it actually was existing and I came heavily down on the side of those who were firmly based in popular culture and not the total twats who were coming from the supposed arts side of it all. There was one guy saying to the producer of Big Brother, 'you have betrayed your class!' It's just insane, all of this hysteria, which I never want to be a party to." (Hot Press, March 2001)

    (ummm, is it me, or is this "distinctly at odds" with what the previous explanation says?)

    ---

    And a more recent view on the song:

    "I feel like a lot of the songs [On Regeneration] were quite angsty. I am prone to angst. I’m prone to being a bit preachy if I’m not careful. I was less careful on this record. “Dumb it Down” I entirely agree with the sentiment. Brainlessness seems to be lauded these days. And yet I feel embarrassed for having written the song in the way I did, because it’s so on the nose. It’s not very subtle. I tend to go for silver linings, really. I’m not a pessimistic songwriter. I generally try to approach things from a different angle and let other people decide what to take from it themselves rather than just telling them what it’s all about. It was quite different in that regard." (Under the Radar, 2016)

    ( well now I’m probably even more confused ;) )


    Here’s the song, anyway...



     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  11. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Love What You Do:
    I think this is a song that suffers from its context: in the midst of a more typical Divine Comedy album it would come across as a bit of an Eric The Gardener: understated, a bit different, stealthy album track. I’ll give it a 3/5, as it’s not boring.

    Dumb It Down:
    Yes, this is definitely a ‘why is no one making space for intelligence in entertainment’ song - which would work fine in literally any other Divine Comedy album, but Regeneration is the very album where Neil has tried to dumb himself down… “There’ll be no clever-clever references and jokes in this album, guys, but there will be a song that complains that there aren’t enough clever-clever references in songs these days!”. 2/5 - not marking it down for the preachiness, but because it’s a bit dull.
     
  12. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Dumb it Down

    Although we have already had my favourite track, my least favourite track, and all three of the singles at this point, this is nevertheless where the heart of the album really starts for me. Three of these last four tracks feel of a piece to me, almost as if they were part of a suite, and they are what I think of first when I think of this album. If someone mentions this album I don't think of the singles, or the "band" controversy, or Nigel Godrich. I think of how, in the end. with at least some of the album Hennon succeeded in his aim to present some songs that express his serious thoughts at the time, that would sound complete and satisfying when played solo acoustic guitar, and indeed were written that way. Well, to hell with spoilers; obviously I'm referring to "Dumb It Down", "Mastermind" and "The Beauty Regime". Three well-expressed, tuneful, simple "message" songs. Although "Dumb It Down" is the weakest of the three, it's still one of the best songs on the album as a whole.

    I actually agree with the sentiment of the lyric. The phrase had become a cliché and the subject was well-worn, but there had already been such a populist backlash against the idea that "dumbing down" (the phrase was coined by the people who were deliberately doing it) was happening, or that it was a bad thing if it was, that I think it was legitimate and almost brave for Neil to have his say about it.

    4/5
     
  13. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I was going to post the "early live version" from Edinburgh 2000, but on listening to it again, I don't think it's significantly different enough to warrant suffering through the dodgy sound quality!

    Instead, here's a live version of the song from later in the "Regeneration" tour, at a short gig recorded for London's XFM on the 1st October, 2001.

     
  14. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Dumb It Down

    Another fine track. This also has got that soft/loud thing going on, but I think it works better here than on "Note to Self", perhaps because the backing instrumentation sounds fairly similar throughout the song. I like the abrupt ending, and while the melody could have been improved upon, it's still not a track I will refrain from listening to.

    3.7
     
  15. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    It sounds like you agree with Neil's second quote above then, and that he's actually moaning about people constantly saying everything's being dumbed down?

    I have to say I had never heard it like that, although it does make sense. This is what happens when he no longer waves a big "I'm being ironic!" flag on every song... ;)
     
  16. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    No, I think he's saying dumbing down is happening and that that is a bad thing. And I'm saying I agree with him. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

    The second quote I would assume was him adding nuance (a very Neil thing to do, especially when he is asked repeatedly about the same songs). Yes, he's against dumbing down, but watching this particular TV debate the artsy people rubbed him up the wrong way and he found himself taking the other side.He contains multitudes.
     
