Combos of the Lucha Bros, Pac, Moxley and Kingston have, that is true. However you save the Street Fight for the babyface to get their revenge. I know there was a title match because of the non title match lost last week, but the street fight gimmick wasn't needed. The psychology is backward. The clean cut team even if they are heels shouldn't feel at an advantage in a street fight over Eddie Kingston.
Now I need to go back and see if the bucks really made this match stipulation or the team that won last week. Aren’t they blaming the young bucks for fenix being out or something ?
The Bucks took out Moxley, Fenix and PAC. That's why it would make far more sense if the Kingston/Penta crew would want a street fight match with the Bucks at some point. However this week it just came across as they randomly added a stipulation to the tag title match. That's maybe my main complaint about AEW is they don't do the best job on Dynamite of explaining why something is important or why it is happening. They assume that everyone follows their youtube and social media.
agreed and they act like the fans have followed these guys forever. i think fenix/penta have been feuding with the young bucks in various companies for the last 5 years or so too
Revisiting the good old days again, I think the argument can be made that Mr. McMahon is the greatest heel in the history of pro wrestling, but I could argue that he was 1a and Bobby Heenan was 1b. Heenan was so good, and he always exactly how to get a rise out of the fans. Prime Time with him and Gorilla Monsoon was a comedic gold mine there for a few years.
I can see the argument for Vince, but I couldn't say Vince or Heenan just because they weren't close to being full time wrestlers. They were missing that part of the whole package. Heenan is the greatest manager of all time and Vince may be the best TV personality in wrestling history. The problem with people who are really great charismatic heels is they can get so great at it that the fans no longer want to boo them. It happened with Flair, Piper, Bockwinkel and countless others. For greatest heel, it's hard to pick an old school NWA champion since they almost always were faces in their home territory, but it would be somewhere between Flair, Piper & Race. Just under the radar is Tully Blanchard. He was such a great heel that when the other Horsemen were starting to get cheers, Tully was the only one who was almost universally booed.
Piper was hilariously entertaining, but my beef with Piper was always his refusal to put people over. As a major heel, you have to at some point put the faces over, and he always refused to allow himself to get pinned. The only time I remember him getting pinned during his WWF run of the mid 80's through early 90's was in the face vs face I-C title match against Bret Hart. Fair points. Flair is certainly in the convo, and even when he was a face, he still wrestled the same way and did the same dirty tactics, but the fans cheered him then. The one big difference of course was that the Horseman never ran in to get him intentionally disqualified to save his title when he was face like they did for him he was a heel. Even though I am not much of a Triple H fan, I think he was a really good heel. He never worked as a face, simply because he lacks charisma and the way he works in the ring is more heel-ish in general. Same for Randy Orton, although the RKO always gets a pop. He still works way better as a heel.
agree i think you also need to be a full time wrestler . i'd say jerry lawler ranks above them only because he was a full time wrestler
I always thought Wrestlemania 2 should have been the blowoff for Piper vs Hogan instead of Hogan vs Bundy. They even could have had it in a cage so Piper wouldn't have to take the pin, Hogan could just walk out. Piper did a cage match loss to Bruno earlier in 86, so he seemed at least willing to do that.
I should have worded that better. I meant he didn't work "well" as a face, especially given his (too often) main event status. DX was probably the one time where he probably did work well as a face, but that was because he was part of a group. On his own, he did not work well as a good face, IMO. He is more of a natural heel.
Agreed. Granted, it was customary back then for feuds to end and be resolved at house shows, not on TV, but given how big that Piper/Hogan feud was, to never have a proper ending to it on SNME or a Wrestlemania was odd, and I am sure it was because Piper refused to let Hogan pin him.
my guess hogan had some dumb stipulation. he killed peoples pushes and refused to work multiple matches with certain people. piper was probably upset hogan screwed one of his friends over
Maybe, but I think the Hogan screwed people over thing is overblown anyway. Bobby Heenan said it in a shoot in the early 2000's that Hogan would have worked with almost anyone so long as he knew they'd made money. I am sure there are still mid-card guys cursing Hogan in their old age because they never got to wrestle him, but these are likely guys who would have flopped in main events. And Hogan obviously preferred to wrestle bigger, more muscular guys rather than the smaller guys.
I forgot how good of a match Piper & Hart had, especially for two babyfaces battling it out. After watching the Bret Hart documentary I forgot how great a lot of his matches were and miss that style of wrestling and storyline builds they had over the many feuds. And damn do I miss Piper, you could still rely on him to walk out into the ring after he hung up his boots and cut a fantastic promo and make someone like Cena look like a million bucks and put him into his place at the same time.
hogan made up an excuse so he only had to wrestle HBK in one match. supposedly hogan killed stunning steves austin push . coming into the company and inserting himself into main event spots that they were trying to push steve austin into pretty much saying i'm here and no one cares about this steve guy drop him. bret hart, HBK and yokozuna were made at hogan for the politics he pulled to be able to come out at the end of wrestlemania 9 and become the champ again. the list goes on and on.
Bret Hart was awesome in the ring. Always one of my favorites. His matches always told a story, and rarely needed pre-planned spots or huge pop moments in order to do so.
I don't think Hogan was like that in 86, mainly because he was never going to be asked to lose. Now by 1993 Hogan was definitely like that refusing to lose to Bret Hart and would be for the rest of his career. More than likely Piper just knew if he lost to Hogan he'd fall down the card, so he was protecting his spot by never getting pinned by him.
To be fair, Austin wasn't over in WCW like he later was in the WWF, and Hogan coming to WCW to do anything less than main eventing right off the bat wouldn't have made sense, so I don't hold that against him, I did think the WM9 thing was weird, but I think Hogan made the right call to lose it back to Yoko instead of to Bret at SummerSlam. A face vs face Hogan/Bret match wouldn't have been good.
Hart was incredible. One of the all time greats. My only complaint about him is he was constantly saying that Flair had the same matches and same moves every night. 1) He obviously didn't see Flair pre-1988 or so. 2) He obviously never watched his own comeback. It was the same 5 moves in the same order every time. Watch Hart vs Perfect at SummerSlam 91 then again at King Of The Ring 93. Virtually the same great match, just Perfect was a step slower due to his back in the second one.
Not to be too much of a Hogan apologist, but Hogan did put Lex Luger over in a big way in '97 by losing the title to him by submission (as opposed to Flair who managed to never lose to Luger via pinfall or submission despite their 399 PPV matches), and did lose clean to Piper at a Starrcade (cannot recall which year).
doesn't matter if someone is over yet. the story is he pretty much told WCW drop this steve guy hence they way he was fired out of the blue while hurt. hart and HBK at different times both have said in 1993 there was no plans at all for hogan to ever be the champ again. he pretty much threatened to take his services elsewhere if they didn't change all their plans and pushes and make him the champ again
Hogan vs Yoko at King Of The Ring wasn't good either. It wasn't about having a good match, it was more about Hogan putting Hart over as the new top guy. As far as Hogan arriving in WCW, it wasn't that Hogan was the guy holding down Austin... it was that all of Hogan's buddies came in and pushed him down the card. All of the sudden Duggan, Beefcake, Honky and others arrived and Austin went from US champion to middle card behind guys who were just there collecting a paycheck.
