The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    The Top Of The Pops performance for this song (presumably from the one week it was actually going up in the charts) also miraculously exists.

     
  2. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    One of the few covers this song ever attracted was from Fairground Attraction singer Eddi Reader, who commented that the song was the perfect track already pre written to describe her own baby son.

    I’ve always liked the live performance of it she did with the Kast Off Kinks (including Dalton and Avory in this iteration) for the Meltdown festival that Ray curated in 2011. Good job!

     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  3. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    Maybe so. Especially since it was not 1966 or 1967 anymore. Suddenly, it was 1968, certainly not the best year to release their first (mostly) guitar-free single…
    But these are two very different discussions. The genius of Wonderboy as a song is one, and I’ll stand by my love for it. Its flop as a single is another.
    I'd say its failure has something to do with the lyrics. Not that there’s anything wrong with them, I think they’re fabulous, poetic and deep, as Ray seems to (briefly) enter a more personal/philosophical phase in his writing (the next single would be Days). But I think they’re not British or topical or satirical or pointed enough (not at all) and in that context, it’s possible Ray’s music-hall delivery didn’t work its charm in the same way with his audience. It sounds like he was aiming at a kind of itinerant/troubadour style, fantasizing himself as a street singer with a barrel organ and a monkey, a street entertainer who could also dabble in serious philosophical ideas or personal considerations if he wanted to. Here, he sings to his child to be and about himself. The record buying crowds didn’t embrace it, because they probably wanted him to sing to (and about) them…
     
  4. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    "Wonderboy"

    Did this one break Ray's run of golden singles? The public seemed to think so. Me, I'm not sure. Oddly, this is one of those Kinks tracks that I have no strong opinion about, and no particular hot takes on. I don't dislike it, but neither does it jump out at me as a great record. As one of those standalone singles that comes into my orbit much less often than the albums, it's not a quandary I have to think about too often. I'd say that it's maybe too baroque and - dare I say "camp" - to stand a chance of being a hit single in 1968. I'll be interested in reading others' opinions on this track, but this is about all I have got on "Wonderboy"!
     
  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Reference guide

    Oct 1963 - Nov 1966

    1967

    Apr 1967 Mr Pleasant - Alt version - Beat Club - live - beat club - instr (whistling)
    This Is Where I Belong - Ray live - Ray with Francis Black

    May 1967 Mr Pleasant EP
    Mr Pleasant
    This Is Where I Belong
    Two Sisters - Ray live (with chat)
    Village Green - Instrumental - Ray

    My 1967 Waterloo Sunset - instr. - live 73 - Ray live 78 - live 94 - Ray and Damon Albarn - doco excerpt - Ray and Bowie - Ray live (Peter dedication)
    Art Nice and Gentle

    May 1967 Waterloo Sunset EP

    Documentary

    Jul 1967 Death Of A Clown - Dave Live - Dave live 2002

    Sept 1967 Something Else By
    David Watts - Live 84 - Dave live 97 - Ray live 2010 - Alt mono - alt version
    Death Of A Clown
    Two Sisters
    No Return
    Harry Rag - BBC - Ray 2010 - alt version
    Tin Soldier Man - Sand On My Shoes (original) - Alt backing track
    Situation Vacant - mono
    Love Me Till The Sun Shines - BBC - live 69 - Dave 97 - stereo
    Lazy Old Sun - alt version
    Afternoon Tea - German Stereo - Alt stereo - Canadian Mono
    Funny Face
    End Of The Season
    Waterloo Sunset

    Little Women backing track

    Dave And Ray interview sixties

    Echoes Of The World - The Making Of Village Green Preservation Society

    Oct 1967 Autumn Almanac - stereo - Top Of The Pops - live fan jam - Ray - breakdown

    Nov 1967 Sunny Afternoon LP

    Nov 1967 Susannah's Still Alive - stereo - video

    1967 BBC sessions - Sunny Afternoon
    Autumn Almanac
    Mr Pleasant
    Susannah's Still Alive
    David Watts
    Death Of A Clown
    Good Luck Charm

    Jan 1968 Live at Kelvin Hall
    Part 1

    Part 2

    Jan 1968 Wonderboy - video - Top Of The Pops
     
  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    It seems to me that the sentimentality factor probably doesn't gel with the we are the future, psychedelia fashion of the day. As you say, from a fan perspective, a fan that had gotten used to Ray singing about good old England and the social situations, this was probably not something they were ready for.... or even more sadly, even wanted.
     
