Stephen King's "The Stand" remake on CBS All Access

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Spaghettiows, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. '05Train

    '05Train Crashin' & Flyin' & Livin' & Dyin'

    Location:
    Roanoke, Virginia
    I completely disagree, it's terrible. Terrible might not be a strong enough word.

    There are indeed some good performance. The ending is a slight improvement from the 1994 ending. Didn't care for King's coda.

    If someone were to re-edit it so that the storytelling was linear, that would help tremendously. Even still, so much of the necessary character work wasn't done, and there are so many nonsensical changes made (no tunnel?) that what was filmed isn't salvageable.

    I haven't read the book in at least 10 years, and it might even be closer to 15. I'm sure I've forgotten details of the story. I was pissed watching the first episode because it was evident that the people in charge of the show had no love for the story.
     
  2. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    Having finally finished the audiobook of the uncut & expanded novel, first time through this expanded version having read the original book 2 or 3 times in the 80s, I’m freshly primed for all things The Stand related.

    I’m doing the Marvel comics adaptation (excellent) and the BluRay of the 1994 mini-series (love it for what it got right and happy to overlook its flaws).

    Having some iTunes Store credit, I picked up the recent CBS series on Apple TV and watched the first episode last night. Planning on watching the entire series before going back through the entire thread, so apologies if I go over any points that have been raised already.

    On the basis of what I’d read here, I was expecting car crash television, and adaption so woefully misguided one might wonder what it was in the original novel that the producers, writers and directors understood. On the basis of the first episode, it was better than I expected. Much better. I’ll try not to compare it to the 1994 mini-series except where necessary. I want to see how it stands on its own, pun intended, as well as an adaption of the novel.

    Ok, episode 1.

    Loved:
    • Great depiction of Captain Trips itself, abundantly clear why it is also known as Tube Throat.
    • The depiction of the grim work of the Boulder cleanup crew.
    • Harold’s practiced The Smile he flashes at everyone he meets in Boulder, dropped when no one is looking.
    • Fran hearing Harold’s furious typing across the otherwise dead town of Ogunquit.
    Liked:

    • The casting in main was great. Yes, Harold is supposed to be fatter and arguably even more self absorbed than he is depicted here. Going off of the first episode, the cast are blameless for the issues the show does have,
    • The tone of the show is well done; the onset of Captain Trips is suitably graphic, the dream sequences a little uneasy.
    • Moving Stu between the Atlanta & Stovington sites was good, and didn’t mind the changes made to the doctors etc that attend Stu.
    • That someone, and we know who, intervenes to hold the door open to allow Campion’s escape from Project Blue. The impressions I picked up from the book is that Flagg has been waiting around, biding his time, for a situation he can take advantage of. This scene suggests he intervenes directly to precipitate a situation he can take advantage of. I’m fine with that.
    Disliked:
    • In the novel, Stu is regarded as no more than a lab rat to the Atlanta & Stovington CDC staff. He has to fight his way out of Stovington, life or death, them or me stuff, his equivalent of Larry’s tunnel to face and overcome if he is to live. here, the General takes time to say everything he says to his subordinate in the novel to Stu instead. Why? No idea. Then charitably lets him go. No recurring scenes of the General realising the impotence of his actions. Not sure keeping the General in without his scenes with his subordinate make sense, nor does his explanation to and freeing of Stu. Does both characters a disservice. And the General is supposed to be at Project Blue, not Stovington.
    • Starting the story half way through, and relying on flashbacks, and then flashbacks within flashbacks. The only people I know who enjoyed and understood David Lynch’s Dune were those who’d ready the books and understood the unfilmed chapters and scenes between those filmed and seen on screen. The episode as shown with must have been nigh on incomprehensible who wasn’t already familiar with the novel’s linear structure. It occasionally felt like Stu, Fran & Harold’s earlier scenes had been filmed, cut up, tossed into a tombola drum, spun and then sequenced in the order they were withdrawn. So we see the Campion family arrive in Annette before they leave Project Blue etc. Other than the episode gathering scenes/chapters with related characters, the structure is infuriating.
    Hated:
    • What in the world have they done to Fran?! Specifically the attempted suicide. To me at least, her whole character is one of someone who is frightened at the circumstances she is thrust into, but strong, and self resilient. She’s pregnant, she wants to keep the baby to whom she feels protective off from the start, she doesn’t need or want to marry the father. She is her own person. She doesn’t require saving by anyone, least of all by Harold and his need to feel recognised as her saviour. So why on earth does she try and end her life?! Plot wise, it’s so Harold can actually save her. Motivation wise she is no longer the Frannie from the book, she’s now a damsel in distress who would be dead by her own hand had Harold not raced to the rescue and saved her. Ugh.
    All in all, I’m looking forward on the next episode, even with the reservations above. It is the least of the adaptions, after the marvel comic, then the 1994 series, then this. But so far at least, no irredeemably awful and several aspects that I really quite enjoy.
     
