Needledrop recording: "MOTU M2" vs "Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen"

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BrilliantBob, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v Thread Starter

    Location:
    Romania
    My choice is MOTU M2. Better ADC/DAC, lower noise, the loop function (you can record and mix any sound your PC can get from internet and stream all together).

    The opinion I made is from specs and reviews, but I didn't tested myself none of the devices.

    Are you kind enough to share your own experiences with these digital interfaces?

    Thanks.
     
    Rockin' Robby likes this.
  2. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    A LP is only going to have 12-13 ENOB when you get down to brass tacks, thus either should work fine if properly set up with your recording software and such.
     
  3. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v Thread Starter

    Location:
    Romania
    Yes, I know, but a poor ADC add its own noise to the needledrop and give mud to the sound. Some cheap ADCs with SINAD -70-80 dB add a 1 KHz spike and harmonics of annoying noise and lot of THD+N. A high quality ADC must output 17-20 ENOB (<0.0095% THD+N).
     
    Rockin' Robby likes this.
  4. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Either of those ADCs should have over 100dB SINAD if working properly.
     
  5. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Bob that Simple Minds sample I provided awhile back in that 45 vs 33 thread, I believe you commented on was done with a 2i2 Gen2
     
  6. Danilo

    Danilo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milano Italy
    Sorry for the OT, I question you needledrop experts: Can I connect my pre-phono to my laptop via an rca to usb cable and record needledrops with Audacity, or I must have an ADC convertitor in between pre-phono and the computer? Be patient I am completely green when it comes to the cyber world
     
  7. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That won't work. Some folks use an RCA to single 1/8'' stereo jack to the line in jack on a computer, but that won't work on every computer and in many cases the on-board soundcard is low quality. If you want phono preamp to USB you will need an audio interface of some type.
     
  8. Danilo

    Danilo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milano Italy
    Thank you, in two sentences you have clarified all my doubts, I have spent the whole afternoon searching on the internet. Much appreciate it. Best regards
     
    coltranes and patient_ot like this.
  9. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    share us your settings where you find your truest dac on the RCA out.
    I use 44100 on 1024 if I have a high resolution album. To the RCA out either playback or recording, it sounds very close to a well amplified vinyl.
    or 44100 on 256 is always my standard. The built in dac I could never ask for anything more. But if the file is not recorded well. it can sound like a plastic digital.
    .. What setting do you normally use?
    I haven't got around the performer plus yet. What is your take on the software and what is its strongest point?
     
  10. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    This is almost what you need, seems like adding a 1/8” to rca adapter would do the trick.

     
    Danilo likes this.
  11. BrilliantBob

    BrilliantBob Select, process, CTRL+c, CTRL+z, ALT+v Thread Starter

    Location:
    Romania
    The MOTU M2 digital interface I use is very quiet. Clean and sound. PCM 192/24-bit max. resolution.The noise floor induced by MOTU itself is -97 dBFS total RMS. The aggregated noise floor induced by preamp + interface (Cambridge Alva Duo, Motu M2) in needledrop is -90 dBFS total RMS. RCA interconnects. XLR interconnects must get better values.

    These are good values and the recording chain may be considered transparent. This noise can be easily removed in post-processing stage with software.

    MOTU M2 ADC: AK5552...............(S/N 115 dB, S/(N+D) -106 dB)
    MOTU M2 DAC: ES9016 Sabre.....(S/N 124 dB, S/(N+D) -110 dB)

    The maximum vinyl SNR is 60-65 dB around. The master tapes SNR is limited to 70 dB.

    Here are the 24-bit spectrograms.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Thanks for the response. I haven't taken measurement on my M4 but so far Ive done so many recordings in it. After I got it all ripped to lossless the output is very clear, punchy and warm. It sounds like I ran it through a high dollar mixing board then analog output. Best recording Ive done so far.
    I was playing with the setting last night. Ive recorded Phil Collins Seriously Live - Berlin 1989. The sound is just totally amazing. Very nice midrange holographic 3D sound on my system. The bass is just phenomenal with extended highs and its clear with warmth....
    In regards to my remaining LP that I haven't ripped yet.. Now it makes me feel I wanna buy the best sounding cartridge for my turntable in recording purpose. I wanna rip the original non-remastered albums and transfer it my high fidelity cassette deck.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  13. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Great info! Thanks Bob. I am looking at the Motu M2 as well. It seems there is no better interface in this price range?
     
