Willsenton R8 KT88/EL34 x4 Tube Integrated Amp Power Amplifier Headphone : China-hifi-Audio online store, Yaqin,Meixing Mingda,XiangSheng,Line Magnetic Tube Amplifier, power amp, preamp,hi-fi CD Player high end audio for sale [MUIA9832268] - $893.18 USD Heads-up: this is a very, very long post. The factual /setup stuff is first, the listening stuff is lower down. As threatened indicated elsewhere, here are some observations about the Willenton R8 Tube Integrated Amplifier which I've now had for a few days. Mine was ordered with the default KT88 power tubes although that can be changed to EL34s at the time of ordering. Taking into account observations in other reviews about the tonal differences between the tube types, I ordered a separate set of EL34 tubes at the same time. The purchase was intended for a second system but more of that later. What arrived? A fairly large box weighing close to 30Kgs. The unboxed unit is approx 26Kgs. The extra tubes (i.e. EL34s) came in a separate box. Opening the (main) box reveals a second box, firmly held in place by the sort of shaped foam protection usually seen around the actual hi-fi units inside boxes. In short, well packed and well protected. Inside: - R8 amp (silver/black for me) + tube cage cover (black) - Power cord - 2 spare fuses - Tubes, individually packed in bubble wrap within flexible (but fragile!) gauze - Remote - batteries not supplied - Mini screwdriver (for biasing) - Manual The R8 has 3 line inputs plus a pre-in input (all RCA). Three of the four pairs were sleeved in plastic dust caps. There is one set of speaker posts but with separate positive (red) binding posts for 4 ohms and 8 ohms respectively. There is a headphone socket (6.3mm) on the left side of the amp. There is no digital connectivity. The spacing between the RCA inputs on the back of the R8 is excellent - no need to worry about some of the chunkier RCA plugs being too big to fit. The R8 takes KT88 or EL34 power tubes (setting needs to be switched), as well as 6550s which use the same setting as KT88s. The product manual contains a table showing replacement tube compatibility. Installing the tubes takes time but is easy - care needs to be taken not to mix up the 6SN7 and 6SL7 tubes. The tubes supplied with the R8 are marked (v1 to v9 respectively) but replacements won't be. The R8 operates in either triode or ultra-linear mode and this can be switched on-the-fly whilst listening. There are no tone or balance control knobs on the R8. The remote: volume (+ mute); input selector; TR/UL toggle. There is no on/off/standby. When installing batteries (not supplied) into the remote, it isn't the usual slot-and-slide. A Phillips screwdriver is needed (i.e. in addition to the one supplied for biasing) to unscrew the bottom end-plate of the remote in order to access an internal tray within which the batteries are placed. Care needs to be taken when pulling the tray back far enough to provide sufficient access to install the batteries - the internals of the remote could be damaged if done too roughly. Once the batteries have been placed in the tray and the tray pushed back into the main body of the remote, the bottom end-plate needs to be screwed back into place. Once done of course, you're good for a year or two but there is surely a better option than this palava. IMO, future versions of the remote would benefit from a more conventional design. Alternatively, change the bias screws in the R8 to Phillips screws (easier to locate than flathead screws) and change the screwdriver so it can do both the biasing and the battery end-plate. When turned on, the R8 takes 15-30 seconds to warm up, indicated by an orange / red LED on the volume knob. Once the LED is no longer orange / red, you're good to go. In the dark, the same LED shows as a relatively dim green. Although the product manual doesn't help a great deal here, biasing is fairly straight forward. The R8 is my first valve/tube amp but I had no difficulty in biasing - I just took some time. A couple of operational observations... The source selector (i.e. CD / Aux 1 / Aux 2 / Pre-In) always starts with CD when turning on the R8, even if turned off with a different source input. Similarly, the default start-up mode is triode, even if ultra-linear was in use when turning off the unit. Also, changing the volume with the remote tends to result in larger jumps (up or down) than most other remotes I've experienced. The listening experience Although purchased for a second system, it was too tempting not to try out the R8 with the speakers in the main system (Dynaudio Special 40s). So, the initial setup comprised the R8, the S40s and, initially, a Cocktail Audio X10 as the source (analogue out). Music listened to with the R8 has ranged between the melodic rock (no metal so far) to light rock to ambient to pop to instrumental classical. With the KT88 tubes in use, the "virgin" track for the R8 was "Brothers In Arms" by Dire Straits. I wasn't feeling too great so only intended to play a