The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Hi @mark winstanley, what’s the plan for track/album discussion in the upcoming days?

    I’ve just realised what an unusually dry spell the last half of 1969 and first half of 1970 were recording wise for The Kinks. Obviously most of this time as a group was spent on touring the US, but it seems really unusual for them that they barely seemed to record anything in this period. (Unless I’m forgetting something).
     
  2. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    Sure, it’s most definitely the Victoria voice. Which is quite fascinating. Ten days ago, I stumbled across a complete “who sings what” break down of Arthur’s songs online and thought I’d check it later but… I haven’t been able to locate it since then! I’m so angry about myself not to have bookmarked it. It would be such a great asset to understand the way the album is constructed… Anyway.

    Two interpretations, then: 1/ either Arthur’s son was actually singing Victoria in the first place, which would hold some logic since he’s the one “born in a country he loved”, lucky him, but ultimately deciding to leave for Australia. 2/ or Arthur’s son, despite leaving and being somewhat hostile to his father, can’t help but sound and speak like him, as sons often do, whether they like it or not.
    I like the second explanation a lot but I tend to go with the first, because I start to suspect that no song at all is supposed to be sung in the voice of Arthur himself. Some are sung to him, some about him, some are more contextual or express the feelings of the times or those around him (for instance, we know Young and Innocent Days is supposedly sung by Liz and Rose). Only the lighthearted Drivin' seems to be the exception but even this one is debatable, as the wife could be taking the wheel. Or if he indeed sings it, it shows how oblivious he is to the scrutiny he's under from all around him.

    In any case, today’s track certainly gives a lot of weight to the idea that the whole LP is supposed to work as a composite external portrait of the title guy, symbolizing the middle-class British gentleman, in his early sixties as 1970 is around the corner. My guess is he's the focus of the album, not its protagonist, and his image ultimately appears with clarity, empathy and humor in the conclusive song, now that the puzzle is complete.
     
  3. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    "Don't You Know It!"
     
  4. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Yes they did, Avid Zeki. Stan Corwyn & his merry band sure did a lot for them. I wonder how the Kinks' career would have been if they stayed on WB/Reprise here in the States & also signed w/them worldwide instead of going w/RCA. WB Records were on the verge of being the dominant record label of the 70s. Perhaps they could have done a better job in sellings albums like Muswell Hillbillies & the later concept albums than RCA. The Kinks will luck out w/record labels a few years later when they hook up w/Clive Davis.

    Anyway, back to Arthur and the song that closes it, also named "Arthur". I hate to be a broken record about this, but my fellow Avids have done a splendid job pointing out the various virtues of this song. It is a rather appropriate way to end the album & you can almost see the end credits rolling as the song plays on.

    As for Arthur the album, I would rank it just a shade below VGPS in the ranking of Kinks albums. VGPS has a certain romanticism to me that Arthur lacked. I do think that Arthur was the most successful stab of a concept album that flourished in the late 60s early 70s because you can listen to the songs individually. It's a more discliplined album, probably because of its TV movie origins. Maybe Ray should have used Arthur as a template when he made Perservation, but that's down the road.

    Finally, I like to recommend the article on Arthur that appeared in the November 2019 issue of Record Collector magazine. It has interviews w/both Ray & Dave & has some interesting insights.
     
  5. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    Arthur is such a fantastic closer for the album, a huge release after a ride of high tension, energy, undulating currents, and incredible songwriting. This track, capped off with an absolutely classic Dave riff, is just a blast, and I couldn't think of a better cap to the last 45 mins. The analysis that the album is simply about Arthur, and never from his POV, makes this summary of him even stronger here, and we see a number of call backs through the rest of the LP.

    If you're not singing along to the 'don't cha know it' call and response by the end, music just isn't for you.

    I will say that unlike some, this thread hasn't made me love Arthur any more, as I already held it in incredibly high regard, but it has made me understand the songs that bit more. I've read the liner notes on the back of the sleeve many times, but somehow never decided to picture these characters in the songs themselves. This really does pull the concept together, and helps understand why half the album is historical references, while the rest... isn't.

