The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    Groovy Movies-- Standout track on GLKA for me. It's silly and fun. I find Dave's vocal to be exuberant. I love how he sings the fantasy of smoking a big Havana cigar... As if the end goal of all this is the status, and the end goal of the status is the cigar! It's ridiculous, and none the worse for it.
     
  2. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Groovy Movies

    First time hear tonight.
    A cool mid 60's soul backdrop can't disguise the slight lyric or the undistinguished vocal.
     
  3. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Runnemede, NJ
    The two albums I mentioned above, I believe are demos.
     
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  4. CheshireCat

    CheshireCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cheshire
    I recall there being two 'demo albums' - 'Fortis Green' and 'Fragile'. 'Purusha and the Spiritual Planet' is an ambient studio set, with only one vocal track, 'Soothe Sayer'. Then there are several live albums, the pick of which would be 'Bottom Line'. I was pleased to get hold of a copy of that one RSD recently.
     
  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Yea, that's what they're listed as.
    We'll get there :righton:
     
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  6. joejo

    joejo Well-Known Member

    Location:
    toronto
    Yes!!!
     
  7. skisdlimit

    skisdlimit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bellevue, WA
    Don't hate you at all, and am in fact very grateful for your contributions! :wave: I can barely begin to describe how many times on these forums I've put up similar posts that have elicited either total silence or even outright hostility, which makes me appreciate good discussions like this one all the more. :thumbsup:

    So, on to "Groovy Movies": I completely agree with the observation that this could have functioned well as a Sam & Dave soul rave up, or perhaps as one of Elvis Presley's Vegas era show stoppers. It does seem to have "that sound" to it, which was maybe not properly fleshed out on Dave Davies' recording, but is still enjoyable to me nonetheless.

    I, for one, am glad to have Hidden Treasures, but like a true Hoffman-ite am curious as to whether these songs might actually be presented a bit better elsewhere, if only in sequence as the SQ on that set is fairly decent to my ears, and will be trying out some of the proposed track listings posted above. Obviously, those nth generation boots clearly don't qualify, but I believe the majority of these songs have trickled out more legitimately over the years, most recently on various Kinks deluxe editions, which I haven't heard (I only own the Lola set from 2014, and that is quite groovy indeed!). :)
     
  8. James H.

    James H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Runnemede, NJ
    Yeah, I know. We still have another 40 years before we get to that point. I only mentioned those albums because maybe some fans don't know about those albums and you can only get them from Dave Davies website.
     
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  9. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    In song-by-song years that’s probably 2 1/2 years down the road!
     
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  10. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    “Groovy Movies” is a silly song but a lot of fun. It’s definitely a Ray-penned song. It’s probably the most Arthur-sounding of Dave’s “solo” stuff. I have long suspected it’s John Dalton on bass. Since it was recorded in May-June 1969, I’m now almost positive it is him (Quaife quit in April), and I’d imagine this was recorded during the Arthur sessions, proper (although I doubt it was intended for that album, considering the clashing themes). Point is, with different lyrics, this would fit on Arthur. It sort of reminds me of “Australia.”

    It’s a catchy, fun, lighthearted, well-performed song. I’m surprised it was not released as a b-side. It would have worked well as the b-side of “Drivin’” (as much as I love “Mindless Child of Motherhood, a pairing with “Groovy Movies” just seems more appropriate).
     
  11. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Me too.
     
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  12. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Forgot to note: if I recall, Ray did want to be a filmmaker, so “Groovy Movies” is probably actually his fantasy. (He wrote the song)
     
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  13. idleracer

    idleracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    :kilroy: I'm pretty sure that line is "I'll go down to get out of Tombstone." A fancy way of saying "Get out of Dodge," which actually makes more sense, seeing as Tombstone Arizona is right on the Mexican border. It's a reference to "Shootout At The O.K. Corral," a movie which has been remade nearly as many times as "A Christmas Carol" or "Little Women."

    :kilroy: Easily the least melodic tune on The Great Lost Kinks Album, but I can see how it would appeal to Wilson Pickett fans.
     
  14. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Groovy Movies

    First, I love the music for this one. It’s an ear worm, for sure. The band circa 68-69 were on such firm footing in the studio that without much effort or even whoever was playing bass, they were putting out solid stuff. I think in this era it was harder for them to record something that wasn’t good.

    But the lyric…? Well….

    I hate the word “groovy.” Among a list of the worst things the hippies gave the world I rank it somewhere between brown acid and children named “Moonbeam.” Yeah, I know, I’m coming across like grumpy old codger, but…hey, I was there in the 60’s so I’m entitled.

    My loathing of the word is abetted by the memory of Lee Fuller, a 5th-6th grade classmate who rode the bus with me. That was the year this kid discovered the word and appropriated it—ad nauseam—into every conceivable utterance. The guy had always been a hopeless dork but thought starting the new school year looking and talking like a hippie would make him cool. I can still picture him that first day with his parent-approved long hair and bellbottoms walking to the bus stop with his new-found swagger. “Hey, Marty…are you going to try out for basketball this year?” “I haven’t decided yet.” “Groovy!” One by one, he drove us all crazy.