  14. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I have a question when youre digitizing you LP. Do you plug in to the 2 front XLR / 1/4 input or you use the back side?
    When I did my cassette mixes, I use the back side. The only time I used the front is when I plug in an instrument. I was wondering if you ever try to plug in the front with your LP and does it sound better?
    Thanks,,,,
    I use either digital performer or performer lite and its an M4 basically the same as the m2
    Thanks,,,

    Theres probably more but just the software, supports and webinar that came with it is worth like a million bucks. Plus the unit itself is great!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2022
  15. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I have been using the front inputs on the M2 to digitize LPs and it is sounding great! Would recommend.
     
  16. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Okay then. Using preamp if I'm correct?
    Thanks,,,
     
  17. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    I have the 2i2 and it works perfect ... I don't find any difference with the original sound.

    Many times I used the Audacity monitor option and let the vinyl running through digital :) ... do you know other player that works direct from the USB interface? I mean, a simple player not a complete DAW, like foobar but playing the USB stream, not a recorded file.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  18. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I was told by the motu company just use a windows media player for playback. He says its the same sound quality.
    I'm not sure for I haven't tried it. I'm using a recording software player on tracks.
     
    Mike70 likes this.
  19. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Correct.
     
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  20. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I didn't know that the motu is also an excellent on the fly playback sound card. I hooked it up to my 300b amp. sounds amazing!
     
    Rockin' Robby likes this.
  21. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I'm about to buy the Universal Audio Volt2. From all the comparisons i've heard, it has better sound than the 2i2. It also features MIDI ports if you wanted to use them. And, it apparently doesn't have the Windows driver bug.
     
  22. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I'm just gonna put the node 2i in the living room since I don't really listen there a lot. Not saying the motu is better but I prefer using it more as a playback to my 300b amp. Its just warm and real. Pretty sure there are lots of better interface. Since I use the m4, I can record 2 different sets of music tracks at the same time. How awesome is that? Super nice on reel to reel recordings too.
    Love Me Now
    and

     
  23. GordonM

    GordonM Forum Resident

    Location:
    N.Ireland
    I recently got the Motu M2 which I have been using on Linux - Mint 20.3 (Una) with kernel 5.4. I’ve done some limited Needledrop recording using Audacity and have had some success with that. (You can check out the “Needledrop best practice thread” to see a few queries and replies on that.)

    However, I have discovered that the DAC capability does not work correctly in the I hear bad digital artefacts periodically through both the monitor headphone socket and the monitor RCA out. The artefacts are hard to describe but are very obvious and clearly ebb and flow. From a bit of web searching I think this issue may be fixed by various kernel changes which have been added since 5.4. I did roll forward to kernel 5.15 and did not observe the same thing. I understand kernel 5.11 may be where these various patches may have been introduced.

    But, for now, due to various constraints I won’t permanently roll forward to 5.15 and am sticking with 5.4 - so I’m not using the DAC feature. The ADC capability is why I purchased the device and as long as that works (which it seems to do), I’m content. I have not tried to find if there are any Pulse audio workarounds.

    Anyway, I’m simply posted this here for future reference for anyone trying a similar setup on Linux. Perhaps someone will have more detail or corrections to my diagnosis which they may wish to post.
     
    Classic Car Guy likes this.
  24. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I havent experience it so far and thank god. Great to know and thank you so much for posting.
     
    GordonM likes this.
  25. GordonM

    GordonM Forum Resident

    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Thanks. Motu do not even have a non-Windows/non-MAC selection option for the OS when you are registering your product, so using Linux is, as usual, out on a limb.

    To clarify my post above I am talking about when Monitor function is disengaged and the unit is being used as a USB DAC from Linux with the kernel version I’m using.

    Edit: Removed accidental Quote. Apologies to the quoted member!
     

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