Why are Led Zeppelin Targets so collectible?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by dvda, Oct 27, 2006.

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  1. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Besides, even though the marketing department wrote "remastered by Jimmy Page" on the back, the actual remastering work was done by George Marino at Sterling Sound. Page sat in on some of the sessions according to interviews he gave at the time. As for trusting his ears, which set, the 1969 ones before years of standing in front of a stack of cranked Marshalls while subjecting himself to some pretty serious substance abuse, or the 1990 ones?

    Of course this whole subject has nothing to do with the Target CDs under discussion in this thread. As has been mentioned in many threads here on countless occasions, all Led Zeppelin CDs prior to the 1990-93 Marino Remasters were done by Barry Diament while at Atlantic, except for Led Zeppelin IV, which was done by Joe Sidore. That's it, that's all. The Zeppelin targets were done with these masters. If they are better, it's because the targets are physically superior (better materials, better pressing), etc.

    As with others here, I used to have a target of LZIV but I gave it away years ago when I trusted the record company hype about digital remasters being even more perfect copies of the master tapes than the "perfect copies" they sold me in the 80's. I do know that I found a Canadian standard issue of the original Sidore-mastered LZIV last year at a used store. I can't compare it very well to the target I used to have but I can say it sounds far nicer to me than the remastered tracks on the crop circles box sets or the 2003 mini-LP CD of IV I bought. I've also found Diament-mastered copies of the rest and they all sound better to the only ears I truly trust (or that really matter to me), mine. :)

    Regards,
    Steve.
     
  2. FatBottomedGirl

    FatBottomedGirl New Member

    Location:
    USS
    'Cuz I've got one and you don't.
     
  3. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    Great Sound.
     
  4. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi dvda,

    "Digitally identical" would refer to the data encoded on the CDs. In my experience, this is very far from a guarantee of identical sound.

    In those days, when big sales were expected, as they were with an artist like Led Zepellin, I'd create a CD master and send clones of the master to several pressing facilities. As I've said before, all the CDs that came back sounded different from each other and none sounded indistinguishable from the CD master from which it was made. (This is just as true today, though some plants do a better job than others.)

    Most of the time when I got to do the comparisons, I ended up feeling the ones from Specialty (in Olyphant, PA) were the best representation of what I sent out. I know a lot of folks seek out the earliest Polygram (i.e. "target") pressings but to my ears, neither those or the ones from Japan sounded as good as the ones from Specialty.

    Gee. Is my saying this going to start a rush for Specialty pressings over targets? :sigh:

    Best regards,
    Barry
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
     
  5. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    Thanks to this topic I just discovered that I have a Talking Heads Stop Making Sense target (new avatar). I gave it a spin after work today and it does sound awesome.
     
  6. ivan_wemple

    ivan_wemple Senior Member

    Probably! Didn't Specialty do a lot of the "record club" pressings for Columbia House?
     
  7. You should check to make sure the channels are not reversed.

    I wish I could give the Zepp IV target a thumbs up, but it's maybe the only Zeppelin CD that doesn't impress me much. The vinyl for 'IV' is really the way to go for that album. I might add that it wasn't until I heard a good vinyl pressing, that I realized how much the CD (target), was lacking.
     
  8. nightflight75

    nightflight75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    The non-remastered IV was one of the first few CDs I bought in 1986. I distinctly remember thinking it sounded quite a bit worse than the vinyl. That's probably a pretty big difference if I could notice it!!

    My Houses of the Holy was probably purchased late '86 or early '87 and is a target. But if it's the same mastering as the non-target, I can't see why anyone would pay a premium for it over the non-target.
     
  9. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi Ivan,

    It might be possible.
    When I was at Atlantic, I remember making separate clones of the CD master for Columbia House. I'd have guessed they were replicated at DADC but don't know for sure.

    I recall Specialty being the "in house" facility for Atlantic, Elektra, Warner, etc.

    Best regards,
    Barry
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
     
  10. bru87tr

    bru87tr 80’s rule

    Location:
    MA
    :righton:
     
  11. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    The original Zepp cds are good...but the remasters ain't bad either.
     