    In short, this is, in my eyes, truly one of the greatest LPs of all time, and another piece in the puzzle that tells me that The Kinks are probably my #1, overtaking The Beach Boys and The Beatles for the label - though to be honest, I find such labels taxing.
     
  6. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    Arthur....

    .... is a really groovy closer, don't ya know it?
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I reckon it is extremely rare for concept albums on general to hold the story completely together, and be top quality songs..... there are a few, but most meander or have lulls.... and I am a big fan of the concept album
     
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  8. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Another thing that I would like to address since we are finishing up w/Arthur is how do you think, my fellow Avids, it compares w/Tommy, which gobbled up the "rock opera" adoration at the time & since. I've only really listened to Tommy the past few years & I've seen the movie. I think I finally got the concept behind it. It's much more sprawling than Arthur at 2 records & the concept behind is more universal than Arthur's. I think that the years of touring the States & producing an album that seemingly was in tune w/the hippy ethos of the time paid off for the Who while the Kinks were just getting started on the long slogs through the States.

    Another thing that's interesting is that Arthur's only revival was a BBC Radio play. It's too bad that it hasn't been an East End/Broadway musical like the Who's work, although the fact that the main character never has any songs may be a handicap.
     
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I love the Who, but Tommy isn't a favourite album for me.
    It could be that I saw the movie before I heard the album, and I thought the movie was awful.... so perhaps I'm glad Arthur didn't get made.
    I have grown to enjoy Tommy, and the 5.1 helped with that, plus the Who thread also.

    I think Tommy did so much better, because the main character grabbed people's imaginations. Tommy is an extremely strong character and Pete presented that character in a way that really highlighted him.
    With Arthur, the main character is only a piece in the story, rather than a solid focus.
    In its execution Arthur is probably a more complex story as well.
    Tommy stays fairly focused on its main character, while Arthur covers a lot of stuff, and as @Zeki said, could well be used in a history class...
    One thing I have learned over the years, is the general public lean towards less complex music and themes.
    Also, obviously, The Who got great exposure at US festivals playing most of Tommy live to a massive amount of people. The Kinks had missed four years of touring, and all their momentum had been taken away. They played smaller gigs, and needed to get back in the Swing of it.
    It also doesn't hurt Tommy that it had some songs that radio latched onto. Victoria was about it for Arthur, and certainly not as frequently played, in my day at least, as Pinball Wizard, and the big finale track.
     
  10. FJFP

    FJFP Host for the 'Mixology' Mix Differences Podcast

    I know it's not strictly music, but is this where Long Distance Piano Player comes in? I think that would be a fun discussion day.
     
  11. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    I’m a Tommy guy from the time of release so I don’t think it will be fair to compare.
     
  12. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    I don't go back to Tommy (or the Who) a whole lot. I can't really say why. It used to be a big passion of mine. I haven't stopped liking (even loving) it/them but it has mysteriously stopped being an integral part of my life, whereas the Kinks (like the Beatles and the Beach Boys, that's my trinity, I'm with @FJFP on this) remain a constant presence. There's genius in Tommy, of course. "So You think 21 is gonna be a good year" sings in my mind right now and it's as beautiful as ever, as are little snippets like There's a Doctor, one of my favorite "mini songs" ever. But overall, I think Arthur is much more sophisticated as far as the writing goes. The biggest discovery for me in the last two weeks is how, never mind the concept, all Arthur's songs are still made to work as stand-alone pieces, as @DISKOJOE aptly remarked. It's clear Ray made a point of achieving this. They all have a theme, a subject, a point to bring across outside of their opera context.

    Tommy's biggest strength lacking in Arthur lies in the dynamics between the two key figures of the band : in Townshend they had a writer/puppet master who pulled the strings ; and in Daltrey, they had a star that could give life to the character and reinvent himself as a rock god in the same movement. Tommy was that curly-haired /fringe-vested superstar incarnation whereas Ray's always presented himself more as ring leader than iconic star, and Arthur is not really a character, more an abstract sociological object of study.
     
  13. Scottsol

    Scottsol Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    In Victoria we hear “Let the sun never set”. In Arthur the sun does finally set, heralding the end of the story and the British Empire.