couple of tracks just to check the R8 didn't have any immediate issues. It was four hours later when I came up for air and tea (or was it coffee?). However, an issue observed by others had become apparent. Overall, I'd really enjoyed listening to music through the R8. Based on that first listening session, a decent soundstage with nicely balance upper frequencies and mids was/were evident. But, with the KT88s, bass output was seriously heavy and thumpy - as other reviewers have noted. For me, it was too much. The following day (day 2), I switched to the EL34s which made a huge difference. [from a different thread] With the KT88s, music came across as being "in your face". Imagine a classroom where most are behaving "normally" (whatever that may mean), a few are somewhat boisterous and one or two are distinctly OTT. For me, the KT88s created a boisterous character, sometimes bordering on the OTT with elements of music being overemphasised. By comparison, the EL34s offer a much more cohesive listening experience without "histrionics" but still having character of the right kind. The KT88s will be kept as temporary cover or (less likely) for A-B purposes but it's hard to see them ever being a long-term option with the R8 in my system(s). Just for completeness, I listened in both triode and ultra-linear mode and the bass emphasis was even more notable in UL mode. Later, on day 2, a Bluesound Node 2i arrived (B-stock, nice saving) having been bought specifically as the source for the second system. Out came the Cocktail Audio, in went the Node 2i with the R8 still hooked up to the S40s. Immediately noticeable was the difference in music presentation when comparing the output from the Cocktail Audio to the output of the Node 2i. The soundstage was wider with the Node 2i but there was less definition in the lower frequencies. After a couple of days, some tweaking commenced. Firstly, using the onboard tone controls of the Node 2i, the treble was slightly upped and the bass slightly reduced. That helped. Lower frequencies were still a touch "spongy" but less so. Up to this point, most of the listening with the EL34s had been done in triode mode. Switching to UL mode made a further difference to the LFs (firmer), small but definite and, for me, an improvement. Suffice to say, I really really like the R8 setup overall. Unsurprisingly, I did an A-B between the R8 and my existing main system (NAD C 658 pre / streamer / DAC + PS Audio Stellar S300 power amp). With the above mentioned tweaks in place, it is a surprisingly close call. Even allowing for the possible influence of "buyer justification" still being a factor, I'm pretty confident of this being objective: the NAD/PS Audio offers slightly more detail and resolution in the upper and mid frequencies, more so with lower frequencies. The soundstage of the R8 is notably bigger (width, depth, height) and the overall presentation is slightly warmer. Having switched back to the R8 after listening to the NAD/PS Audio, I had no immediate desire to move the R8 to its "second system" location. I just don't want to move it. Despite some external factors affecting the enjoyment (and amount) of listening to music, what I am hearing with the R8 is thoroughly enjoyable. I've not reached a definitive conclusion yet but maybe, just maybe, the audio conveyed by the R8 is just that fraction more "musical". For example, the decay of a piano note or acoustic guitar just lingers that tiny bit longer. In rock music (usual suspects), lead guitars generally sound fatter with the R8 which I tend to like but know there will be others who prefer a sharper, edgier presentation. For some music, "lush" would be a fair description but, at least IMO, it definitely doesn't mean "mush". Is it possible the R8 could end up in the main system, usurping the NAD & PS Audio? Honestly, that hasn't been ruled out. But, I'll wait to see if this is just the temporary effect of lingering "buyer's justification". Will there be more tweaks? Well, tube rolling is one rabbit hole I'm hoping to avoid! But, I already have a PSU upgrade kit on the way for the Node 2i and it will be interesting (to me at least) to hear what difference, if any, that makes. Also, further down the road, an external DAC for the Node 2i? Maybe. The Denafrips Pontus II looks mighty tempting and whilst that might be overkill for a second system, it certainly wouldn't be for the main system . To wrap up with a couple of miscellaneous matters. Other reviewers have said, amongst many other things, different SL7 tubes will affect the audio character. I haven't rolled those tubes and, barring a cheap opportunity, I probably won't. Also, the dynamics of the R8 have been described as "...not super fast but not too slow...". The latter I would broadly agree with but with a caveat: it will vary hugely depending on tubes, mode and external source units. At the time of posting, I hadn't listened to the headphone output. I may or may not update later. Above all, happy listening all.
