The Technics SL-1200 GAE/G/GR general questions thread

Just moved my ATPTG33/ii onto my 1200gr and I have to say it sounds fantastic. I had bought the 1200 for my living room and planned to leave the modded P3 in the listening room, but today I made the swap and I’m glad I did. I’d be lying if I said the difference was huge, but at minimum the 1200gr sounds just as good in the main system and really works well with the cart.

 

So, this is not a good match then with the VM95 ML/SH? (How bad is it?)

 

No. Way off.

 

All this matching stuff confuses me so much and I can't be the only one! Other than the resonance frequency, what else matters? when you get a perfectly matchin arm/cartridge is there an aha! moment, and if so why?
because my shure v15 (iii) with 7hz rf sounds just fine to me and I wonder what I'm missing out on, especially when organ records have nice low lows through my active sub, all the highs are there, etc, what more is there?
I just feel as though people are being put off systems that will actually sound perfectly fine by maths-based confusion!

 

At least for the 1200 series, the whole tone arm cart resonant freq match in my opinion is overplayed, and it doesn’t help when it seems like there’s this echo chamber of comments online to support it’s importance. When I had the AT740ML prior to getting the KAB damper, I experienced zero issues on feedback or warps or tracking and felt the sound was excellent, even though the measurements tell us the res freq is a bit on the low side. The deck itself is engineered with enough robustness to mitigate a lot of those issues.

if one were to experience a cart mismatch, the KAB damper should nullify it. But I don’t think it’s necessary in the majority of cases.

 

In my case, I'm asking about a pre-amp impedance mismatch, (I bought a 1500 for the family room, and a VM95SH, and I did not buy a separate preamp). I suppose I am about to experience how far off it is, in person.

 

sorry I missed that connection! You might experience a somewhat increasing response in the upper end treble but even that is debatable if you’d even hear it. Those ATs prefer lower capacitance on the phono input side, but like you said you’re going to find out soon and I hope you’ll enjoy the sound.

 

Bought a SL1200GR during my 'time out' lol

Also earned the $ to pay for with side work and got 2-3 years of CEU's done. Also adjusted bias on my MA6300, spec 20-25 mV, one channel was good, one way out, 60 mV, got both ~ 22 mV.

I found 2 places with a few. Very smooth transaction with Rock and Soul DJ, a 45+ year old company, perhaps largest DJ supplier in the US (world)?). I have 0 affiliation.

My experience:
I emailed Wed afternoon, re: stock inquiry.
Response within an hour: affirmative.
Me: thanks, want to sleep on it,
Response: let us know if you need anything.

The next morning I called and asked what was the easiest way to do it, they said PayPal invoice, 15 minutes later I received it and paid it (after CC company called to verify). a few hours later I got paid invoice with tracking info. No tax, free shipping. Arrived Monday double boxed.

It is quality. While waiting I decided to get a table for it rather than use my wall platform. Not concerned about strength (moment & reaction are well below limits) but rather vibration from a cantilever under tension. Found an end table, made in 1962, mid-century modern. $20! Heavy as heck with a 1" thick removable marble (?) top, very handy for access. My vibration app shows zilch. Put some Isonodes under the butcher block. Also rubbed the cabinet down with oil.

Drilled 4 x 2" holes in the back at the bottom:
Power, digital, phono, speakers, 5" on center.
Put my MA6300 in it. Measured the temp with my Fluke TC, 110 deg F, drilled 8 x 2" in the back at the top, dropped it 10-15 deg. Cut an opening in the bottom sized per Mac spec (same as case) dropped it to 80-85 max.

Next a cartridge: had a budget (1700 + 170 + 20 + 100 + 12 + 50 ~ $2000, right on target, lol) so needed one <$200. Found the cheapest, highest rated in the Stereophile recommended list (I know, no love for that list by some): Goldring E3. Read some reviews, very positive.

Spec is 100-200 pF loading: mine, amp ~65, tonearm~25, so I got a 3' LC-1 ~ 40, total ~ 130. When plugged into a response calculator +0, -1 to 20 kHz. I may not have needed it though. When it arrived it measured 35-40, the 2 m oem Technics measured only 75-80! Oh well, live and learn. The resonance ~8 Hz, excursion and acceleration are good.

After I hooked it all up I noticed a small hum from 1 channel at 75% volume. Isolated it to the Loki. Scratched my head a while then looked at my amps service manual. I thought the xfmr was in the rear, nope, in the front, right under the Loki. Moved it around, raised it on some spacers, now it's dead silent at 100%.

Repurposed the wall mount for my notebook set-up.

My remote did not work (obviously) so got a cheap repeater off Amazon, mounted it inside the door in from of the amps receiver. The repeater receiver is on the TT bracket.

All is well, wife is happier with the hidden gear. Nearing the end, might do a HOMC cartridge down the road. Listening impressions later, but even to my tin ears it is a noticeable improvement.

 

One decision was how to align the cartridge. I used the Technics jig. Not sure why folks say it's difficult to use? There is a sight notch on the bottom, so I looked that way, not side ways. I started it at an angle so I saw the end of the 'prong', then rotated until I could not see the edge and was looking thru the notch, meaning perpendicular and no parallax. I set it so I saw the stylus thru the notch.

