Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

Have you given the version of DM available on the Metallica website or on iTunes a listen? While it’s still louder/more compressed than those GH versions, it’s basically the original mix without nearly as much compression.

 

I’d heard about that actually. If I saw the DR numbers I may be interested. Hate having to pay twice for an album though.

 

Seems as though I can't readily find my WB Master Of Reality CD. (I am very unorganized, unfortunately)

The ultimate MOR version is the SHM-SACD. Very pricey, though.

And, again, I can't find my 2009 Sanctuary CD to compare.

However, I can say that one of my favorite versions of MOR is the Creative Sounds CD. It's nice and "gauzey" (just like the first time I heard this masterpiece) ; not compressed at all, very crankable.

The juxtaposition of the last two tracks on each album in this series may be a bone of contention for many fans.

It's pretty cheap in price via the "Million Of Records" website. In fact most of the {Creative Sounds} Ozzy-era albums are cheap on that website. - Don't pay inflated prices via eBay, etc.

(although the Creative Sounds CDs were (supposedly) put forth by Patrick Meehan - one of a few people who ripped-off Sabbath in a big way). - It's up to you if want to pursue the CS versions, putting aside "moral grounds".

 

The 2009 CD of VOL4 is so much bass heavy that leads to the result that many details stay hidden. Original 1st press vinyl of VOL4 is not so much bass heavy. Normally I like a lot of bass but in 2009 remaster it is too much. I don’t have SACD player but I have hi-rez flac files from VOL4 SACD. I think SACD version is simply the best version what I’ve heard.

Overall the SACD version is the best, but I can write that I’m also quite satisfied with the latest 2021 remaster. The latest 2021 remaster is probably the most details revealing version. I think that everyone who likes VOL4 album should have also 2021 remaster in personal collection. This remaster offers different listening experience (not bad - just different).

 

I do wonder how these chaps who mix these things don’t have constant headaches

That may be slightly hyperbolic, but with those kind of mixes it does give you that feeling of constantly wanting to turn it down rather than up.

I totally get that these are basically now mixed so they sound “ok” coming from an iPhone speaker etc…

But it is a real shame that these types of mixes are used now.

The complete opposite happens on movie soundtracks, when I watch a blu ray of a marvel film, for example, the sound is phenomenal, very dynamic

Even a lot of games I play have settings for sound.. like wide range, normal or night time compression settings

Where it matters the most, actual albums from bands we love, we get everything squashed


Apologise for the ramble here, but I’m sure there might be a few that feel the same as me

 

My number 1 for SABOTAGE is 2009 remaster. Yes - I agree that it is darker with a lot of bass. But it is not disturbing, I like that sound.

I don't like for example 2009 remaster of VOL4. It has also a lot of bass but in VOL4 it is too much. Too much details stay hidden.

 

everything you are referring to is down to mastering, not mixing. this recent run of Sabbath reissues have absolutely terrible mastering to the point of being virtually unlistenable.

 

Did read what I was replying to?

I understand what mastering does.

Context is important

 

the reason these songs sound bad has virtually nothing to do with mixing - they're not mixing songs to sound good on on iPhones speakers; you're referring to mastering.

 

I completely agree about the mastering

My point about mixing was purely to do with the mixing of Black Sabbath 13, the quote I was replying to

that they compressed each channel in the mix

I’m sorry if I wasn’t that clear, I didn’t mean to confuse anyone

it states in what I was quoting that the mixes don’t even move the meters, it stays the same… or something like that

I’m not trying to be difficult here, but it was just a purely a reply to what I quoted

I thought that was clear, but if it wasn’t, I’m sorry

 

except they’re not compressing anything in a mix

 

Are you literally trying to tear apart my post? Or correct everything I say? Because I used a synonym

I’ve said I’m sorry if I’m not clear

I made a reply to a quote…. Maybe just put me on your ignore list, I think you might be happier

 

Have you read the article about 13 that Claus posted above? Because what, according to you, is never done is literally what it says they did with 13. And it is not some random person who's interviewed there, it is the engineer who did it.

 

I understand your POV. In the case of 13, however, there seems to be something bothering me about not only the mastering, but the mix as well.