An update... Having been broadly happy with the EL34s mentioned above (Willsenton branded), it seemed like a good idea to have a spare set of EL34s but this time sourced more locally (UK). A set of Tung-Sol EL34B valves duly arrived and, of course, had to be checked to make sure they weren't faulty. The TS valves have stayed and the spares are now the Willsenton branded EL34s. Despite intending to leave well alone, I also swapped the Willsenton 6SL7 valves for Tung-Sols. To my ears, the TS valves deliver a smoother sound but still with plenty of detail. Most of my listening is in ultra-linear mode. YMMV. Suffice to say, the R8 has impressed so much it has brought about some key decisions for both the main and the second system. Specifically, the R8 is going into the main system (with the Node 2i), usurping the now outgoing NAD C 658 / PS Audio Stellar S300 combo which will both be sold. The second system? The plan is now to wirelessly connect the Node 2i from the main system to a pair of Dynaudio Xeo 10 active speakers. Other amps may well present audio that is more refined but, for me at least, listening to music with the R8 comes with a smile factor that is hard to ignore. The R8 was intended to be a bit of an experiment but has turned both my systems on their respective heads. So far, no regrets about the R8. As previously indicated, an external DAC may be added but that's for the future. PS: The installation of the upgraded PSU & interface for the Node was completed without major dramas. I'm not sure there is any significant change to the audio presentation but the intrinsic quality of the new interface & PSU doesn't seem to be in doubt.
You mean for a phono stage for a TT? At the moment, I only have a cheap "get-you-up-and-running" stage which isn't what most would look for, even at entry level. Once the now disused equipment has been moved on, I'll be looking at options for a (proper) phono stage. For now, the TT is silent in any case whilst I figure out the logistics of the physical layout for the changes in my set up - space is limited and the R8 needs lots of breathing space as well as a strong shelf! Priority 1: listen to music as and when external factors allow. Priority 2: a new, sturdier rack!
R Right on. Yeah that’s what I meant .. I may go with the Schiit phono , my buddy ordered the R8 at the same time as me and that’s what he got as his phono.
I got the IFI zen phono , still waiting on amp ( doesn’t ship for another week) not gonna use the phono without the amp.
Shipped on the 15th. I’m jonesing hard now my other buddy got his and he loves it , also another friend just ordered one ha.
Thanks for the write up! Do you notice any noise from your speakers with the amp? Can the preamp be bypassed and used as only an amp?
Update... (2 months in) So far, no problems with the amp itself although one of the Willsenton branded 6SN7 tubes has already blown (6SN7s should last a fair old time). However, a heads-up about customer service at China hifi Audio. Since receiving the R8, three online messages to CHA have gone unanswered; not even an acknowledgement. Fortunately, apart from the tube which is supposedly still under warranty, the messages have only been about supplementary information relating to the R8 but it's something to bear in mind should there be a more serious issue. As stated elsewhere, I got the R8 as a bit of an experiment that is turning out way better in terms of the listening experience than was ever expected but I also made the purchase with an assumption that any warranty wouldn't be worth the paper (or website) it was written on and that any repairs would be on me if the R8 failed. I mention this just so that others are aware and can make informed decisions. Right, onto the (much more!) positive stuff. For some, hi-fi is about music; for others it's more about the equipment. For me, although the equipment is of some interest, it's much more about the music and it is in that context I am so pleased with the R8. Purchased for a second system, it is now part of my main setup with the previous pre (NAD C 658) / power (PS Audio Stellar S300) combo rendered an historical footnote. The Bluesound Node 2i (with upgraded PSU) mentioned earlier in this thread has been retained as the primary source but an external DAC (Denafrips Pontus II) has now been added. A Sony UHP-H1 disc player serves as a second source. Along with Dynaudio Special Forty speakers, these units now comprise the main system. For info, the current tube/valve configuration is EL34 power tubes using either the original Willsenton branded version or Tung-Sol EL34B (reissue version); Willsenton branded 6SN7s and Tung-Sol 6SL7s. The majority of listening continues to be in ultra-linear mode although smoother, quieter music has more depth in triode mode (IMO). With rock, pop and busier music, the overall presentation in ultra-linear mode is just a bit tighter with more definition, particularly with lower frequencies (again, IMO). I still haven't done much listening via the R8's headphone output and, indeed, my headphone listening is likely to be via a separate amp (for reasons that would aunnecessarily add clutter to this already fairly long post!). With the aforementioned tube/valve configuration, the audio character is smooth but sufficiently detailed to enjoy the "ting" that rings clear but without being harsh. The cymbal crash that mushrooms without making you wince, with natural decay. Lovely mids (with great layering since the addition of an external