I used my Cart-Align. I found the Baerwald spec and mic'ed the Cart-Align null points and they matched. Overhang was different though.
It sounds great. I have maybe 12 hours on it.

Set tracking at 2 with a digital scale (Technics was close, ~1/8th off). Set anti skate at 2, then video'ed head on while cuing the stylus slowly.
It flicked out so lowered it to 1.75, that seemed let it jump straight up.

Initial impressions (could be cartridge or TT, likely both). Much more focused sources, less 'fuzz' or blur around them, more space. Soundstage is improved, wider and more stable. Bass is much better, deeper and better tone. The more I listen the more I discern.
Placebo or real? Likely both, don't care, sounds better to ME.

 

If it’s even close to my experience with the preamp on my Yamaha, which is 440pf, so a little higher than yours, it will not be pleasant. My wife literally asked me what was wrong with the new amp. “No idea, sounded good earlier when I tested it with a CD.” Swapped in the external pre I’d been using with my receiver and everything was fine.

 

You need a phono pre that does 100pf or lower with the AT cartridges. My view is Yamaha should just not include a preamp that does not suit most cartridges.

 

I listened to a few familiar albums last night and this morning. A few observations.
-volume setting needs to be higher due to cartridge output for the same SPL level
-I can now listen at a slightly higher volume, less harsh and less fatigue. Previously 65 dBA range, now closer to 70 dBA

Likely due more to the cartridge.

 

Don’t worry about it if you’re not having any issues. Not sure the specs are always correct, and the math doesn’t really work. It really needs to be tested with a good test record (and I’m frankly not sure there are any currently in production).

A compliance mismatch is pretty obvious in my experience. My NOS Stanton 981 and Pickering 5000 cartridges (compliance of 30) don’t work well on the Technics tonearm without the KAB damper, and will skip on the most minuscule piece of dust. However, both perform perfectly with damping.

The Ortofon OM 40 is also supposedly high compliance at 25, but works perfectly on the Technics arm without damping.

 

Great point. I've found with vinyl and turntable setup that issues are really obvious, but at least with the technics the tolerances appear to be a little more forgiving due to the overall robustness of the design, which is why I really feel these decks are well suited for those just getting into vinyl and/or simply don't want to mess with going through extreme lengths for optimal set up.

 

In theory both my VM540ML and my MP-500 would have sub-optimal resonance in my GR but I never noticed any issues.

 

It would be interesting to see someone accurately measure the VM540ML / Technics SL-1200G/GR combo and post a spectrum showing the resonance frequency. Or even just upload a few moments of recorded audio while playing a record without a heavy subsonic filter applied, and someone here could do the anlysis. Probably been done somewhere, but haven't seen it here.

But I tend to agree with most, unless the compliance match is pretty bad, it doesn't hurt the presentation that much. Or at least it is difficult to pick out any problem areas without a way to vary the mass/compliance ratio. Some arms do provide variable mass and/or damping, so that makes it much easier to dial in the best match for your arm and cartridge.

 

the OM 40 compliance is 35
Ortofon OM Series

Based on
Cartridge 5 grams
Compliance 35
Arm 4.5 gram
Headshell 7.5 + 0.5 screws, etc. 8 grams

This says you are good
Compliance/Effective Mass Calculator

 

For compliance, I think it's always best to measure the resonance rather than relying on factory specs, especially Japanese specs which cannot be converted accurately. Having a low resonance number is not necessarily a deal breaker either. You need to observe the tracking performance on your own records, and see if there is any problem. If there is anything odd occurring and the cart is vibrating like mad, then you might have an issue. Different tonearms will also tolerate a sub-optimal match differently.

In general I would just try to avoid gross mismatches, like putting a stiff suspension cart on a featherweight arm.

 

Ah, but this one says 25, and this one says 22. All with the same stylus! Which is correct? Who knows without measuring?

 

There can also be batch to batch variation, depending when and where you purchase a stylus. Goldring stiffened up the suspensions of their 1000 series carts a few years back, yet there are still dealers selling old stock versions that are noticeably more compliant.

 

Yeah, I bet Ortofon stiffened the suspension because they probably just use the same rubber for all of them, OM and 2M series included. Notice the worse tracking figure of 80uM on the 40 stylus now. When the OM40 was still in production it was 95uM and 35 compliance.

 

Anyone with experience know if the Dynavector 10x5 mkii is particularly hard to install on the 1200G ? I only ask because I remember the AT440mla being really relatively simple to install on my old 1200 MK5. My Denon DL110 was much harder it seemed. ....

 

That seems to be a reasonable explanation. I've also heard some of those styli may have trouble meeting the actual factory spec by a bit lately.

 

Never used one but any cart with threaded screw inserts is typically easier to install than those without, IME. I'd leave the stylus guard on until you are down to the very last step of fine tuning alignment.

 

do you have an Super OM 40 or OM 40?
Stock stylus or replacement stylus?

Regardless that calculator says good for all three: 22, 25 or 35