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  3. Mr Matchbox

    Mr Matchbox Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE England, UK
    This is the bane of so many new TV series and films now. For me it's effective very rarely but it's almost become the norm. Is this timeline scrambling something everyone's taught to do in film school now? If I see a film start that's apparently 10 minutes from the end of the story and then it fades to 3 months/weeks/days earlier I tend to switch off. I know who is going to survive come the end and what physical or emotional state they'll be in so most of the dramatic tension is gone.

    I know what happens in "The Stand" because I've read the book (long version) and seen the previous mini series but it is written as very much a long shaggy dog story where the plot slowly evolves and characters take time to learn the nature of things. Starting mid-way through the story is just fundamentally wrong.
     
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  4. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Yup, exactly. While "in medias res" is nothing new, it seems to be the norm now, rather than the exception, and, in most cases these days, seldom works.

    Harold is evil from the jump, so there is nothing at all meaningful about his character arc, or any of the other characters for that matter. Sure, when he's busted up at the bottom of a hill he has a "moment of clarity", but by then, who really cares - good riddance.

    The mini-series is a POS and a HUGE wasted opportunity. I struggle to come up with anything I liked about it.
     
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  5. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    The things you hated/disliked were enough for me to find the whole series idiotic and without any redeeming qualities. The showrunners botched the execution so badly, that it never really had a chance to be worthwhile.

    It doesn't get any better either. One of the worse parts about it is that it's just plain dull...
     
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  6. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    Location:
    ontario canada
    You're going to hate Lloyd.
     
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  7. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    Episode 2 done. It sometimes feels as though the parts of the series that work the best are those that hew closest to the novel itself, mainly due to the novel’s structure, style and plot mechanics working int he first place. That said, the bits that bother me least about the second episode are the gender swaps etc for some of the characters, namely Larry & Ralph/Rae (?) Brentner etc.