  12. ATSMUSIC

    ATSMUSIC Senior Member

    Location:
    MD, USA
    Diament didn't master 4 (someone correct me if I am wrong)
     
  13. ATSMUSIC

    ATSMUSIC Senior Member

    Location:
    MD, USA
    YES!
     
  14. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Correct. The original CDs of LZ4 are by Joe Sidore.
     
  15. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    So, THAT's what you guys mean by 'TARGETS'. Oh, so, in the end, it's considered a rare item to have these copies? Interesting. First Cd I ever bought was "Around The World In A Day", and I still have the weird 'long-box' that opened up to show the lyrics. Nice to know it was a smart idea not to sell these.
     
  16. motorcitydave

    motorcitydave Enlightened Rogue In Memoriam

    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Why?
     
  17. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    These cds sound very good to my ears.
     
  18. jsayers

    jsayers Just Drifting....

    Location:
    Horse Shoe, NC
    I have 2 original BD mastered Zeps, #1 & #3. Both of them have an "SRC" printed in the center of the discs. Does this indicate they were pressed at the Specialty facility Barry mentions? By the way, my copy of #3 has a small CRC <Columbia Record Club> printed just under the compact disc digital audio logo on the right of the disc's face. There are no "CRC" markings anywhere on the packaging itself.
     
  19. monewe

    monewe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SCOTLAND
    I have all Barry's Zepp discs and they sound fine to my ears. However the targets especailly HOTH and IV seem to go for lotsa cash.
     
  20. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi jsayers,

    That's it. The SRC at the disc hub, as part of the number, indicates a Specialty pressed disc.

    Back in the day, when I compared them to the Polygram pressings (aka Targets), it was the Specialty discs I chose to keep on my own shelf. It would be interesting to make the same comparison again today.

    Best regards,
    Barry
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
     
  21. jsayers

    jsayers Just Drifting....

    Location:
    Horse Shoe, NC
    Thanks for the reply, Barry, this is good to know as I found your post about the different pressing plants producing product that varies in sound reproduction very interesting and informative. Especially when they are using the same "masters"!
    By the way, I'm glad you're on this forum and take the time to share your first-hand knowledge and experience with us :righton: - John
     
  22. mrbillswildride

    mrbillswildride Internet Asylum Escapee 2010, 2012, 2014

    Found my first Targets...

    Ever since I started coming to this forum, I've been intriged by this Target fanatisicm and its prerequsite back lash... Been try to find some targets used locally for two months now, always to no avail.

    Last week I noticed a Led Zep IV on the wall near the new arrivals section. Left it there. But today I spied another copy in the new arrivals used bin, and comparing the two saw one had a Europe spine and a small whte box on back for europe... Grabbed a few more Cds to look at the Cd labels (there are all sealed in those plastic things, so a clerk has to open them to check the label.) Of the four I took up to the clerk and asked to check out, TWO were targets... On was the euro LZ four (that had been there a week at least on the walll) I about **** a brick where I saw my first target, and didn;t even realize that it was SO rare till i read this whole thread...

    The other target wa Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark....I could not beleive after two months steady searching I find two, just hiding in plain sight, waiting to be discopvered.. I was soooo happy... :righton: :righton: :righton: and they were priced lust like al the used cds... a steal, deal, sweet day...

    Will try to post info. picture later...

    meanwhile, besides what been said above/already,

    What do you know aobut the vintage and/or sound quality of these two...

    that is without any of the details...:shh:

    :cheers:
    cheers,

    mrbill
     
  23. mrbillswildride

    mrbillswildride Internet Asylum Escapee 2010, 2012, 2014

    Here's the picture of the two I found yesterday,,, these are Targets right? fou d one mor today, Van Halen, Diver Down... happy camper... need to read up on my target threads...where they from 1983-1986? best ones? rarest?

    :cheers:
     
  24. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Those are targets - great scores, assuming you got them on the cheap! :righton:

    I'd be happy to take that "Led Zep IV" if you're interested in selling or trading!
     
  25. Wow, you did just fine MrBill! Great snag for those rare discs :righton:

    -s1m0n-
     
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