Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    [​IMG]
    This Symphonie Fantastique is something I liked very much. From the Barbirolli box. Originally on Pye records, 1958.
    The recorded sound is truly excellent.

    The Suppe Overtures disc from Pye in 1957 is also well done. The recording was one of last from Wilma Cozart and C. Robert Fine.
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Time for me to join the Barbirollifest. Just finished copying Mozart's 27th Piano Cto. performed by Robert Casadesus with the Phil.-Sym. of New York under Barbirolli while he was still plain "John," Columbia set MM 490 (MM indicating it was in automatic sequence), recorded I gather in 1940. In one of those curious twists that make record collecting a constant source of amusing surprise, Barbirolli also led Victor's competing recording of that concerto, that one with Artur Schnabel and the LSO, recorded in 1934--obviously, an imported recording from HMV, whereas Columbia's would have been a domestic product.

    At that time Casadesus was around age 40; Schnabel would have been a dozen years older when he made his recording, supposedly his first of a Mozart concerto. I'll need to go back and play it for comparison after I edit out the side breaks from the Casadesus. Meanwhile, I can say of the Casadesus that it's a nice, clean performance, certainly enjoyable, but on this hearing it didn't leap out at me as one for the ages. It's probably compromised by the recorded sound, which from my copy at least pulls off the neat trick of being both a trifle dull and a trifle harsh. I couldn't get consistently clean playback with any of my styli for the Shure V15Vx; it played much better (but not quite perfectly) in that regard with a 3.5 mil elliptical in a Pickering XV15/625e. I think I've mentioned before that I tend to prefer the Shure sound to the Stanton/Pickering sound, as the latter has a touch of hardness not present in the former; this recording brought that touch of hardness out quite clearly, but here "clean" trumped "pretty"--not that the sound, even when clean, was all that great with the Shure, either. In both cases it simply never opened out on top. I think Columbia went through something of a rough sonic patch around that time; I've had problems before milking what I'd call first rate sound from its 78s from that period.

    The concerto is spread across 7 sides of 4 records (1st mvt. ss. 1-3, 2d mvt. ss. 4-5, 3d mvt. ss. 6-7). A nice bonus was the pair of fillers on the final side: Mozart's Minuet in D, K. 355, and Gigue, K. 574. They are two of the off-the-beaten-track little solo piano pieces that Tchaikowsky set to make up his fourth orchestral suite, the one known as "Mozartiana." Casadesus tossed them off neatly and fluently, with the gigue going lickety-split at a much quicker tempo than I've heard in the Tchaikowsky orchestration, quite likely a tempo quicker than is possible in the orchestration. Probably everyone here already knows, but in case it's news to anyone, in his suite Tchaikowsky simply made pretty straight, but characteristically colorful, orchestral transcriptions of various mostly little, rather obscure Mozart piano solo pieces, like the minuet and the gigue. The exception--not to "pretty straight transcription" but to "little" and "rather obscure"--is the final mvt., which transcribes Mozart's Variations on "Unser Dummer Pobel Meint," an aria from an opera that was popular at the time (don't remember the composer off the top of my head). For those who have the big Lili Kraus box we discussed a few pages back, you'll find in it a lovely recording of that piece that she set down on wax before the War for Parlophone.
     
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  3. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe
    I have to say that they are excellent sound quality as well as musically.
     
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  4. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe
    What an amazing piece of work (to me anyway) and new to me. Thanks for posting. I will take the time to read the whole thing properly. However, on first glance he appears to have different tastes to me but that is not a bad thing.
    I am very much a layman. In the '80's I did try to come to understand music, how it is written, composed, played, the chords, etc etc but I have to admit to failing miserably. I even feel somewhat of a fraud posting here. Now music is something I either enjoy or not and at the end of the day it's me that has to listen to my choices. I have found that classical and jazz music are more rewarding listening than pop though I still indulge in that vast genre (just dug out and played all three records of CSN&Y's "Carry On"). I do enjoy reading other people's views and opinions and many on this thread nudge me into further exploration of work of which I have little or no knowledge. So recommendations and reviews always gratefully viewed.:righton:
     
  5. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe
    Unfortunately I don't have time to read it but I'd be interested if it explores his association (or not) with the Nazi regime.
     