    Loved:
    • Not an awful lot to love about the episode.
    Liked:
    • Folding Larry’s backstory from the novel (drugs & partying in Los Angeles, “You ain’t no nice guy!) into New York was well done, as was his relationship with his disapproving mother.
    • Heather Graham made for a pretty good Ruth. Larry’s scenes in the park with the Yankee stadium guy and meeting Ruth herself worked well.
    • Wasn’t sure about TV Larry having to get his mother out of hospital when book Larry was trying in vain to ger her in worked for me, but did afford for a scene showing hospitals being over run.
    • Lloyd was a different take on the character than I imaged, but it mostly worked. His scenes in the prison worked fine, and a great shot with Lloyd silhouetted against the ticker tape of falling, burning toilet roll paper was quite striking.
    Disliked:
    • Lloyd’s introduction, mostly around his relationship with Poke. In the book, Lloyd is amoral and happily follows Poke’s lead with their crime spree. In the book, after being caught, his appointed lawyer suggests a narrative to Lloyd that he was a terrified, unwilling accomplice, acting out of fear of Poke - a narrative that Lloyd is slow to grasp the purpose of, instead talking up his own role. In the TV show, Lloyd is pretty much the guy that book lawyer suggests Lloyd could have been for defence purposes.
    • Nadine. Not Amber Heard’s fault, but the fault of the silly time structure imposed on the show. She has no introduction, has no obvious character, is not shown to have refused Larry’s advances on the road to Hemmingford Home/Boulder, appears to be nothing other than the possible carer for Joe. We know next to nothing about her from the TV shows. So why should we be in anyway interested or concerned that she appears to have one of Flagg’s stones? Likewise, why sh9uld we care about her taking down the writing toy. Without any knowledge of Nadine’s character, relationship with Larry etc, she is nothing but a blank slate in the TV show so far.
    • Again, the non-chronological ordering of the TV shows has Larry making a point of visiting and thanking Harold on arriving in Boulder for his help and guidance. As a book reader, I know why this is (graffiti writing in Ogunquit giving Harold;s intended route from Ogunquit to Stovington, then again at Stovington etc). In the TV show…eh?
    Hated:
    • Dropping the Lincoln Tunnel in favour of a maze of sewers. Larry’s hellish, arduous trek though the tunnel filed with corpses, military checkpoint etc It was disappointing to see this key, memorable scene dropped in favour of something that just didn’t work for me. Larry gets to ‘see’ one corpse, and finds his was under the river through a maze of sewers that never appears to go deep enough. Even worse was Rita - she and Larry are facing certain violence at best when they go into the sewers. Rita leaves and then manages to arrive at the exact point where Larry emerges from randomly fleeing down. Hell of a co-incident, to say nothing of the threat to Rita having seemingly vanished into this air. In the book 1 tunnel; one entrance, one exit. Rita refusing to go in, then following Larry in later out of fear (of attack and of abandonment) works SO much better,

    I blame the success of Lost. Lost was specifically structured to introduce characters as strangers to one another on the island and to the audience. The flashbacks then fleshed out the characters and often commented on or informed whatever was going on in the island in that episode. Worked fine. Trying to do the same with something constructed as a linear story doesn’t work and isn’t working for The Stand.

    I hear you. The flashbacks to Captain Trips onslaught are well done visually (that’s why it is also called tubethroat) but there is rarely sense of society falling apart and the would be survivors horror at the events unfolding around them. Close relatives and friends die and the would be survivors simply move on, with little sense of grief. Nor is there much sense of each characters road trips and journeys (and the book is nothing except cross cutting between multiple, parallel road trips).

    Maybe this will change in coming episodes, but from what you say, I’m not hopeful. WIthout book knowledge to recognise and contextualise each scene, it must be nigh on incomprehensible.
     
  8. Scotian

    Scotian Amnesia Hazed

    Anything Vegas related was over the top. Lloyd, Trashy & Vegas itself. Very cartoonish.
     
  9. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    And episode 3. As an overall observation, how can such a high budgeted dramatic adaptation of such a distinctive novel wind up with so little impact?

