Bob Dylan – The Bootleg Series Vol.16: Springtime In New York (1980–1985) (Content & Sound Quality)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DeeThomaz, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. Percy Song

    Percy Song A Hoity-Toity, High-End Client

    It was going to be a four CD set but as John Bauldie mentioned in 1992 in his witty presentation about the circumstances surrounding his employment as the liner notes writer:-


    "It was originally a four CD collection of seventy tracks.... So then I got the list.... Here I have the original list he [Jeff Rosen] faxed with those big heavy scorings.... I will read the ones that were on the list and didn't make it to the album... as you know, at the last minute.... the collection was cut down from four CDs to three CDs..... But we didn't lose a complete CD... we did lose a number of tracks, although it was specifically tailored that every one of the [remaining] three CDs was absolutely crammed with music..."


    It was a commercial decision to drop to three CDs. The axed tracks, in the positions on the original list of 70 selections for the 4CDs as sent by fax to JB by JR, as read out by JB at the talk in 1992, are these.

    2. Poor Lazarus (Hotel Tape)
    4. Handsome Molly (Gaslight '62)
    16. Sally Gal (studio outtake)
    18. Bob Dylan's New Orleans Rag (studio)
    20. Hero Blues
    21. Long Ago, Far Away
    22. Long Time Gone
    23. All Over You (Witmark demo)
    27. Guess I'm Doin' Fine
    36. Dusty Old Fairgrounds (live '63)
    42. It's All Over Now, Baby Blue (outtake)
    49. You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go (outtake)
    59. Ain't Gonna Go To Hell (live '80)


    There were other un-numbered track titles scribbled in margins and some tracks crossed-out, and thus unreadable, also. Initial ideas / suggestions, perhaps:-


    Rocks & Gravel
    Get Your Rocks Off
    Sign On The Cross
    Shot Of Love (live '81)
    It Ain't Me, Babe (Renaldo & Clara version)
    Yonder Comes Sin
    John Brown (Grateful Dead rehearsal)

     
  2. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    My knowledge of the original, four-CD "Bootleg Series Vols. 1-4" is almost entirely derived from Clinton Heylin's Goldmine article, which was co-opted as the liner notes for the first unauthorized Genuine Bootleg Series set. According to Heylin, the original four-disc version was still missing some "major" tracks -- he names "I'm Not There," "Sign On The Cross," "All You Have To Do Is Dream," "Yonder Comes Sin," the original "Caribbean Wind" and "New Danville Girl" -- but included many of the songs listed above by @Justin Brooks
    Heylin's article listed most of these songs; if you can get past the usual hyperbole, catastrophizing and finger-pointing, it's really an interesting article. Of course, he makes out the resulting Bootleg Series Vols. 1-3 to be so fatally flawed that it's almost a waste of time, but it's still brilliant, even if it could have been MORE brilliant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  3. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Thanks for that, especially for the track numbers where the cut tracks would have been. Seems a little crazy to me that most of the cut tracks were from 1961-1963 -- and Acoustic Bob is STILL (arguably) over-represented on BS1-3. I would have filled in more 1970s and 1980s spots, myself -- but then, Jeff Rosen didn't ask me, haha...
     
  4. Percy Song

    Percy Song A Hoity-Toity, High-End Client



    At the convention talk in 1992 John Bauldie said he gave some further suggestions by telephone to Jeff Rosen whose responses are in "inverted" commas:-

    I Was Young When I Left Home - "No"
    Pastures of Plenty - "No. Woody's version is infinitely superior"
    Dink's Song - "No"
    I'm Not There - "Ridiculous - doesn't even sound like a song"
    She's Your Lover Now - "We're putting the fast band version on"
    She's Your Lover Now (piano slow version) - "Oh yeah, that's pretty good .... yeah, yeah, we'll put 'em both on"
    Nobody 'Cept You - "I'll check it out"
    Silent Weekend - "It's no good" (laughing)
    Every Grain of Sand (with the dog - Joel Bernstein raves a bout it) - "I'll check it out, never thought about it"
    No Man Righteous - "Never thought about that, I'll check it out"
    Series of Dreams - "What????"
    Working On A Guru
    Church With No Upstairs

