Go to the link and play track 10. It's called "Mapping the Soundstage" for obvious reasons. You can hear about a minute of the track. You will have to get the CD to hear all of it. Stereophile Test CD, Vol. 2 - Various Artists | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic Here is a full description of the track Stereophile's Test CD 2 Track 10
I’m really starting to think the great 50’s, 60’s and 70’s era jazz recordings are the best thing I can judge soundstage with. I somehow know if it feels right.
Caverna Magica by Andreas Vollenweider: huge and spacious. Artificial soundstage artfully done. ...And The Gods Made Love is the first track of Hendrix's Electric Ladyland. It's about a minute and a half of "wtf was that?" The sound leaves the plane of the speakers, enters the room, swirls above, and seemingly vacuums out your skull. In a good way.
Not all speakers can project the power of the organ and reveal the majesty of the bass notes. There are several good recordings - recent ones being the Utah Symphony Orchestra and the Kansas City Symphony Orchestra. As an older recording, I like Karajan, although I know he is not to everyone's taste.
Yes but what does that have to do with soundstage? The physical configuration of the organ and its acoustical representation is so variable from site to site that there is no way to know if the perceived soundstage is real or manipulated (and how). Where are the pipes in the house? Are you listening in stereo or multichannel? Those things make huge differences. You, there are many but, imho, the perception of the soundstage is more dependent on the orchestra and hall than on the organ. In fact, I have several recordings in which the organ is not even in the same building as the orchestra!
In 1962 Juan Esquivel went beyond the traditional stereo soundstage approach by using two seperate soundstages to record Latin-Esque. "This album represents, to the best of our knowledge, the first time in the history of stereo recording in which absolute separation of channels has been achieved. To accomplish this, the orchestra was separated into two parts—half in Studio 1 and the other half in Studio 2, almost a city block down the long corridor of the RCA building in Hollywood. Through an intricate system of inter-communication by headphones, the musicians were able to hear each other and play together just as if they were all in the same room. The effects are startling, the arrangements are daring, and when an instrument moves from side to side it can literally be said that the motion is almost a block long! Five experimental sessions were held prior to the actual recording dates. At these sessions Esquivel and his producer and engineer tried endless different approaches to various percussion instruments with electronic effects applied to them. A careful book of notes was kept with the best and most convincing effects clearly marked, later to be applied to the actual arrangements by Esquivel himself. Space does not allow the details of the effects themselves, but in Latin-Esque by Esquivel you are sure to hear sounds you have never heard before— sounds your eyes can follow." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz5EiqIbHyk
I always "Map" a classical orchestra to test for a complete soundstage. Personally I use Eugene Ormandy/Philadelphia Orchestra/Tchaikovsky/the Nutcracker or some of the "Living Stereo" recordings. Most really good classical orchestra recordings done using good mic techniques will work as the layout is fairly well settled. A well developed "holographic" soundstage will be in three dimensions. There will be front/back/left/right AND it should "play the room." By that I mean you can walk around "the Holodeck" of your soundstage and there is NO SWEET SPOT. The entire ROOM is the sweet spot. It should sound like a really great "surround sound" home theater system. But of course now you can play music recordings in two channel to get that surround sound effect. So you have tens of thousands of "surround sound" recordings to choose from---they don't have to be from movies! Your room should be a replica of a concert held in a large hall. You can walk UP to the stage, go to the far left corner or whatever. And the placement of the musicians should not move at all. The placement should be "visible clearly" even from way off to the side. There should be "no BAD seats" in your room The ENTIRE room should sound excellent and clearly "show" where everybody is sitting in three dimensional space from ANYWHERE. STEREO means "SOLID in Greek. The soundstage should be SOLID. The soundstage should be CONTINUOUS---with no "gaps" in it. Simple, really. My first setup only took five years to make this happen. Now I can do it in less than two years given the right gear and the right room. It takes TIME moving those boxes and adjusting the furniture and sound absorption panels etc. But I am not exaggerating when I tell you I live with an actual three dimension Holodeck over at my house. You can sense the "air" moving when the orchestra puts out a blast of sound. The wave of air coming out of their instruments is palpable. And it moves across the stage.
Some people in this thread should be required to state exactly which illicit pharmaceuticals they used along the way.