    Loved:
    • Nothing
    Liked:
    • Larry & Joe's guitar moment. Partially as it hewed close to the novel, location aside, partially because only Larry feels like an actual character so far. There is a definite sense of Larry being a screw up to begin with (via flashback) and his learning/accepting responsibility whilst on the road out of New York to Ogunquit to Boulder.
    • The opening scene with a young Nadine and other girls with the planchette was reasonably creepy and as far as the TV show goes, makes sense of Nadine taking down a box from a closet whilst dramatic music swelled.
    Disliked:
    • The show seems determined to short change main characters. Last week we had Stu being treated well in Atlanta/Stovington, given a full explanation of what was going on and aside with a brief scuffle with a disgruntled member of staff, was permitted to leave Stovington and to go on his way. Zero anything to overcome. This week Nick gets mostly the same treatment. I can understand dropping his stay with the sheriff and his wife, but aside from him briefly mopping his assailant's brow, there is nothing shown of Nick's decency and compassion. No feeding and caring for the prisoners from the book, despite their continued taunting and singular lack of gratitude. No compassionate freeing of a sick but walking prisoner. I can understand the need to condense certain sub-stories, but new TV show Nick suffers as Stu's character suffered the week before.
    • Rita gets introduced at length last week and is casually referred to by Larry as 'I was with someone, she took her own life' this week. I'm assuming we might get to see this moment, but not before viewers are already tipped off as to Rita's fate. As ever, the non-chronological storytelling of the show causes more and more issues from a dramatic point of view.
    • Aside from the odd on screen referral to location and date. there is nothing to suggest that the next scene after the current one is either the next scene chronologically or a flashback to an earlier part of the story .
    • Flagg attempts to seduce Nick to be his right hand man in a dream. Ok, I can live with that (although is this before or after Flagg recruits Lloyd to the same position). Flagg appears in all of the Boulder bound characters dreams. So why was the crucified guy allowed to leave Las Vegas in order to travel to Boulder to deliver a message? Ignoring the fact he was crucified and could well have died from his wounds before arriving, Flagg can appear/speak/torment people in their dreams! And the book characters are aware of the Vegas crucifixions from their dreams. Not sure they or we needed an actual crucified person to turn up in person.
    • Nadine is still a non-character and is defined solely as a semi-flustered guardian who is uncertain of her charge. She and Larry have no obvious relationship, any attraction in any way. From what we've seen in the show, Flagg talking to her in the same manner and terms as Lloyd, she shouldn't have gone to Boulder, she should be bound for Vegas.
    • Tom Cullen appearing in the hospital where Nick awoke and mopped his assailants brow. No need for Nick to travel, or even leave the scene/location where he awoke before discharging as much as his story as possible. Tom himself is a different take on the character - will see how he goes in future episodes.
    • Stu recognises Glen's painting of Fran. We have no scene of Stu leaving Fran & Harold after they meet, and F&H are seemingly not at Glen's with Stu. I genuinely though the whole scene with Stu & Glen was happening before Stu meets Fran & Harold as per the book, until he recognised the painting. This non-linear storytelling is not working.
    Hated:
    • The fragmented, non-linear storytelling. Overall it is causing many more issues than it solves, it undermines drama (Rita above, Stu/Goen/Fran & Harold scenes above, robbing the character's Boulder/Vegas bound journeys of any serious stakes as we know they survive) and unless one already knows the linear story from the book/comic/1990s TV series, must leave those new to the story utterly confused. It just isn't working. I'm trying to ignore it but its a struggle.
     
  10. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    Location:
    ontario canada
    As a forum co- member , I feel it is my duty to advise you to stop watching ' The Stand '.
    It does not get better, only worse and more annoying.
     
  11. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I disagree...once the story goes linear I thought it got much, much better.
     
  12. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    I’m cling to the fact that having reread the book recently, it still has the epic power over my imagination as when I first read it in the 80s. Both books are still on my shelf (early 80s UK paperback, 90s uncut paperback) and the new TV series in no way displaces or replaces them. Additionally I still have a great fondness (and the BluRay) of the 90s mini-series, together with the Marvel comics adaptation, so I have 2 ‘good enough’ adaptations to satisfy myself with.

    The new series I’ve paid cash for (£11.99) on iTunes, so I’m going to carry on watching it even if I wind up hate watching it. I’m trying to pick out the good (make up and greater permissible imagery on TV now allows for a much more graphic Captain Trips). And I’m mostly curious as to what King himself does with the last episode.
     
  13. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    Ok, episode 4. Overall something of an improvement, although with one or two changes relative to the book that had me scratching my head. As ever, the non-linear storytelling remains problematic.