    (The last was, as JB said in 1992, "a joke for those of us over 40 years of age")
     
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  5. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Great stuff ... Jeff hadn't heard of "Series Of Dreams"? It was only a couple of years earlier! "Working On A Guru" always seemed like a no-brainer for an expanded Vols. 1-4 -- not because it's the greatest song in the world, but because it was a well-known bootleg, it's a fairly coherent recording, and it features George Harrison. I'm with Jeff on "I'm Not There" -- whatever the charms are of that song (and apparently there are many for some), they have always eluded me. Looks like John got a couple of his suggestions on there though, thank goodness...
     
  6. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Hearing Sonic Youth's version certainly helped me to appreciate it more. Ultimately though, his lyrics there and throughout most of the Basement Tapes songs are full of gibberish and good humor. Songs like I'm Not There sound like they should be deep but there's nothing really there...

    And then John Wesley Harding is so dense with allusions, biblical and historical. Never ceases to amaze me.

    And on a personal note, I bought John Wesley Harding on a gorgeous August night after talking a nice walk through the city. And then just over a week later, I took a very similar walk, and bought the Basement Tapes. And a month later, I saw Dylan perform in Bethel. He didn't perform anything from either album. Although later in the year, I did see him play You Ain't Going Nowhere in Brooklyn.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  7. musicaner

    musicaner Forum Resident

    i hope they put out Straight As In Love.
     
  8. Percy Song

    Percy Song A Hoity-Toity, High-End Client

    The "What????" was more JR's surprise that John Bauldie knew about and had heard "Series of Dreams." JR didn't know it had escaped, apparently.

    Yes, it's good to know that JB had input.

    Here is some more:-

    JR phoned JB to tell him about many of the performances he was considering for inclusion, several of which even JB had not heard. "It's really good, I must get you to hear this stuff sometime, John"

    JB: "Yes you must.....


    Later, on Boxing Day (December 26th, 1990) Jeff calls John: "Have you started yet?"

    "No. It's Christmas"

    "There's been a change of plan.. Bob's getting a... Grammy... in February...we wanna get the album out three months early..."

    "Well, how long have I got?"

    "What about six days?"


    In fact, he was given ten days. Okay, he thought, 70 or 75 songs (about fifteen of which he had never heard) in ten days equals one song an hour.

    JR: "About this stuff you've not heard. You will be contacted shortly by a man you do not know. He will have in his possession a tape. He will play this tape for you as many times as you want to hear it and then he will take the tape away with him."

    A couple of days later the phone rings:-

    "You don't know me but I have here a tape that I would like you to listen to..... I'm Bob's British accountant..... I take care of financial matters for Bob when he is in the country. He doesn't like money, you know."

    JB: "You could have fooled me!..... When should I come down to your office?"

    "No use coming round here; we don't have a tape recorder....I'll have to come to your house."


    The accountant came round on a Wednesday at 2 o'clock and said, "Here's the tape, the taxi's coming at quarter past three. Gotta be out of here by then."

    JB: "It's a ninety-minute tape...!"

    Accountant: "Play it as quickly as you can!!"
     
  9. NewWarden

    NewWarden Forum Resident

    You’ve come a long way, Jeffrey. Imagine telling him he'd eventually release The Spanish Song and all 0:24 of "Big Dog Won't You Please Come Home."
     
  10. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    My goodness, what a story! Seems to be the way Bob Inc. operates ... Peter Stone Brown told me a very similar story of how he came to write the original (ultimately rejected) liner notes for Tell Tale Signs... very cloak-and-dagger, crazy time crunch, etc.

    EDIT: Your "Series Of Dreams" explanation makes more sense than what I was imagining!
     
  11. PimentDouceur

    PimentDouceur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    NO MORE EARLY 60S BASHING!

    Honestly, pre Freewheelin era might be to most maligned other than Knocked Out Loaded! Bob's self titled is actually what got me into Dylan! I want early gigs officially released
     
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  12. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Who's bashing the early '60s? I certainly wasn't ... I'll welcome it whenever they get around to releasing this so-called "Coffeehouse Bob" set ... I have many of the boots and the Copyright 1962 set -- all great stuff.
     