DAC), clear guitars whether acoustic, grungy or lead. Piano strikes that again have natural decay. Strings that sound like strings. Liquid bottom end that is just tight enough to retain it's shape but loose enough to burble nicely (some will love that, others will not). The way I described it to a friend was this: it's like the difference between processed cheese (the NAD / PS Audio) and real cheese (the R8 / Node 2i). Both are perfectly serviceable as food (music) but real cheese is so much more satisfying. To those with a dairy intolerance, my apologies... Perhaps in some circles within the world of hi-fi, a critical listener could find all the things that make the R8 so appealing to me make it more of a "fun" amp than one for consideration in a "serious / audiophile" system. But, honestly, what does it matter? If music rather than the equipment is the main focus, surely having a system that makes listening to music an activity to positively look forward to is what matters most. For personal reasons, listening to music is more limited than I'd like but, when up to it, I can't recall ever enjoying listening to music more. To some, the R8 probably doesn't sound particularly refined (whatever that may mean) but it's just a thoroughly enjoyable listen. What about "confirmation bias"? The R8 wasn't purchased for the main system; it replaced the NAD / PS Audio combo simply because I preferred the audio character from the R8 / Node 2i setup. Financially, it didn't make sense and a certain amount of suspended disbelief at where the journey had taken me caused more than a degree of second guessing in my own thinking. But, repeated A/Bs took me back to the R8 / Node 2i. Every time. Once I'd got over an initially confused "surely not, this can't be!! " reaction, not once did I hear the NAD / PS Audio combo and think moving to the R8 would be the wrong call. Once the NAD had actually left the building, there was no pang of regret, other than wistful reflection on spending (wasting) so much money for products that ultimately turned out to be nothing more than transient (relative) disappointments. As I was writing, the following post was made: A perfect segue... My newly acquired DAC was recently delivered in person by the stockist and we had a listen to the system with the outgoing NAD C 658 and then with the Node 2i + new DAC. Both of us preferred the latter but, entirely unprompted, the stockist remarked how quiet the R8 was in both setups. I agree with him. The only time I've heard any "noise" was when a tube started to go and there was the inevitable crackle and gasping sound. At first, it was near heart stopping because I thought the amp itself had developed a fault but a process of elimination confirmed it was a failed tube. I'm not sure enough of the circuitry to be certain the pre section is bypassed when using the R8's pre-in. However, when using the NAD C 658 via the pre-in, the R8's volume control was bypassed and volume could only be controlled from the NAD. Hope this helps.
So far I’ve only read stellar reviews for this amp. This is the most critical I could find Willsenton R8 (integrated TR/UL amplifier) I wonder how it compares to Quicksilver or Decware offerings.
I've not noticed any transformer noise, not that I've proactively listened for it . The R8's current physical location is approximately 2m from my usual listening position and, so far, nothing has caused me to look up and think "what's that?". By contrast, I have a Humax TV recorder that has a low but audible vibration which can sometimes be heard above the TV audio or music playing from the main system (a quick tap settles it) - that's nearly 3m away. I don't know the Quicksilver or Decware units; the R8 purchase really was a punt with no other valve amps on the radar at the time! As for Comzee's review, it's clearly an honestly stated review - credit for that. The majority of his sans-headphones observations aren't too far away from my own but one aspect is perhaps particularly "system dependent". Comzee found that the holographic aspect of the R8's soundstage isn't the best, although still "decent". In my system, especially since the addition of the Pontus II, there is plenty of width and depth with the placement of instruments (i.e. image) being noticeably more precise than with my previous NAD / PS Audio combo. Comzee may be right when comparing it to other units but, in its own right, I think there is nothing "wrong" with the R8's imaging. Also, that may be consistent with some seeing the R8 as tending towards being more "fun" than "refined". Specifically in respect of the holographic aspect, I suspect the Pontus II is a key distinction but of course I haven't heard Comzee's setup, nor he mine. All of that said, if that's the most critical (as in negative?) you've been able to find... making a decision might be that little bit easier! Whatever you end up with, I hope it works out.
Thanks! I may just go nuts and order one! It definitely has piqued my interest. I’m Going to think about it over the weekend. My Eico sounds great when music is playing, but there is a slight transformer buzz. My concerns with this amp is reliability and ability to fix it since the schematics don’t seem to be available. Also, resale value is likely not going to hold. Though I appreciate specs, values and measurements, in the end I want something fun to listen to as moderate volumes, doesn’t produce ok much noise at idle when no music is playing, and is reliable. It seems like a fun unit to check out!