  7. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Wonderboy

    As far as the song goes, another great. very catchy song. Oasis must have thought so, since they ripped it off for "She's Electric".

    The arrangement and performance almost sound deliberately challenging though. The incessant "la-la-la-la"-ing and the slow, woozy stoned-sounding delivery. It staggers from side to side. It almost sounds like a parody of a flower-power record. I can imagine people, both then and now, who would have liked the song if sung in a straighter style, getting put off either by the nursery rhyme/playpen feel or the stench of marijuana. However you play it, I think this song would always have those childhood/druggy elements, but they really emphasize them to the nth degree so you can't possibly miss them.

    Now, I wasn't there in early 1968. Maybe at that time these elements were hip, up to the minute, and commercial. Maybe I'm speaking too much with the benefit of hindsight given that it wasn't a big hit. Anyway, something must have gone awry somewhere for this only to get to #30.

    Enough negativity. What a beautiful song with beautiful lyrics. Another classic.
     
  8. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    By 1968, psychedelia was being morphed into "heavy" blues type songs & attitude, the prime example being Fleetwood Mac. As I earlier pointed out, the other extreme in the pop charts in the era was for songs like "Honey". The Kinks were seen as being a bit long in the tooth, just like the Who, whose "Dogs" single was also a bit of a flop around the same time.
     
  9. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    Wonderboy
    I'm a little surprised by how much negativity this song seems to attract, though I do think it's below the high standard of other singles they had around this time. I find Wonderboy as a song to be innocent and charming - all the more for the fact it was released at a time when popular music was moving in a very different direction. It could be better regarded if Ray had put it on VGPS rather than a stand-alone single. Whether that would have made VGPS a better album is another question.
     
  10. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    I'm not surprised John Lennon liked it - 13 years' later he wrote the far more sentimental Beautiful Boy.

    Here are some book excerpts I've picked up about the song, which Ray wrote in a period of stress (for example, in the midst of a long court case about publishing rights and a doomed extramarital affair):

    "One night out of sheer desperation i took a large bottle of vodka - finished it all - while I wrote the lyrics to Wonderboy ...It felt the people who bought the record had not understood my own little subtext. They were buying a Kinks record. To me it was a cry for help." (Ray, X-Ray)

    "The alcohol may explain its uniquely tongue-tied and inarticulate optimism....But his strangely squeezed, thin voice on record doesn't sound quite serious, and half the harmonies too verge on parodic." Nick Hasted (The Story of the Kinks)

    "It should never have been released." Ray, August 1967
    "It did well...it reached the peak of what I expected it to. A creative person should be allowed to fail. It was a comparative failure." Ray, much later by the sound of it.
     
  11. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    While I don't agree with Peter Quaife's negativity on this song, his situation reminds me a bit of John Lennon's views on being forced to do endless takes of Maxwell's Silver Hammer. But I have to say Quaife did a scathing review like few others:

    "It sounded like Herman's Hermits wa-nk-ing...I hated it. I remember recording it and doing the la la las and just thinking "what kind of prissy sissy nonsense are we doing? We're the guys that made You Really Got Me for Chrissakes." :D
     
  12. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    It seems like Pete overall wasn’t especially excited by the musical direction the band took in 1967-68 as compared to the earlier, guitar power chord stuff. Purportedly he mocked "Days"as well. I’m not sure what the man’s natural proclivities were with music but I wonder if he would have remained more engaged if The Kinks had not strayed down the music hall/observational vignette/baroque path and instead evolved from the early power chords toward a heavy metal or electric blues, ala Cream. These are just guesses, of course…and there are other reasons why post-Wonderboy he was not long with the band.
     
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  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    It certainly seems possible, he preferred heavier/more aggressive music ... the other possibility is that he was a Dedicated Follower of Fashion.... and to some degree The Kinks couldn't have been more unfashionable if they tried at this point in time..... and I think that is just another thing that makes me like them so much.
     
  14. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    This is why John Mendelssohn, in his liner notes for The Kinks Kronikles, referred to Wonderboy as a “popcorn” song. That is implicatively dismissive, but I find Wonderboy Wonder-ful.