    Thank God circa 2021 the word is out of fashion. Like earlier generational phrases such as “the cat’s meow” or “the bee’s knees,” “groovy” exists today as nostalgia, a quaint time-period stamp kept in awareness coming from the mouths of the Brady kids on a MeTV re-run or in re-hearings of Paul Simon’s bouncy “59th Ninth Street Bridge Song”—a song Simon has since admitted hating, presumably (and hopefully) because of its use of that embarrassing, out dated word.

    And speaking of songs, could there be lower hanging fruit for a lyricist than rhyming “groovy” with “movie?” It’s the Age of Aquarius’s equivalent of matching “moon” with “June.” It’s in several songs of the period and a listener can see it coming a mile away:

    (from “Do You Believe in Magic?”)

    “…it’s magic if the music is groovy
    It makes you feel happy like an old-time
    —”

    …wait for it….an ‘old time’ what? Square dance? Ice cream social? Quilting bee? The suspense it killing me…here it comes…it’s…it’s …

    “—movie

    Wow?!! What a curve ball! Didn’t see that one coming!

    It’s bad enough the Kinks recorded a song with “groovy” in the lyrics, but, worse they rhymed it with “movie,” then doubled down and—dammit—put it in the title. Most appalling of all, label credits authorship not to Dave, who as the lesser accomplished of the band’s two songsmiths I could forgive, but by Ray! Fresh off his Village Green masterwork, no less. Proof heroes indeed have feet of clay. I slump my head with this knowledge, and with a Shoeless Joe Jackson-like entreaty: “Say it ‘aint so, Ray.”

    And yet…I refer to a comment I made in this thread earlier on page 74 from May 7th:

    and also to this observation today from ajsmith

    Is this atypicality because “Groovy Movies” is, in fact, not a Ray song?

    Yeah…yeah…I know what the credits read everywhere. But allow me a 100% speculative, admittedly wishful thinking theory applied to a few loose puzzle pieces from this period of Kinks history.

    Let’s start with the band’s contractual obligation to deliver a quota of recordings to Reprise Records per a specified timetable. They dutifully meet this commitment with a batch of tapes submitted with little thought or care re: intent, sequencing, accurate information, etc, but with an implied understanding these are just being handed over per contract, not meant for release. Future tracks, such as those that comprise the eventual Arthur and Lola LPs, will satisfy those requirements.

    Of course, this is the back story to The Great Lost Kinks Album, which Reprise eventually releases without further input or clarification from the band. Because of the careless way these songs were submitted, several of Rays and at least one of Dave’s songs (“This Man He Weeps Tonight”) are released citing no authors. Others credit Ray alone, including mis-crediting to him at least one verifiable Dave song (“There is No Life Without Love.”) In short, the credits of authorship are a mess, and “Groovy Movies” is offered to the world ever more—without question—as a Ray Davies original.

    This thread has chronicled (sorry…kronicled) instances where printed labels on various pressings have misidentified Dave’s songs or co-songs as 100% Ray (“Wait Until the Summer Comes Along,” “Party Line”). Are we not allowed to question that the mistake-prone crediting on Great Lost Kinks Album could also apply to “Groovy Movies?”

    Think about it: The song was recorded for a Dave solo project. What would be the point of such an exercise if not to showcase Dave Davies, auteur of original material? Okay…yeah…I know what you are thinking: “but what about ‘Mr. Reporter?’” a verifiable Ray song also part of this project. Before you claim my theory falls here like a house of cards, let’s remind ourselves that there is no empirical evidence any one song or the other among the batch delivered to Reprise that wound up on GLKA or the Dave solo non-LP was intended for any specific project. Every thing that has been handed down to history without reference is assumption. Even Hinman admits as much. Whose to say “Mr. Reporter” was indeed intended for the Dave solo project? Could it have simply been an old song Ray had lost interest in, but under a tight recording schedule and lack of ready material, Dave re-recorded—and improved—the vocal for a possible Kinks b-side while Ray was busy with other projects? That it was a Dave vocal lumped in with all the other material deemed un-releasable does not automatically mean it was intended for the Dave solo LP.

    So while we have evidence of “Mr. Reporter” being a Ray song, that’s not the case with “Groovy Movies” other than taking the word of a record company with a history of screwing up proper credits on Kinks records. That being the case, it is possible, though not provable, that Ray had nothing at all to do with writing this song .

    Now while these are weak lyrics by Ray’s standards, I’ll acknowledge they are in a style not typical of Dave. In fact, they are closer to Ray’s style. Still, I want to believe they are Dave’s. So how do I explain that? Dave had on occasion in the past not been shy about writing lyrics in a somewhat Ray style. “Death of a Clown” and “Lincoln County” come to mind. Is Dave trying a Ray-like character study here, but done in the first person? Who knows? But if it helps make my theory work, I’m running with it!

