Spot on. It is really very interesting the obvious influence Dave's sixties material has had. The deeper I look the more I see. Interestingly it somewhat puts The Kinks, Ray and Dave is a similar category as the Velvet Underground, as artists/bands, that generally had more influence than commercial success (although of course The Kinks did have more commercial success than the Velvets)
I quite like ‘Do You Wish To Be A Man?’ Original if not fully developed lyric about the responsibilities of manhood, and a decent fistful of different melodic bits. The most notable section to me is that 4 chord instrumental sequence that comes just before the last refrain of the chorus, which adds a bit of unexpected ironic levity to what would otherwise be another tortured rumination from Dave’s dark nights of the soul: that tinny, sillier sounding section almost seems to add a kind big ‘well, are you, hmmmmm?’ question mark on the songs title. Also kind of reminds me of something else from somewhere but I can’t place it…..
Do You Wish To Be a Man?: I’m not enamored with this song. I keep thinking ‘Mac Davis’...except I have no idea why. And then I think, no, no, it’s....and I can’t recall who. Something I used to own. But if I can’t recall the name that isn’t exactly a good sign. It means it’s forgettable. Side note: I don’t hear Dylan in this at all. The song itself? It just floats by. To me, a soon-to-be-forgotten ditty. (Before anyone gets upset...remember (!) I championed Hold My Hand while it was mostly dismissed by The Thread! )
Do You Wish To Be A Man First time hearing this and it is pleasant to hear Dave adopt this folky style. If there is any Dylan to it it may be only the basic style or odd lyric as Dave's delivery is not at all like Dylan to me. I will say that the outlook is interesting and refreshingly mature for a young man!
Do You Wish To Be A Man Definitely a little Dylanesque in the lyrics... that sort of "look at yourself" theme that is both an attempt to be helpful guidance but is also a little preachy at the same time. Byrdsian as well, especially musically. Really a cross between The Byrds and Dylan with a dash of Peter, Paul and Mary thrown in for good measure. As has been said, a pleasant enough tune. That said, while I'm happy to hum along once or twice, but i don't think this will bear repeated listening for me over the long run. I kind of get an image of Mr. Van Driessen from Beavis and Butthead's futile attempt to musically raise his students' spiritual awareness on one of their field trips.
My first child was born in 1994, and about that time my career became pretty demanding as well. Put the two together, and I ended up losing touch with a lot of music starting in the mid 90s. That black hole for music appreciation lasted about a decade.
All Down The Line: "I will say that the outlook is interesting and refreshingly mature for a young man!" I think that we Avids have to remember that Dave was the youngest male in a family of six sisters that basically operated as a matriarchy from what I've read in various biographies. So I'm not totally surprised about "Do You Wish To Be A Man", which is itself a nice acoustic effort, devoid of overt Dylanisms.
This is the first of the songs that wasn't released at the time. But all this stuff was floating around on bootlegs and tapes. In the 1990's, I bought a cassette from a great Providence Rhode Island record store that had the Kinks' BBC sessions on one side, and much of the Dave album sessions on the other. It had this. The posting of this song sounds like it comes off one of the boots. Does it sound better than this on "Hidden Treasures" or the Arthur box? The song is OK. Nothing special. Feels like a genre exercise. That run of diminished chord inversions in the chorus is kind of hokey. If this wasn't Dave, but your college roommate playing his new song, you wouldn't pay it much mind, but might offer polite encouragement, and you'd be right to do so. Songs like this make me wish he'd padded the great tracks with more covers, or with more songs written by Ray (like Groovy Movies), or heck, more co-writes. I'd definitely take confusing/vague/weird lyric experiments like "Funny Face", which at least evoke dreaming and inspire debate, over pseudo-profound statements like these lyrics. But heck, the tracks that are great are really great, and there are still more to come.
"Do You Wish to Be a Man" This doesn't sound like a Kinks song. This certainly sounds like a Dave solo song. It's ok. I get real "Blowing in the Wind" vibes with the message this is trying to send. A real "How many roads must a man walk down before you call him a man?" kinda thing going on. Kinda odd that Dave was so young and the wild one, and he's singing these lyrics. The harmonies that come in are nice. Do we know who that is singing with him, or is he overdubbing that himself? The harmonica adds some nice color to it. I do like Dave's folkier/softer vocals, it provides a nice contrast to his crazier rockers. The chorus should be better, and have some more lyrical variety in it. Just off the cuff: "Do you wish to be a man? Any way you can? Do you wish to be the one to understand? Oh, do you wish to be a man? Better have a plan if you wish to be a man" A nice listen, but I won't be adding it to my Kinks playlist.