    Loved:
    • Stevie King sat at the table in the poster for the Hemmingford Home rest home!
    Liked:
    • Fran & Harold’s run in with the trucker/rapist & Dayna’s introduction. Well adapted, and having Stu & Glen arriving to intervene worked well for the TV show.
    • The Boulder Free Zone town meeting also worked well. Slight change from the book for the screen in having Stu falter, Larry intervene to get the crowd onside and handing back to Stu was fine, otherwise adapting the book straight would have had Stu monologuing for 20 mins. Also liked Harold flashing The Smile and proposing the temporary council become the permanent council.
    • Julie comes across exactly as per the novel, wonderfully unhinged. Also like this show’s depiction of Tom.
    • Nadine’s seduction of Harold. Weaponising Harold’s desperate need to pop his proverbial cherry.was played convincingly by both Amber Heard & Owen Teague
    Disliked:
    • Unless I\ve misunderstood, and please correct me if I have, why has Hemmingford Home become a rest home rather than the Fremantle homestead. Not that the change is necessarily bad, but why the cornfields in the characters dreams?
    • The timescales seem off - the road trips according to the on screen captions take several months, yet characters (Dayna, Tom) arrive in Boulder and are immediately dispatched to Vegas as spies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  14. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    I knew it couldn’t last.

    Loved:
    • Nothing.
    Liked:
    • Stu & Frannie’s dinner with Harold. And I understand why Fran & Larry’s seperate visits to Harold’s house were condensed the way they have been. One slight disappointment of using the well worn trope of a misplaced chess piece to tip off an intruder has been.
    Disliked:
    • Mother Abigail reacting against the sending of spies. Why?
    • Nadine’s attempted seduction of Larry. The scene in itself was fine, well played by both Heard & Jovian Adepo. Problem is we;ve seen nothing at all of Larry & Nadine’s road trip. Their attraction, Nadine rebuffing Larry’s advances multiple times and Larry ultimately taking solace in the less exciting but more predictable Lucy. In the TV show? Nadine appears to turn up one night at Larry’s door (could easily have been anyone else) to throw herself at him. Why? Who knows. Does it have something to do with ‘Nadine will be my queen’? Maybe. Another failure of the non-linear storytelling.
    Hated:
    • Las Vegas. Whoever described it as cartoony was absolutely right. The only thing I liked about Vegas is the sets and swooping cinematography (pull back from the damn, the camera gliding around the interior of the casino). The interior of the casino looks most impressive.
    • Dayna’s meeting and suicide with Flagg worked well, albeit slimmed down a little from the book.
    • The rest of Vegas was awful. Just awful:
    • Where to even start? The bachanalia. Wrong on so many levels. Firstly it all looked like a ham-fisted attempt to copy the mansion house orgy scene from Eyes Wide Shut (one of my favourite films, come at me!). With the distinct lack of nudity/sex throughout the rest of the series, most notably Nadine’s seduction of Harold (a scene which is all about Harold’s wildest sexual fantasies coming to pass) it felt gratuitous. Either keep everything implied and suggested as the rest of the series has (fine, this story is not about sex nor is it Game of Thrones) or keep all instances of it consistent.
    • Throughout the book, the the Boulder bound characters have the impresson than Vegas has attracted the criminals, the rapists, the sociopaths etc. Indeed Lloyd, Trash & Julie wind up there. When we finally see anything of Vegas through Trash and Dayna’s eyes, it is not the never ending bachanalia the ‘good’ characters think it is. The place is disciplined and well run, the power is on, the work crews are timetabled & efficient and, most importantly, drugs and excessive drinking are expressly forbidden by Flagg, Reasoning that if his people are allowed to indulge their worst aspects, his people will rapidly succumb to them. Henry Drogan is witnessed being crucified for his drug use, the public nature of his death serving as a warning to the assembled masses. Lloyd’s own drinking is kept in check and in secret. In the TV show though? It looks to be a 24 hour Eyes Wide Shut orgy with widespread drug taking, excessive drinking and gladiator pits. Dramatically this completely undermines the tight, disciplined threat Vegas is supposed to be building towards.
    • What does Lloyd actually do as Flagg’s right hand man in this show? I know what he is supposed to do, but we;ve yet to see him do anything other than sashay around and party.
    And I’ve still to meet Trashcan Man. I do not have high hopes.
     