    Like Autumn Almanac, it has a lot of moving parts all coming together in a satisfying whole. I find the song criminally under-appreciated based on it’s comparative commercial failure in the singles market. But consider this: its “failure” was nothing more than there being 29 other fantastic songs the record buying public was lining up for that week. (I write that with the knowledge someone will google the weekly charts and post them here to prove I don’t know what I’m talking about. Thank you in advance.)
     
  15. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    Wonderboy
    No wonder Lennon liked it... those are some very Beatle-esque backing vocals. In fact, i hear the fabs in many elements of the song.

    Personally, I like it but not nearly as much as Lennon or most here on this thread. I see Quaife's point although I don't agree with his underlying premise. As we discussed at the time, while You Really Got Me was their first big hit, it doesn't define the Kinks the way '66 - '70 do, and this song is more in line with the definitive Kinks. But definitely second or third tier for me as it's a bit of a plodded and yes, the la lad are a bit much.
     
  16. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I don’t think Quaife was into much heavier music than the rest of the group. I’ve read some of his influences in the later 60s included Simon and Garfunkel and Tim Hardin, so I’m thinking if anything he may have leant folkier.

    He did still like a lot of Ray’s songs and spoke highly of VGPS. It mainly seem to be the camper more music hally stuff he couldn’t stick, or the stuff that appeared that way to him anyway. And VGPS, despite its rep as the acme of the Kinks quintessentially English phase, is actually a pretty musically diverse album, so I can hear how it was more in Quaifes wheelhouse.
     
  17. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Well, this goes to show how addicted I am to this discussion!

    My brain semi-consciously anticipated that we were at this point in the thread, by giving me an on-topic funny/strange dream this morning. I had received a bootleg of the Kinks's "Wonderboy Sessions." The song appeared in other iterations, most memorably a overpowering orchestral one -- it wasn't necessarily better, just louder, schmaltzier, and more expensive sounding. "Ray labored for months on the recording, and financially it wiped out the band and almost destroyed them." This was all just a dream, you understand. It was nonetheless a little uncanny to turn on my computer and see Mark's opening "Wonderboy" post.

    I love the song. I even love the arrangement, though I agree that if doesn't come together in a way that might lead to a hit single. The parallel to the Who's "Dogs" is appropriate (another oddball flop that I love), as is the mention of "Lady Madonna" and "Jumping Jack Flash." Interesting... The beginning of 1968 was marked by each of these bands trying to redefine themselves for a new year with non-album singles that set themselves apart from their prior work, with varying degrees of success.

    Compare to "Waterloo Sunset." That song is basically a ballad. But it has some hard elements in it: the Sun Records slapback on the guitar, the hard strumming of the tinny acoustic, the general hardness of the section starting "sha la la, Every day I look at the world from my window...". It's an exercise in musical cognitive dissonance which matches the words. Surely this pretty song isn't going to pummel us, is it? "Wonderboy" is mostly cotton candy softness in comparison, beyond some of the darkness of the singing, and the closing lyrics.

    "Wonderboy" has the single worst vintage stereo mix of any 60's Kinks track, as found on a "Golden Hour" comp ... and rarely anywhere else. (Mono version is standard.) I have a hunch the stereo might have been created for Ray to sing over on live TV, as the lead vocal is ducked SO far back. Or, by some shmoe later on, in a rush, for that comp?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Certainly not to prove you wrong, just out of interest.... and your comment made me interested in what the chart looked like.....

    It is rather odd to me.... The Official UK Chart says that the song maxed out at 36, on 17th April 1968, in its first week, and it was at 40 the next week.

    To me the chart looks like a typical pop chart ... not much to get excited about, a few good songs, but more songs that I wouldn't really want to hear again :)

    Official Singles Chart Top 50 | Official Charts Company

    1 1
    CONGRATULATIONS
    CLIFF RICHARD
    COLUMBIA

    2 3
    WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD/CABARET
    LOUIS ARMSTRONG
    HMV