  17. lazzaa

    lazzaa Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    A pretty forgettable track and one of my least favourite on the album. I don't really read too much into lyrics as I've said before, but I find the closing lines - "does anybody else feel the same as me? Is there anybody listening?" - to sound a bit wanky, but that's just me.

    Musically I think it does a decent job, the picked electric guitar sounds lovely, I like the reverse effect leading into the second verse, the punchy bass is good, I just find the tune entirely forgettable.

    2/5
     
  18. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    To expand on my last post, I think what is bothering Neil in that second interview is the whole wider question of snobbery. It's a fine line between saying culture is dumbed down and intellectual snobbery, and there's a fine line between intellectual snobbery and plain old common or garden snobbery. I personally think it's fine to be an intellectual snob if you take care to disassociate yourself from social class-related snobbery. But it can be a tricky line to walk, especially if you see some pompous blowhard on your side of the debate on TV who you'd really rather not be on the same side as.

    I can see how Neil Hannon, who has been viewed as privileged his whole career, might be very wary of seeming snobbish, and having released this song might be keen to back-pedal and disassociate himself from it almost immediately.
     
  19. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Thank you, that makes a lot of sense! So it's not so much that he's trying to take two opposing viewpoints, more that he has one, but doesn't want people to think he necessarily associates with all the other people who think the same way...
     
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  20. happysunshine

    happysunshine Tillverkningen av Salubrin startades 1893

    Location:
    Earth
    Dumb It Down

    Starting two songs in a row with the sound of an old drum machine isn’t the best of sequencing, is it? It might my imagination playing tricks again, but isn’t this yet another sort of preachy song with an almost condescending tone? ”Intelligence is dangerous” (sarcasm, obviously)? ”Everything is mindless fluff”? Neil had obviously not seen season 13 of the Swedish "Paradise Hotel" when he wrote those lyrics because I can assure you that there are hidden depths to pretty much every contestant on that show if you just stick with it for a few episodes! Er... I have nothing intelligent to say about this song, that’s why I fill it out with stuff about mindless fluff on TV. Perhaps the song is aimed at me? The music is alright but leaves no lasting impression. 2.8323/5
     
  21. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Dumb It Down
    Dear Neil, is this a song complaining about things being dumbed down on an album that in some ways intentionally 'dumbs down' your own approach to music to try to broaden your appeal...?

    :D:D:D

    I also think of these three songs first when thinking of the album. I'm conflicted though; at the time I loved the direct and clear message (not least because it reflected and enhanced my own views), and think they're pretty enough songs; but having listened again, I don't think I've gained anything from these songs that I didn't get 20 years ago. I'm too fond of puzzles and flights of fancy...
    Dear Mr Hannon, I would appreciate it if you could please hide your serious thoughts under layers of irony and cheese, so I can have fun trying to dig them out. Sincerely yours.

    Actually that reminds me of something Neil said in a more recent interview about liking a revealing dress more than full-on nudity (this was used as a metaphor for meaning in songs, not just that he likes it! :D). This album, and these songs in particular, are the latter.

    I actually quite like the woobly Godrich-noises (TM) on this one and it's not unpleasant to listen to, and I do agree with the sentiment, so think I'll give it a dumbed down score of 3.0/5.0


    For some reason this made me chuckle...
     
  22. a paul

    a paul Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I assume that I dislike this song more than I actually do when I listen to it. I like the whole feel and sound to it, although it's never be a favourite of mine. 3.8.
     
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  23. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Dumb It Down:

    Just ok for me. 2.9/5
     
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  24. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Well, not everyone loved what they did, as “Love What You Do” scored 60.25 from 20 votes, for a preliminary score of:

    3.01

    (ouch, those two zeroes were brutal!)
     
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  25. rediffusion

    rediffusion Forum Resident

    Dumb It Down: 3.25
     

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