  15. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    Location:
    ontario canada
    Lloyd is an idiot in this. What a difference between this fool and the one in the original.
    As for Trashcan Man...let me gaze into your future. You are going to absolutely hate him.
     
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  16. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    Ugh. Episode 6. Just ugh.

    Loved:
    • Nothing.
    Liked:
    • Maybe the explosion. I'm struggling here.
    • In a better adaption, Alexander Skarsgard could be the better
    Disliked:
    • Mother Abigail disappearing at the start of the episode and then being found at the end. With next to nothing happening in Boulder whilst she was gone. No plans made. No sense of governance continuing without her.
    • Fran discovering Harold's plans, Harold's facade dropping and telling Fran everything. Fran racing to tell Stu, Larry etc of his plan. I understand why books, especially as rambling and sprawling as The Stand, need to be changed for the screen. Condensing Frannie's visit to Harold's house, the cellar window etc itself is fine in principle. It just didn't work for me.
    Hated:
    • Vegas. A week after being introduced, there is only the scale of the sets that pleases in any way. The bacchanalia continues (those bondage gear clad fornicators must be absolutely red raw by now). No sense of how the vegas community is being made to work. No work crews, no work out in the desert (barring last week's damn pull back shot). Far from being seen as a potential threat to Boulder, the Vegas community seem destined to die off by gladiatorial combat, drink, drugs or badmouthing Flagg himself.
    Hated with a pure, burning passion:
    • Book Lloyd enforces Flagg's rules, sometimes gleefully, sometimes reluctantly with the crucifixions. New show Lloyd does neither of these things. Flagg appears to have recruited him has chief party goer and sashayer. New show Lloyd could OD on one of his continuing binges and this show Vegas would carry on running the exact same way regardless. If new show Lloyd follows the book Lloyd's story and fate, it is going to feel hollow and redundant.
    • Trashcan Man. Trashy. Who on Earth thought this particular portrayal was a good idea? Far from departing too much from book Trashy, new show Trashy isn't a character at all. He's a writhing, capering collection of tics, not even a character - no more than a transplanted nameless, silent visual subject of a late 90s Metallica/Korn/Nu Metal music video. There is no way that this version of Trash would have got from Gary to Vegas, not without starving to death whilst Cibola-ing and bump-ti-bumping. And from what I remember, Trash seemed to have 3 scenes. Trash blows up the gas solos in Gary and leaves, Trash arrives in Vegas and Trash meets Flagg to be dispatched to find something 'big'. Nothing to establish his character, his (twisted) motivation or history. The only, and I mean only, positive I can say about this portrayal is that it serves to make this show's Lloyd seem complex and three dimensional.
    All of which leaves three episodes, including King's own finale, in which to redeem this misguided, ill conceived mess.
     
  17. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    Location:
    ontario canada
    If you are expecting redemption in the final three episodes you are in for a most bitter disappointment.
     
  18. And Randall is pretty ineffectual to me. Yes, he’s evil, etc. but he’s nowhere near as intimidating or scary as one would hope.
     
  19. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    I’m more watching out of grim fascination now, in the way one might feel compelled watch ones own wounds being stitched. You know it isn’t going to be pleasant but you wind up watching anyway.

    Aside from the elevator attack scene, we never see Flagg do or order anything unpleasant. Little sense of him ruling Vegas with an iron first, with severe punishments for anyone who steps out of line.