  6. TonyACT

    TonyACT Boxed-in!

    It does, in great detail, well-documented.

    Quite complex, difficult to summarise, but he basically seemed to have had as little involvement as the millions of other Germans who joined the party for work reasons and the like.

    In fact, at the time he married a lady with some Jewish ancestry which caused him all sorts of problems - he did it knowingly and in spite of warnings that it would put him at odds with Nazi functionaries.

    I can only base my thoughts on limited knowledge, but it seems that some of the invective aimed at him over his Nazi past was done for other reasons. He was no saint on the issue, but neither does he seem to have been the sinner some would suggest
     
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  7. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe
    I just compared my vinyl version of Also Sprac
    Thanks. Much appreciated.
     
  8. Paul Dray

    Paul Dray Forum Resident

    Location:
    England, UK
    Anyone able to recommend any discs of the Trio: Richter, Kagan, Gutman? Any particular highlights?
     
  9. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe
    The only thing I can find as a trio on Qobuz is Schubert's trio for piano. violin and cello in A major D574. Let's face it, Richter and Schubert; it doesn't come much better. And, it sounds rather lovely to me though it's my first ever listen.
    There is also an album on Tidal; December Nights (Schubert, Schumann and Chopin) which appears to be a series of concerts in Moscow, December '85. NB the wall is still intact.
    As I love chamber music the both sound lovely to me.
     
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  10. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Absolutely! I am a huge admirer of Richter's Schubert. I started this thread eleven years ago. Due to inactivity it's now locked, unfortunately: Sviatoslav Richter plays Schubert's Piano Sonatas
     
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  11. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Well, not Schubert, but, intrusive audience noise notwithstanding, Richter set the standard for Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition in a late '50s recital recording from Sofia, Bulgaria, initially issued on a Columbia mono LP. If you don't know that one, by all means seek it out; to my ear, it's one example of a recording that fares better from its original LP issue than in the Philips CD reissue I've heard, but that's by no means a universal opinion. (And do note, I'm not one of those "LP is always better than digital" fanatics. I go case by case. My CD is long in the tooth; better ones may have come along since.)

    From Discogs, not my image, but this is the LP edition I have:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    That Harris Goldsmith quotation splashed across the album cover...oh, my. But speaking of a record company showing becoming modesty in flacking its wares, another of my listening exploits last night was a newly-acquired copy of the Grieg 3d Violin Sta. as performed by Fritz Kreisler and Sergei Rachmaninoff in Victor set 45, dating to not long after the introduction of electrical recording (which Victor called "Orthophonic," but it was actually the Western Electric system) in the mid-1920s. Here's what the notes booklet had to say about the recording:

    "In presenting this great work, by two of the most gifted artists of this or any other day, we are forced once more to the realization of the gifts which the Victor record alone, can bring us. There is a celebrated portrait of Kreisler, Rachmaninoff and [tenor John] McCormack which represents the artists making music, each in his own metier. It happens that they are intimate friends, and doubtless the portrait was not only taken from life, but pictures an incident that has happened more than once in the private lives of the artists. What would we give to be present, to hear such an ensemble of priceless talent?

    We can be present, in a very real sense, and witness a close musical approximation of this portrait, for McCormack has recorded for Victor several Rachmaninoff songs, with Kreisler playing the violin obbligato. And here, in the present work, we have another such rare combination of artistic forces--impossible, perhaps, even to the mighty ones of the earth in reality, but perfectly practical for anyone who cares to hear.

    The joint recording of Kreisler and Rachmaninoff offers a musical delight that the concert stage has never boasted. Nor does its importance, by any means, end with the appearance of these two great names. The new Orthophonic recording reveals their art in its unified and blended form, as it has never been revealed on records before. That two musicians, each so distinctly individual, can exquisitely weld their art into a single beautiful entity, is a most striking demonstration of their fidelity to the highest standards of musicianship. The Sonata is a monument to them, as well as a lasting delight to us."

    For what it's worth, I did enjoy the recording, and I do grant that it makes possible hearing two giants long gone, but, well, sheesh!
     
