Do I have to decide between having an automatic turntable and a good turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Oscillation, Apr 29, 2021.

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  1. PFA

    PFA Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    The lack of a high-end automatic or semi-automatic turntable on the market is ridiculous. Manufacturers would have you believe that a turntable is worth tens of thousands of dollars due to their precision design manufacturing to make a plinth and a platter that turns at a constant speed, yet they are unable to design one with a simple device that lowers the arm down on the record at the beginning, and then lifts the arm up at the end of the record and returns it to the holder. How ridiculous is that?

    I do not know anyone who would not rather have an automatic turntable than one in which you have to manually deal with the arm. It really is so much safer for expensive cartridges/needles/records to have the lowering of the arm and lifting at the end done automatically. How many people have missed the run in groove when manually lowering an arm down on a record? Have you damaged the record by lowering it into a play groove? And how much damage is done with letting a needle wear down by staying in the run off groove at the end of a record longer than necessary? You can hear the needle popping in the groove, over and over, until you lift it up. It is really just poor design by manufacturers not to have all turntables be automatic. And that's my humble opinion!!!
     
    cnolanh, Angel66, Dred and 8 others like this.
  2. FalseMetal666

    FalseMetal666 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I used a super clean Technics SL-1300 for at least 10 years without a single problem before I upgraded to a SL-1200M3D, fully kitted out by KAB.

    The KAB 1200 is definitely an upgrade but not as much as you might think. The 1300 is a terrific table and you can get a museum quality one for less than $300 if you look around.
     
  3. Alright4now

    Alright4now Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Buy one of these and stop yer bellyaching!

    THE Q UP - Automatic tonearm lifter for manual turntables and tonearms - thorens q-up audio technica AT6006a
     
    Daddy Dom, sturgus, hifisoup and 3 others like this.
  4. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    Read my reply a few before yours. It’s the crap attached to the tone arm under the deck that limit sonic performance.
     
    trd and Uglyversal like this.
  5. Wngnt90

    Wngnt90 Forum Resident

    It's simple really....he wants one.
     
    csgreene and timind like this.
  6. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Would Stevie Wonder's Innervisions be one of them? Cuz that thing is packed pretty tight, and gets a lot of playtime here, kids included.
     
  7. VintageVibe

    VintageVibe Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey
    Thorens has put out a very nice and attractive fully automatic table. The TD 148a. It is a belt driven, suspended deck that comes with a glass platter, felt mat, and an 11gr tonearm derived from the TP 92, their top tonearm which was originally shipped with the TD 309. The arm was developed specifically for full auto functionality. That arm is very capable and comfortable with higher end MC carts such as their new TAS 1600. It plays 33 / 45/ 78 and also accepts any RCA's.

    Performance is outstanding. The auto feature is 100% consistent and perfectly quiet. And yes, when you're in the kitchen, on a call or asleep on the couch, it has you covered. For the purists, there are other options.
     
  8. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I wasn't aware there is any shortage on ebay and everywhere else. I even have a Technics changer that can stack several records and play one after the other.

    [​IMG]
     
    Wngnt90, SandAndGlass and Dale A B like this.
  9. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    My current cheapo AT LP60....Lifts up on a dime when it hits the runout.
     
    dom91932, vwestlife and timind like this.
  10. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Then what are you fuzzing about, you have what you wanted?
     
  11. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Well minimally something with a changeable cartridge and a tone arm balance.
     
    Chiliarches and Big Blue like this.
  12. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

  13. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    I prefer a vintage table with at least auto-return, but I only listen to records I had back in the day. They sound fine to me for the casual type listening I do. Pretty amazing how well they work when you consider they're 40 years old.
     
    SandAndGlass, csgreene and patient_ot like this.
  14. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Some of the fully automatic second hand Technics available will be a lot better than your current one and do everything you want. I second the other poster suggestion for a SL1300 but several others in that line will fit the bill and can be had in great condition for about $300.
     
    Oscillation likes this.
  15. rockin_since_58

    rockin_since_58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Simi Valley, CA
    Move up to the AT-LP3 but how is your wife going to feel about this?