It took me a long time to appreciate this song in any way (mostly because, for years, I had an awful sounding recording of it). Anyway, it's kind of an interesting song. The melody is actually pretty nice. That harmonica (or whatever it is) in the background is sort of cool. Still one of Dave's lesser songs, in my opinion, and I don't really ever listen to it.
Something along these lines would improve the song greatly. Particularly following another track with essentially a one line chorus. To some degree these type of tracks may speak somewhat to the pressure, that grew into disinterest from Dave.... and instead of taking some time to flesh out his ideas, he kind of thought "well that'll do"..... They come across as good demos, rather than solid attempts to show his (obvious) value.... I can't blame him though, I love writing and recording (not that I do it anymore ) but having some suit trying to squeeze out material wouldn't work for me...... well unless it inspired me to write a bunch of acidic attacks on those types of people ..... yes, that's a very cathartic exercise that brings great relief and pleasure
I was watching McCartney 3, 2, 1 last night and Rick Rubin asked McCartney what were some of the most life changing performances he saw or revolutionary songs he heard. Something along those lines. Anyway, McCartney said Little Richard, and then he said The Kinks (for "You Really Got Me"). So yes, The Kinks clearly had huge influence that went beyond their commercial success, I agree.
From my 40 odd years of reading rock/pop books, mags & zines, I can pull up so many quotes from all sorts of musicians about being influenced or liking the Kinks, from people like Richard Hell & John Lydon (he was once asked how the Kinks influenced a Sex Pistols song and he replied which period Kinks), Jimi Hendrix complementing Dave Davies on "Waterloo Sunset", or Mick Avory meeting Otis Redding after seeing him & Otis telling him that he listened to them to the bios of 60s garage rockers & 70s punks/New Wavers, which 9 times out of ten list the Kinks as an influence.
Here's Mick Avory on Otis Redding (excerpt from Record Collector Issue 500, December 2019, "Mick Avory on Otis Blue") "I met Otis twice....Another time at the Bag O' Nails. I was with this girl that knew him. She introduced me to him. I said that "I'm a big fan of yours" He said "I like the Kinks as well" and I said, "Not as much as I like you" and he said, " Yes I do."
My first time hearing this. Like everybody else has already said, there are a handful of Bob Dylan tunes that this kind of sounds like, most notably, "One Of Us Must Know (Sooner Or Later") and "Is Your Love In Vein?" This is diatonic minimalism until he throws in that unexpected diminished chord at 2:09, which harkens back to his use of that gimmick in "Got My Feet On The Ground" four years earlier. This could've been written by just about anybody. Pleasant, but inessential. The meter, tempo and chord progression are all boilerplate early 70s adult contemporary:
I didn't know about the Otis Redding exchange. Very cool! Ray said that Hendrix used to be a stalwart defender of The Kinks when they were considered to be criminally uncool. Apparently, Jethro Tull's Too Old To Rock and Roll, Too Young to Die rock opera was based on The Kinks' mid-70s rock operas like Soap Opera. I can definitely see it/hear it. The Clash apparently covered "Dead End Street" at early gigs. Also, if I'm not wrong, Mick Jones and Topper Headon actually met at a Kinks concert. More recently, Queens of the Stone Age have covered two Kinks songs.
What's this? That album is awful after a great run. So Tull's decline was precipitated by the KINKS? That might be personally ironic or something.
I'm so glad somebody else hears that! I used to get into arguments with my brother about this. He denied he heard any similarities. I always thought the bass lines (and just beginnings in general) sounded super similar.
"Do You Wish To Be A Man" Another song that is new to me. This reminds me of the folk stylings of P.F. Sloan era Grass Roots. Dave's vocal kind of grates on me during a few parts of the chorus. Not a bad song, but it doesn't really sound like Dave or The Kinks. Maybe it could have been a hit in the hands of someone like The Grass Roots? This song could also grow on me as I have only played it a few times this morning.
What else is funny is that Ian Anderson had made some comment in an interview around 1969 or 1970 about how he didn't write songs "about little men in bowling hats like The Kinks do" or something along those lines. I always read that as a critical comment. Anyway, I guess he was okay writing silly, sort of self-absorbed songs about aging rock stars like Ray was doing in the mid-70s, probably based on what is arguably The Kinks' worst album (Soap Opera).
Not even close to their worst, in my opinion! Possibly, the most underrated. I guess we will see when we get there!
I also thought that it was ironic that the Jethro Tull album mentioned (Too Old for Rock and Roll) was one that many Jethro Tull fans have said that they skipped or never owned in another thread What albums do you skip in your collection of albums from artists you really like?
Today in Kinks history: In order to meet the end of August deadline set by their label, The Kinks begin recording their debut album today in 1964 at Pye Studios No.2. Laying down tracks including Beautiful Delilah and Cadillac.