    3 5
    IF I ONLY HAD TIME
    JOHN ROWLES
    MCA

    4 2
    DELILAH
    TOM JONES
    DECCA

    5 7
    SIMON SAYS
    1910 FRUITGUM COMPANY
    PYE INTERNATIONAL

    6 4
    LADY MADONNA
    THE BEATLES
    PARLOPHONE

    7 10
    JENNIFER ECCLES
    THE HOLLIES
    PARLOPHONE

    8 6
    (SITTIN' ON) THE DOCK OF THE BAY
    OTIS REDDING
    STAX

    9 8
    STEP INSIDE LOVE
    CILLA BLACK
    PARLOPHONE

    10 17
    CAN'T TAKE MY EYES OFF YOU
    ANDY WILLIAMS
    CBS


    11 9
    IF I WERE A CARPENTER
    THE FOUR TOPS
    TAMLA MOTOWN

    12 12
    VALLERI
    THE MONKEES
    RCA

    13 14
    I CAN'T LET MAGGIE GO
    HONEYBUS
    DERAM

    14 16
    AIN'T NOTHIN' BUT A HOUSEPARTY
    SHOWSTOPPERS
    BEACON

    15 13
    CAPTAIN OF YOUR SHIP
    REPARATA AND THE DELRONS
    BELL

    16 11
    CINDERELLA ROCKEFELLA
    ESTHER AND ABI OFARIM
    PHILIPS

    17 23
    CRY LIKE A BABY
    THE BOX TOPS
    BELL

    18 22
    SOMETHING HERE IN MY HEART (KEEPS A-TELLIN' ME NO)
    PAPER DOLLS
    PYE

    19 19
    LOVE IS BLUE (L'AMOUR EST BLEU)
    PAUL MAURIAT
    PHILIPS

    20 15
    ROSIE
    DON PARTRIDGE
    COLUMBIA

    21 18
    LEGEND OF XANADU
    DAVE DEE, DOZY, BEAKY, MICK AND TICH
    FONTANA

    22 42
    WHITE HORSES
    JACKY
    PHILIPS

    23 28
    LITTLE GREEN APPLES
    ROGER MILLER
    MERCURY
    23 4

    ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK {1968}
    BILL HALEY AND HIS COMETS
    MCA
    20 3

    SOMEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY
    GENE PITNEY
    STATESIDE

    26 35
    HELLO, HOW ARE YOU
    EASYBEATS
    UNITED ARTISTS

    27 43
    I DON'T WANT OUR LOVING TO DIE
    HERD
    FONTANA

    28 21
    ME THE PEACEFUL HEART
    LULU
    COLUMBIA

    29 25
    JUMBO/THE SINGER SANG HIS SONG
    THE BEE GEES
    POLYDOR

    30 27
    SHE WEARS MY RING
    SOLOMON KING
    COLUMBIA

    31 New
    LAZY SUNDAY
    THE SMALL FACES
    IMMEDIATE

    32 26
    FIRE BRIGADE
    THE MOVE
    REGAL ZONOPHONE

    33 24
    JENNIFER JUNIPER
    DONOVAN
    PYE

    34 34
    DO YOU REMEMBER?
    THE SCAFFOLD
    PARLOPHONE

    35 32
    PEGGY SUE/RAVE ON
    BUDDY HOLLY
    MCA

    36 New
    [​IMG]
    WONDER BOY
    THE KINKS
    PYE
    36 1
     
  19. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    "Peggy Sue" was back on the charts?!?
     
  20. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I only had to go as far as #5--"Simon Says" by 1910 Fruitgum Company--to verify, yeah, I was wrong. Wonderboy was a failure. I can see why it left a bad taste in Rays mouth.
     
  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    and Rock Around The Clock ... There are a few surprises to me really there.
    It's nice to see Cliff Richard up the top though. The King of English pop music, and all round nice guy (to the best of my knowledge)... although not one of his songs I am particularly big on.
     
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    LOL "Put your hands in the air"
    Pop charts have always been dodgy. I have always found it odd that in hindsight folks often go on about how hip and cool specific periods in time are, and if you ever look at the singles chart, you generally see a bunch of ..... urrm, less than musically satisfactory songs :)
     
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  23. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    There was a kind of mini 50s rock and roll revival in the UK in early 1968, hence the reissued oldies on that chart.
     
  24. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Given the failure of "Wonderboy," it's surprising that someone (Ray? Pye?) picked "Starstruck" as the single off VGPS. To me they are similarly "cute" and quiet songs with soft backing vocals. Not interchangeable, but one could have predicted the failure of the latter from the failure of the former. "Days," inbetween, is also a ballad, but has hard elements... Again, the strategy or tendency that seemed to work on the Kinks' commercially successful ballads of the time.
     
  25. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    And possibly why the Fats Domino-esque "Lady Madonna" was the right Beatles song for the time, and "Wonderboy" was so off target. Pop charts. It's all about the timing.
     

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