    I know I’m stretching, folks, but throw me a bone: I really, really want to believe Ray did not write “Groovy Movies.” I think he is too good to write these lyrics. Pete Townsend once voiced the opinion Ray deserves recognition as the Poet Laurette of England. Not if he rhymed “movie” with “groovy” he doesn’t.

    I’ve mulled over this since 1983 when I acquired GLKA and, to my horror, read those dreaded printed words followed, in parenthesis, “by Ray Davies”. I’m also aware that the Arthur Box set—which I do not own—includes a booklet with the lads discussing the tracks. Maybe they clear things up there. I don’t know. But…whatever…we live in an age where folks are allowed to believe what they want about moon landings, the holocaust, and election results. So I’ll believe what I want about “Groovy Movies,” thank you very much. Never mind what every Kinks discographies says, I, Martyj, am a “Groovy Movies” Truther!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I couldn't argue for or against. With so many strange things in the handling of the Kinks songs, albums, credits etc..... I wouldn't even try to guess....

    All I will say is, Ray had just written some quite amazing and quite deep songs, for three albums, with additional singles, and leftovers...... it is possible with Ray's abstract sense of humour, that he just wanted to write a lightweight, lighthearted bit of nothing but fun....

    But like I say, I wouldn't want to have to make a call either way.
     
  16. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I always thought it was “I’ll take a long vacation to Saint-Tropez and think of all the money I’d make.”

    From Wikipedia:

    “Long popular with artists, the town attracted the international "jet set" in the 1960s, and remains known for its beaches and nightlife.”

    “After the war, it became an internationally known seaside resort, renowned principally because of the influx of artists of the French New Wave in cinema and the Yé-yémovement in music. It later became a resort for the European and American jet set and tourists.”
     
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  17. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Oh sorry, wrong line. Please disregard my previous comment.

    I have no clue what Dave actually sings during that part. It could be Tombstone.
     
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  18. markelis

    markelis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami Beach FL
    Having a ridiculously busy work life at the moment so I’m going to keep my last few comments on the Dave songs short into the point.

    Groovy movies: I like it a lot. As others have noted, almost certainly because Ray wrote it, this one sounds more like a Kinks song than many of Dave’s other solo songs.

    in summary, I really do like a lot of Dave’s songs but I like them the way they appear on the Kinks albums. One or two (occasionally three) per album is great. Having three or four brilliantly written songs with amazing lyrics by Ray, followed by a scorching rocker by Dave works well for me. As I’ve noted, I am a playlist maker. Often if there is a group that I like where there is somebody with some skills that is only allowed to make a small contribution occasionally, I will happily make a playlist by that person and mix in some of their songs from the albums as well. Keith Richards is an easy and obvious example of that. Keith alone in my opinion is not a patch on the Rolling Stones, but throwing on a playlist of just Keith songs (whether solo or within his band) is nice. I really do like Dave, but at least for my own listening pleasure I’m going to stick to mixing his songs in to my Kinks playlists. I do think a lot about the sequencing when I make my own playlists and I can tell you that I would probably be pretty careful to make sure his songs are appearing every third or fourth song at most. I could certainly create a good Dave playlist with 15 or 20 songs that I really like, but I doubt I would ever I would ever listen to it when I could easily just throw on a Kinks playlist and enjoy the few really good songs by him mixed into that playlist.

    With all that said, I’m excited to hear the 70s “decade” album and to listen to some of his releases in the 80s and beyond and I may walk away with a totally different attitude after that.
     
  19. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    "Groovy Movies"

    Dig that bass sound! Is this still Pete? A little light hearted fun. This sounds so much like Ronnie Lane's playing on a few later Small Faces instrumentals. With the horns and the bass it falls somewhere in-between "Collibosher" and "Wide Eyed Girl On The Wall". In fact, if there wasn't any singing on it, I would immediately think it was The Small Faces. Nothing wrong with the groovy groove on this song!

    Here are the similar sounding Small Faces instrumentals.

    "Wide Eyed Girl On The Wall"



    "Collibosher"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO3BaWi-d-Q

    On another note- RIP to the great Charlie Watts. Just played Between The Buttons. One of my favorite albums.
     
  20. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I think it is John Dalton on bass here. Mark’s write up says this song was recorded in May-June 1969, which would have been during the Arthur sessions. Pete left in April.
     
  21. palisantrancho

    palisantrancho Forum Resident

    Anyone know what type of bass John played in 1969? I'm pretty sure Ronnie mostly used Harmony H-27 in 1968.
     
  22. Scottsol

    Scottsol Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    Farm out man! Outta state.
     
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  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Terribly sad loss.
    Really excellent album in its UK or US format
     
  24. jethrotoe

    jethrotoe Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Probably a Fender P-bass. John Dalton Interview Part 1

    He's playing a P-bass in photos from 1969 and in the "Plastic Man" video from 1969.

    It's possible he played a different instrument in the studio though, but I haven't seen any evidence of this. Somebody else might know more though.
     
  25. idleracer

    idleracer Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    :kilroy: The word is actually a carry over from the beatnik era. This was on the B-side of "Sway" (November 1960):


    Bobby Rydell / Groovy Tonight
     

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