Great, informative posts from the OP. If I'm not mistaken, Willsenton products are made in the same facility as Line Magnetic and Muzishare. This is an extremely good point. ChiFi offers some remarkably low prices compared to western brands, but it comes with a cost. One should not purchase hifi from a Chinese vendors with the expectation of warranty or any other support. When I purchased my Muzishare X7 from a seller on AliExpress in January, I gave that some careful consideration, but decided to roll the dice because the price and features were so enticing. I considered the reputation of Line Magnetic (which are made side by side with Muzishare, as evidenced by factory photos), and the fact that the X7 is P2P-wired leads me to believe that getting one serviced locally shouldn't be as challenging as with an amp that has delicate circuit boards.
@Manimal .... Turntable phono stages etc... Since your posts earlier in the thread, I've started looking at some options and Schiit have some products that may or may not be of interest to you (note that some Schiit products are in short supply due to Covid related logistical issues): Schiit Mani: Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California Pure phono pre [MM / MC] with no headphone output Schiit Lyr 3: Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California Hybrid single changeable tube pre-amp / headphone amp as is or choice of additional DAC modules or phono module instead of the DAC. Schiit Jotunheim 2: Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California Pre-amp / headphone amp as is or choice of additional DAC modules or phono module instead of the DAC. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @onlysleeping : The link for the review that piqued my interest is: HiFi: The Willsenton R8 Integrated Tube Amplifier is a NO BRAINER BUY. | Steve Huff Photo It borders on the over-enthusiastic side but, when read in conjunction with other reviews, it does offer some useful insight; at least IMO. The reviewer's related R8 YouTube video includes biasing "how-to" info. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @action pact : In fairness, the Pontus II (DAC) is a Chinese product but the Singapore based distributor's customer service has been excellent - including the provision of a very helpful response to a post-sales enquiry about a cabling conundrum. That said, I'd be very wary of purchasing another main unit from, specifically, CHA as it just felt/feels a bit like being an on-the-edge-of-the-seat experience. Having been mildly critical of CHA, it's only fair to acknowledge that customer service in the UK can also be less than stellar with several vendors repeatedly failing to respond to enquiries and seeming not to care a great deal when chased. It's very very puzzling, especially in such difficult times. Fingers crossed that the R8 (and your X7) stay reliable! In the event of an issue arising with the R8, my hope is much the same as yours; i.e. local service options finding the amp to be well within their range of skills. I hope neither of us has to find out for many years...
That's a great way to describe it! The vendor that I bought my X7 from input a fake tracking number (because AliExpress requires shipping within 24 hours) and "corrected it" about a week later, when it actually went out. Good point. An email with technical questions that I sent to Pro-Ject's USA distributor went unanswered, and I've heard that others have had the same experience.
This is pretty old tech, so any local amp repair shop can easily and competently deal with most issues. The bigger concerns would be situations where one of the xformers dies. This is where the lineage of Line Magnetic I think gives some peace of mind. My new-to-me LM0-218ia (a verified USA model) is 10 years old, looks and sounds brand new, and gives me more peace of mind than if I'd unboxed a new model from China. After owning this Line Magnetic for a week, I would happily buy anything manufactured at that factory. @action pact -- I am in Boston, one of these days I would love to hear your X7! -Chris
Exactly my thoughts! The Line Magnetic association gave me enough reassurance to take a chance on the Muzishare. I would be delighted to have you over for a listening session, Chris, perhaps in a few weeks after the missus is fully vaxxed. (She's out getting her second shot right now!) I'd be very interested in your relative impressions vs. your LM.
Thanks, I went with the Ifi zen phono and may get the Loki from Schiit I did watch that review you mentioned along with every review I could find, seemed like a safe bet . I do have a young man near me that repairs tube amps so I’m not too worried about repairs. Don’t know about their response time for warranty issues but they got back to me pretty quick on “ how much longer “ emails. Said they had to move into a larger facility along with a new customer service lady. They have their hands full I would imagine.
I tried an Aric Audio Transcend at $2,600 and a 2 year-old used Prima Luna Prologue Premium for $1,900 and both have had extremely weak bass production with my Tekton Perfect SET. So I'm throwing in the towel and ordering an R8. So many say it has too much bass. I hope it does, I'm banking on that for my system.
Mine landed on the porch today I’m out of town working though... argh! I’ll get it set up this weekend
I know right? It was originally projected to land next Tuesday. It landed in Cincinnati day before yesterday and was out on hold then hit Atlanta yesterday and BAM a text saying “ today by end of day”. Told the wife she couldn’t leave until it landed which happened around 3 today in Birmingham . Gonna be a long two days