  13. My Echo My Shadow And Me

    My Echo My Shadow And Me Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, the BS 1–3 version of Series Of Dreams was completed in early 1991.
     
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  14. streetlegal

    streetlegal Forum Resident

    You certainly hedge your bets--and then gloat at your "in the know" predictive powers.
     
  15. Percy Song

    Percy Song A Hoity-Toity, High-End Client

    :)

    "So I played the tape.... as a special treat for me at the end Jeff had put "Silent Weekend"..... I got in touch and said, "Jeff, "Silent Weekend", it's great!""
    JR: "No."


    ".... by now I had delivered the bulk of the notes... I was at home, it was gone midnight.... the phone rang... A click and then "Like A Rolling Stone" came on, the waltz version. Down the phone, ten past midnight...."

    JR: "What do you think about that?"
    JB: "Very interesting."
    JR: That's gonna be on the box... Write a note for it."
    JB: "Okay, then!"

    "I completed the notes... sent them through and didn't see anything or hear anything until XXXX called me up and said "Got the box, it's in HMV". I said, great, fine, must go and buy one."

    "XXXX then phoned me up at ten minute intervals saying, "This is a different "Idiot Wind", a different "Tell Me"....."
     
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  16. Dave Gilmour's Cat

    Dave Gilmour's Cat Forum Resident

    My title suggestions were off by a million miles!
     
  17. Percy Song

    Percy Song A Hoity-Toity, High-End Client

    Yes, rejected, but many of PSB's words and insights ended up being "written" by Ratso. I can imagine PSB being quite cross about that.
     
  18. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    My “More Julius, More Ethel” suggestion also seems to have gone unheeded.
     
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  19. musicaner

    musicaner Forum Resident

    there are the tapes with Sweet Caroline, Neil Diamond has a copy.
     
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  20. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Canada
    Springtime in NY? Pfft...

    Doesn’t hold a candle to Dream Twister!
     
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  21. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    “Outfidels” is always going to be way cooler.
     
  22. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    I'd not malign any Dylan material. However I will say, there are already so many releases from Dylan's early years, I'm far more interested to hear more contemporary stuff. And when I say "contemporary", I'm talking about more from the last 40 years. I love love love the run from Infidels to Oh Mercy. It's probably my favorite Dylan. No, to hell with it, it IS my favorite Dylan. So I'd be thrilled with anything I get, but an Infidels box, and later stuff in the box after that, would be wonderful.

    Oh, and Sony - none of this keeping the disc count down. Fill the box. And if the box gets full, design a bigger box.
     
  23. gearyoleary

    gearyoleary Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cornwall
    I for one am very keen for an early-mid 80s set, particularly if it’s strips back some of the studio sheen from albums like EB. Shame for us vinyl lovers if this turns out to be just a 2XLP set. Dunno why they’ve stopped producing vinyl box sets of the bootleg series, particularly when you see some of the massive vinyl sets being put out recently from other artists (Tom Petty Wildflowers, Prince Sign of the times..) Still, looking forward to an official announcement :)
     
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  24. PES

    PES Forum Resident

    Exciting news about Bootleg Series, Volume 16. I will admit one slight bit of disappointment though. My hope was it would have ben a reevaluation of the Empire Burlesque - Down in the Groove period. Maybe producing as revelatory a reassessment of those albums as Another Self-Portrait was of the Self Portrait album. Oh well, maybe down the road...
     
  25. mike s in nyc

    mike s in nyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york, NY
    I was very happy to hear the dates 1980-85, if its true, as that'll hopefully mean that the live version from Nov or Dec '80 of 'lets keep it between us' will be released. THey must have it, they released other songs from one of those concerts in nov/dec '80 on 'trouble no more'. Its such an essential Dylan song, I think, in terms of major unreleased songs. There is at least one (and probably several) studio rehersal takes of it too, tho I remember the one studio take I heard of it didn't capture the energy of the live version.

    And 'up to 1985' means that things like 'new danville girl' could be on there too! (and who knows what we haven't heard!)
     

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