    Episode 7..

    Loved:
    • Some impressive and imaginative cinematography as we followed the walkers; loved the pans up to the sky/sun, then seamlessly pannng back down to pick up their trip hours or days later. If only the individual trips leading to Boulder/Vegas had been handled in a similar fashion,
    Liked:
    • Quite a bit more than previous weeks. Is this a result of the story going linear, with scene B following as a consequence of scene A, C of B, etc? Without the flashbacks and then flashbacks within flashbacks, we get to spend actual time with the characters as characters, as opposed to mechanisms for exposition & flashbacks.
    • The walkers departure from Boulder and their subsequent road trip worked really well. I enjoyed spending the time with them as they journey. If we’d have following Stu, Larry et al in this manner earlier in the story rather than only flashing back to key moments of their journeys, the characters would have been so much richer for it.
    • Harold & Nadine’s flight from Boulder and Harold’s ‘accident’. Played out on screen pretty much as I saw it in my head whilst reading the book. Scenes and moments like this work as well as they do not merely because they hew close to the book, but because the book did them so well in the first place! Cf Stu’s accident and insisting the other walkers go on to Vegas without him.
    • We finally see the crucifixions. I’m guessing the show runners wanted to save the reveal for when the walkers enter Vegas, and on that point alone I could say it worked. I immediately wondered why exactly these people were crucified though, given the activities for which crucufuction is the punishment in the book are all actively encouraged by Flagg himself in the show.
    Disliked:
    • There was precisely no mourning of Nick’s death, other than a cursory ‘Nick died’ mentioned by one of the characters. As a viewer I’d have more invested if we’d actually spent time with Nick earlier, learning of his compassion with the Shoyo prisoners etc. Instead the show rushed his introduction, his Shoyo story, meeting Tom Cullen in a bid to get him to Boulder in the least amount of screen time. And so his death barely registered.
    • Vegas continues to be stupid and over the top. The time shift of the show explains Flagg appearing on advertising video screens around Vegas. But statues as well? Over egging the pudding.
    • One single short scene with Trash getting the Big Fire. It was for the best. Make a plot point and move on.
    Hated:
    • Lloyd. Far from being Flagg’s intimidating right hand man, the man who meets the walkers comes across as a Studio 54 hanger-on. I’ve purposefully not compared this show to the 1994 mini-series, and I’m not laying the blame at the actor’s feet, but Miguel Ferrer & Matt Frewer’s Lloyd & Trash were orders of magnitude better then the silly, ineffectual and cartoonish portrayals we get here. Mostly due to them coming across as plausible, viable characters by comparison.
     
  20. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    Finally got around to dragging myself through the last couple of episodes of this. Episode 8.

    Loved:
    • Nothing at all.
    Liked:
    • The SFX for the ‘Hand of God’ and the nuclear blast were impressively done.
    Disliked:
    • Nothing.
    Hated:
    • Everything else. Everything.
    • The Trial was as cartoonishly done as possible, felt more like a high budget court trial of Batman & Robin as conducted by Cesar Romero’s Joker. More pointless, ineffectual sashaying by Lloyd.
    • Nadine visiting Larry.
    • Trash gets even more shortchanged - no assignment to any jobs to demonstrate his unreliability. Trash arrived is Vegas, gets sent on an errand, comes back, dies. The only small mercy is the short screen time afforded to this particular silly depiction of the character.
    • Given how cartoonish and unrealistic Lloyd & Trash are in this version, I’m glad they didn’t cover The Kid part of Trash’s story. I’m not sure it would be possible to have an even more cartoonish character than those that populate Vegas.
    If only the 1994 series could have had this series SFX for Captain Trips, the Hand of God and the bomb. Otherwise the earlier series completely buries this version.

    Last episode then back to the audiobook of Salem’s Lot to restore my faith.
     