Thanks for the very interesting post. I’ll have to follow up on what you suggest listening to. I think a major problem is the space my system is loaded into. Lots of “material clutter”. Fortunately the mid and Hf horns are at a taller level and project above any offending obstructions. I think the speakers design is very adaptable given the size and mandatory placement requirements. PWK really designed a winner in tha department.
Reflected energy is the key. I mentioned earlier I use every trick in the book. My music cabinet captures and releases energy when the doors are left open. It sounds like a "stage" as it captures sound inside it and then throws it out as a definite "center speaker." The doors break up standing waves and flutter echo if I leave them wide open. I then have a large "horn" in the center of my room to reflect sound. The speakers have to be out four feet or so into the room which I am not sure Klipschorns can accomplish due to corner loading. But if you clear away clutter and get reflections to work for you that is the key to three dimensional space imaging. I put a wall of wainscotting Sonex on my right side wall as one speaker was dangerously close to that wall and it was screwing up the room balance. Over the winter I intend to buy some new fresh panels and clean up the looks by gluing them to the wall and making them flatter the room instead of just sitting there, Looks count. But a three dimension room should look good if done well. Most concert halls have a nice "look". And the room should be as clean as a concert hall. NO CLUTTER. Nice flat front wall with some treatment on it--NO RACK unless you make the rack reflect cleanly. I cleared out spaces INSIDE my rack so it is a reflector. I used to use a fireplace and a cast iron "fireback panel" to reflect in my old house. Worked well. But this new cabitet setup is much better!
Some of you may scoff at this post. Dr Fine knows what he is talking about. He did lay it on a little thick but not much. If you look at his profile he has pictures of some pretty big systems. Huge systems like his are not required to get what he is lavishly describing. I run a very small system and get what he is describing. In order to achieve stereo spread like he describes, IT IS PARAMOUNT!!!!!!, that you have a really top notch front end. That means spending some money on phonostage or DAC (for most of us, tape player for the rest). AND!!!!!---Making sure the power going to that front end is filtered!!!!!!. I run a TT, phonostage (usually with no volume/gain control) feeding powered monitors. THAT'S IT!!!!!! My Room is a bedroom converted to a working room in my house. It's where I build phonostages. Boxes off to the side, parts bins, two desks.... My stereo spread in IN YOUR FACE! Mono recordings of opreas from the 1950's have front to back depth. I hear people moving in the orchestra pit. I'm 60 years old. I have sinus allergies. My basic hearing stops at 12khz. I can hear everything on a vinyl pressing like it's being served on a silver plate!!!
+++, however, Ill need to get a cup down me before starting my morning listening sessions. Spilled java on the carpet creates a coffee-house atmosphere, not too desirable for my music room (don't ask)!?! Ted
Couldn't possibly agree MORE. Front end ability to "untangle' where the musicians are standing is PARAMOUNT. I hate to waste money but some more expensive gear really DOES image way better than the cheap stuff. The most notable exception to the rule I know of is the little NAD 3020 integrated. That cheap thing actually keeps images solid like the big boys. Which is partly why it is famous for being a "giant killer." Having said that---any decent budget gear that plays clean works fine too. It may not take you to the top of the class. But setup determines an enormous amount of the result you will get. I have a $150 Klipsch 3-piece (2 sats and a sub) system in the bedroom. I set it up to stage well and it sounds good enough I could live with it if that was all I had. Being a snob is pointless. Hard work is the key. Money will ELEVATE everything but I have a saying: "It's the GUY---not the GEAR!"
This is what the Lounge lab uses for power filtering. These things are tanks! Isobar Premium Surge Protector, 8-Outlet, 3840 Joules, Metal Case | Tripp Lite
DF, Agreed! Well performed/recorded Orchestral works can be Great Testimonials to a well set-up, synergistic 2-channel playback system in a balanced room (not too dead and not too alive)! Also, large cathedral pipe organ/choral group recordings can also offer accurate play back assessment, but with a downside of variable venue acoustics and chorus staging differences! Personally, I also have and use some very fine live night club 3-4 person jazz recordings that I use to judge any component/room changes I make. Might I also add that Venue Height (such as you might hear live in an acoustic concert hall or church/cathedral setting), reproduced in your listening environment can add tremendous immersiveness, holographic spaciousness and realism to the reproduced sound, creating an on-going full Mind-Blowing 3D image...No Drugs Needed!!! Ted
I guess my signature says it all: “Music? We ain't got no music! We don't need no music! We don't have to show you any stinking music! We have equipment!”