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  13. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Hi David,

    I have tried numerous times to "get" that work and each time I failed. It might be the fact that I studied it in college or it might simply be that repeating theme, which I really don't like. At any rate, while I know the Richter pictures is legendary, when I want to hear some Richter, I reach for his recordings of Bach, Debussy, Beethoven, Rachmaninoff, Schumann, Schubert, Brahms, Liszt, Shostakovich, Haydn and Grieg. One of the reasons he is my favorite pianist is because he could play so many composers works at such a high level.
     
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  14. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe
    I have a recording from the '20s (that's 1920s) of Holst conducting the Planets. Very listenable considering. So I think it's fascinating to hear how these old masters saw their compositions.
     
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  15. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    This historical recording conducted by Gustav Holst is available on Naxos Historical, which I can order from across the pond. My way of indirectly listening to 78 RPM recordings ...

    [​IMG]
     
  16. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    I don't know which one Mild Mavis has, but the Naxos reissue is of Holst's second recording. He recorded it earlier by the acoustic (horn-and-diaphragm) method. Pristine Classics has reissued the earlier one; a link: HOLST conduct Holst: The Planets (1922-23) - PASC131
     
  17. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Well, we all have our blind spots; no piece will appeal to every listener. I, for instance, am on record that if I never hear the prelude and liebestod from Tristan und Isolde again, it will be too soon. As to Pictures, I very much like Mussorgsky's masterpiece and rather don't Ravel's, although it isn't in the "run screaming from the room" category like the P&L from T&S.
     
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  18. TonyACT

    TonyACT Boxed-in!

    Any takers for the Stokowski orchestration?

    I have a 'Phase 4' CD of it that I quite like.

    But it works nicely for me in the piano version as well - I have an inexpensive Naxos with Jando which does the job.
     
  19. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe

    Mine's an EMI "HMV Treasury" recording HLM 7014. Apparently it's the second time Holst recorded the work, the first time being pre-electric. The sleeve notes really give an insight.
     
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  20. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Spinning this SACD.
    Bruckner Symphony 4/Wand BPO
    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I like all of the incarnations of Pictures. The piano original the most though.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Nipper

    Nipper His Master's Voice

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I recently got copies of the Stokowski and Ashkenazy orchestrations. It's hard to beat Ravel's version, which will celebrate its 100th anniversary next year. Ravel only omits the fifth Promenade. Stokowski omits "Tuileries" and "Limoges" in addition to the fifth Promenade. My Stokowski version is a Japanese import CD of a 1963 BBC Symphony Orchestra concert with Stokowski himself conducting. I believe that predates the "Phase 4" recording by several years.

    I suppose I like the Ashkenazy orchestration a bit better after just a few listens; it is closer to the Ravel. Stokowski's is a bit more eccentric. My Ashkenazy CD also has him performing it on piano and I am quite fond of that performance.

    My go-to recording of Pictures At An Exhibition is Fritz Reiner/CSO from 1960 on RCA Living Stereo SACD. I originally imprinted on Karajan's 1958 recording with the Philharmonia, which I got back in the 80s on an EMI budget CD.
     
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  23. Mild Mavis

    Mild Mavis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Europe

    Sounds like I need to give this a listen.

    Edit; I just checked Stokowski out on Qobuz. So prolific and I'm ashamed to say I don't think I've ever heard of him:shake:
     
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  24. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    His most famous turn probably was appearing in Walt Disney's Fantasia, but he was a fixture of the US musical scene beginning around World War I. He and the Philadelphia Orchestra were pretty much the crown jewels of Victor's stable of classical orchestral ensembles up to the point where Ormandy took over. He was anything but a "literal" interpreter, but many of his earlier recordings actually are quite a bit less eccentric than you might expect--for instance, he recorded all the Brahms syms. and a few of Beethoven's during the early electrical era, and all are perfectly straightforward, effective performances. In fact, he was the conductor in the first complete electrical symphony recording Victor released, Dvorak's "New World," issued as set M-1. He had actually done an earlier version issued as individual records, but I believe it had some "acoustic era" rescoring like tubas substituting for or reinforcing double basses not found in M-1.
     
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  25. TonyACT

    TonyACT Boxed-in!

    That's 'almost' like not having heard about Toscanini.

    Umm, I'm assuming you have :cool:
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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