  21. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    And so to the final episode. I’ve only persevered this long to see what SK himself might have in store. On the plus side, at least there are no Vegas side characters dropping anvils on each other’s heads, or vibrating after being hit in the face with a frying pan. My interest in this episode was seeing what SK himself might salvage from all of this; none of the groundwork for getting me to care about these characters has been done, so I’m not so much interested in what might happen with the characters themselves as what changes or improvements might be made relative to the book everts.

    Loved:
    • The final scene with the tribesman. Almost exactly as I pictured it from the novel.
    Liked:
    • For only the second time in an adaptation of a story that is almost exclusively made up of road trips, a linear road trip with Stu & Frannie’s journey from Boulder to Maine (the first being Larry & co’s walk from Boulder to Vegas).
    Disliked:
    • Frannie’s incident with the well. It would be unfair to compare Cormac McCarthy’s The Road with The Stand. They are two very different takes on the post-apocalyptic tale. One of the things that rang very true from the The Road is The Man’s avoidance of taking risks - there are no doctors, no hospitals, no prospect of help from passing Samaritans. Despite having a pistol, The Man has himself and The Boy go far out of their way to avoid risk, whether through injury or conflict with others. I may well be brining in a concern from that book to this series, where it may not be warranted. I still found myself asking why on earth would Fran venture out onto the well cover? Even if she/her party had a desperate need for water, would she not have found a plank or similar to place across the well cover before venturing on.
    • The well cover incident felt flown in from the ‘second order deaths’ vignettes chapter of the uncut version of the book, with the otherwise Captain Trips immune child dying of shock and exposure after falling into such a well/mine.
    • The early scenes of the episode focused on Fran’s labour and life without Stu. Ok, this could be intersting - seeing this part of the story through Fran’s eyes and not Stu & Tom’s extended road trip back to Boulder. No. Not to be. Within a few mins of Tom meeting Stu on his was back to Boulder, they’re both back in Boulder and the last chance for any character work went with it.
    Hated:
    • Nothing this time, mainly due to Lloyd/trash/Julie being dead.
    All in all the series was misconceived from the start. Surely the idea of slicing and dicing the story to start it in Boulder and tell everything before that in flashback must have shown up as problematic during editing. Did no-one stop and say ‘This doesn’t work. We need to rethink how we edit and present the footage we;ve shot’?

    We don’t spend enough time with the characters in the present/boulder, or enough time with them in the past to get to know them as living, breathing characters. The Vegas characters are silly, overblown cartoons. Instead of Lloyd we got Dick Dastardly. At no point is Vegas ever threatening - we see none of the discipline being imposed that would cause Vegas to be further ahead in restoring societal norms or their build up of arms and AirPower. Other than an all-too-brief scene at the damn, Vegas was nothing but non-stop partying and bachanalia. At some point they’d have run out of booze/drugs/lube and either departed or expired through overdoses and boredom.

    I’m going to go back and read the thread through from the beginning. I’ll be especially interested to read the thoughts and impressions of those who watched this new series who hadn’t already read the book or seen the 1994 series. With 9 hours of screen time, a TV landscape that is accepting of more graphic horror and violence and a budget that must dwarf the 1994 series even adjusted for inflation, this series doesn’t even come close to touching the 1994 series - either as a TV drama or an adaptation of the book.
     
    aroney, '05Train, Curveboy and 4 others like this.
  22. wrat

    wrat Forum Resident

    Location:
    29671
    Wife and I are avid SK fans have EVERY book and most dvd etc and we gave up after the 3rd episode it was AWFUL
     
    coffeetime likes this.
  23. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    Location:
    ontario canada
  24. P(orF)

    P(orF) Forum Resident

    Well, if it’s any consolation, your recaps were a lot more entertaining than the series.
     
  25. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    New version ?
    Just started watching the dvd. Like it.
    As is .in order of preference..

    the expanded novel
    Original TV version
    New TV version.
     
    Curveboy and coffeetime like this.

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