Rick Rubin is known for a dry (immediate) type of production - and in conglomeration with a 'loud' mix, it can be just too damn much. (That's why I can't give a to the result.)

Witness the link in post #1698 that @Claus provided. (Inside Track: Black Sabbath 13). - Hell, the mixing engineer (Andrew Scheps) seems proud to exclaim that he likes to see segments of songs go into solid walls of sound. Truth be told, I couldn't stomach completely reading about Scheps' POV (and I realize this superfluous, but Scheps looks a LOT like Rubin : talk about a double whammy!). Hell, it's no wonder putting forth the lack of preserving dynamics of music is so prevalent. The earbud generation is KING!, and will be for the forseeable future.

Maybe I am just a old fogey who likes a bit of dimension to music. 13 hasn't got many plays on my stereo. It is too friggin' dry in the production aspect - (and uninspired (overall) to a big degree) in reference to the "parameters" that Rubin put forth ["focus on your first album"]. Sabbath should have been encouraged to do what they felt was right ; Let "emotion" and "feel" be the guide. Perhaps Sabbath felt that they were under the gun concerning Tony's cancer situation, as well. I dunno ....

IMHO - 13 is gonna be their last album and it isn't a bad album) ....but it could have been so much better (production-wise, at least).

 

Your post was crystal clear IMO. The only confusion that could arise from it would be because many people (including me until I read the article you were referring to) don't know that compression is sometimes applied to each track or some tracks during the mixing stage, rather than only to the finished mix as a whole.

 

13 is without a doubt the loudest album I own and consequently gets very little play although I do like it , its HARD to listen to and now its crystal clear as to why and that SUCKS

 

On my system and to these ears, the Vol. 4 2009 Sanctuary sounds dark, but it does so in a very good way. On my headphones, I currently prefer the 2009, although I love the SACD as well - and it depends a lot on which track I am listening to because they are so differently produced. On my speakers, I have to do another shootout some time.

I very much disagree about the 2021 remaster. It has what is possibly the weirdest EQ I have ever heard. I don't think it is "revealing" anything worth revealing. Instead, it brings to the forefront details that were never supposed to be in the forefront, while pushing things to the background that should be prominent.

 

Yeah, and that's not just a subjective thing; as the article Claus posted reveals, the engineer did in fact heavily compress certain tracks during the mixing process, and not just the resulting mix as a whole.

 

Tony Iommi was involved into this remastering process (2021 remaster). He certainly has something to say how the VOL4 should sounds like. The bolded text is just your opinion. It seems that Tony disagree with you

 

Myself, I never noticed any unwanted distortion as a result of mastering on 13. The CD versions are mastered too loud and can cause ear fatigue. Even so to me it's a really powerful sound. I have the CD's and LP's and prefer the LP's.....The limitations of the LP format can protect from certain frequencies, overdone bass and too in your face mastering.

Some CD's that spring to mind where the mastering is distorted are....
Masters of Reality- Welcome to the Western Lodge
Santana-Africa Speaks
The DR numbers on those 2 are probably better, but I'd almost rather hear Death Magnetic..
DM still loses out, because of the music itself. The other 2 have good music IMO.

 

Compression is absolutely used at the mixing stage of virtually any music recording.

13 sounds like it does because of compression at the mixing and mastering stages.

 

Was he really?

 

Yes... and Geezer probably too

 

According to the info @Claus received, yes, he and Geezer were.

Of course it is my opinion, and of course Tony would very likely disagree. As far as we know, Tony approved the mix and mastering of 13 and TDYK. What that tells us is that he seems to be the pretty much the opposite of an audiophile. Also, chances are his hearing is severely damaged at this point.

I love Tony's music. But I disagree with many decisions he's made in his life. And IMO mixing and/or mastering decisions are among the more harmless of those.

 

If that's the case, I disagree with Tony Iommi too. He's entitled to his opinion and, for good or bad, may have a say into how he wants his music to sound. But just because Master Iommi says so, that doesn't mean I have to love it. 2021 Vol. 4 sounds like ass to me and I won't play it.