     
    Oscillation likes this.
  16. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    Well my original comment was a bit vague. I think the bottom line is there is a very limited market for what you want. Kind of like all of us complaining about how you can’t buy a car with a CD player any more :)
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  17. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    Yeah, my initial comment was a bit obtuse. I’m really getting at the fact there is no market for what he wants, which my brief comment failed to properly convey. Mew culpa :o
     
  18. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Those are the two brands I grew up with though...:My dad had B&O's and me and my friends had Duals. I remember the last B&O my dad had would actually find the tracks, there was like a little arrow button where you could advance the tracks automatically.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  19. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Haha! She's pretty much surrendered :D After I got my new amp with the tubes up front and she listened to it she was along for the ride :)
     
    rockin_since_58 likes this.
  20. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I understand, but I'm trying to help you in a practical way here. Dual is fine with the caveats I mentioned.

    Here is one Dual specialist. There are others.

    Welcome to FixMyDual
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  21. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Looks like a contender, but I am having trouble finding where it’s made in order to confirm it’s not just another cheap OEM from Thorens with a nice feature added to justify a $2k price. If it is legit and well-made, though, it’s an interesting option.
     
  22. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    I get it and I'm actively looking at what you and another member have now suggested. The Dual sounds like a FIAT, i.e. Fix It Again Tony. And the B&O's were indeed a bit special!
     
  23. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Among automatics that are good, I will say that for the most part, the Japanese DD were the most reliable. They made tons of them, so parts usually aren't impossible to find either. A shop near me takes loads of older Japanese decks in trade, even the occasional belt drive like an AR, but won't touch Dual anymore. The owner doesn't have time to work on them. You need a specialist for that. I wouldn't say they are unreliable necessarily once properly serviced but most people will never shell out for that. They try to DIY and some are successful while some are not. You've been warned.

    RE: phono stages, nothing to fear. Get a simple cheap thing with little to no settings. You plug it in and attach a ground wire. Not hard. You know how to read instructions? If so, you'll be fine.
     
  24. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    The way I see it is that most people can't afford a good turntable with automatic or even semi-automatic features. A cheap good turntable is $300. While in today's world, $300 is not a lot of money. Look at U-turn which kickstarted in 2014 and sold a decent turntable for $150 and would eventually make it to the retail market at $179. The price hasn't changed since then. There seems to be a $200 threshold to which people starting out are unwilling to go beyond. So, if people are buying fully manual units to save a few dollars, where is this market for more automation? I would argue that it doesn't exist. Or it does, it's so small nobody is going to make any money selling them. It's not like you can't get an automatic deck. AT has sold a lot of LP60/LP60X models. But it's about the same quality as BSR record changers were in the '70s. You can make an automatic, but it's just not going to hold the tolerances that a good turntable requires to sound good. Mind you, the turntable is up against CD players that have the same automation and have more features like track skipping that cost under $100. And if you look at thrift shops, you'll find $20 ones all day long. We could argue that disabled people should have the right to listen to records, but, it's not like there aren't any used turntables out there that are fully automatic. I have a $40 Q-Up on my P5. It works fine. It picks up the tonearm when it gets to the end of the record. It's all I need. I don't need anything to return the tonearm. I'm going to walk over to the turntable to flip or change records. Automation isn't going to solve this problem unless I'm willing to spend car money on a Jukebox. Crosley has one that holds 10 LPs and it costs $14k. Sorry, for $14k, I'm buying a lot of records. I could even afford those fancy 1Step and UHQR ones. Thorens and Denon have fully auto deck that sell for $400+. But I think people are rushing out to get them. The fact is that these models exist, but there isn't much of choice. Technics probably sold the lion's share of decent turntable with automated features back in the day. But they seem resistant to selling them again. Instead they're selling stuff that brings in $1k. And why would they get back into the sub $500 market? When they left the turntable business, they weren't selling any of them and since they've returned, Pro-Ject and even Rega have filled that gap with manual decks. This proposed market doesn't exist. Maybe it will in a few years. But I tend to think something like the SL-100C with auto-lift is about as far as any manufacturer is willing to go. Things like the Q-Up add this functionality for the price of a couple of new records. And if you're speeding SL-1200 money, then you can add this feature for $300 with the Tru-Lift. This might seem like a lot of money, but you're getting the SL-1200 without any of the engineering costs to add this feature. So you pay extra for it. I doubt Technics would sell the SL-1200 with this feature for less than a $300 mark up.

    Integrityhifi Tru-Lift Automatic Tonearm Lifter - Model for Technics 1200 | Audio Advice Online | Reverb
     
  25. Gregalor

    Gregalor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Almost every day I see someone with a video of their automatic on the fritz, begging for help. You can keep it, I’ll stick with one less thing that can break.
     
    trd and Jimi Floyd like this.
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