    At the same time the Empire was falling the USA was ascending to economic domination , so it is fitting that Arthur’s final scene (heading into the setting sun) is an iconic ending for that most American of film genres, the Western. Is it a coincidence, then, that the song relies heavily on those very American musical styles country, bluegrass, and gospel?
     
  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The way the next week will play out is going to be a little odd, but I am not sure there is any other way I can do it really...

    As we have
    Arthur's Journey
    Home Demos Medley
    My Big Sister
    Stevenage
    Space
    Arthur (doo wop version)
    all unavailable, it sort of messes the plan I had in my head up....

    Next Friday I will be on vacation for a week, and I was going to leave you guys with a chance to wrap up the sixties, in terms of closing thoughts, favourite stuff, things you would change and all that kind of thing, I think also, that if we could have closed off as being the end of the sixties, it would give a solid point to end and everybody gets a week to regroup their thoughts, catch up, and all that kind of thing before we hit the seventies ....but these tracks all being unavailable, kind of throws a spanner in the works.... so I guess what we do is

    Saturday - Arthur and The Immigrants - The Future ... and if I can find info about where these songs fit in, I'll do a short breakdown.
    Then also tomorrow, I guess we put the Pye 1970 release The Kinks up for weekend discussion. A double LP, that works somewhat as a best of/anthology up to this point.

    Then with nowhere else to go, I guess

    Monday - Lola Vs Powerman and the Moneygoround Pt1
    Tuesday - Contenders
    Wednesday - Strangers
    Thursday - Denmark Street
    Friday - Get Back In Line

    at that point I will be gone between sept 18 and sept 25

    So Monday Sept 27 - Lola
    etc etc

    I'm not really sure how else to roll it out.

    I guess the week I'm away guys can still play catch up and do a 60's review or whatever....
     
  15. Scottsol

    Scottsol Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    Dare to be great. Do both!
     
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  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I'd never heard of that before.
    It technically came out before Lola, and Got To Be Free rolls over the closing credits.
    Apparently the movie is on youtube in ten installations....
    Perhaps someone can run us through that while I'm away?
     
  17. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I think to be totally anal about it that’s from around the Lola album recording timeframe rather than between Arthur and the Lola single. I agree it would be a good discussion though! As mark mentioned, it’s on YouTube split in 10 parts, although part 1 is missing unfortunately.
     
  18. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Headmaster Winstanley, how about putting The Kink Kronikles in the same discussion as that 1970 UK compilation? It seems that half of us Avids know the former & the other half the latter.
     
  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I guess we could.
    Technically Kronicles came out in 1972, but they serve the same purpose.

    My main thoughts at the moment are how to set up the week off, unless everyone is happy to just have a week off to catch their breath ? Idk
     
  20. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Just a suggestion, but if you’re off the week after next, why not hold off on the 70s until you’re back from your hols? Seems neater that way.The next 2 weeks could be spent on catch up/60s summing up. We could fit in the Long Distance Piano Player watch along in that gap too. I’d be up for guest hosting that if it suited.

    by the by, I don’t want to futz things up or die on this hill, but as The Future is a new 2019 Ray Davies solo song and recording, I’d prob rather not discuss it at this point. I won’t grouse if you’d rather do it at this juncture though, it’s just a personal slant.

    Another contemporary track that we could deal with in this timeframe is ‘The Ballad Of The Virgin Soldiers’ which Ray wrote for the film of the same name in 1968/9 and is included on the Arthur box. Since it was only recorded by non-Kinks artists, I was wondering if @idleracer would want to take the lead on that one as they intro’d the earlier Ray giveaways?
     
  21. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    I’ll listen to Tommy! :D
     
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  22. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Ok then. @ajsmith is rolling out some sense again for us.

    How about this then folks

    Saturday - a run down of the Virgin Soldiers movie. With some clips

    Monday - March of the Virgin Soldiers
    Tuesday - Ballad of the Virgin Soldiers
    Wednesday and Thursday - summarizing the sixties. Any and all thoughts regarding the Kinks sixties output.

    Friday - The Kinks double album Pye release .... I won't link it with Kronicles because there are too many tracks we haven't looked at yet.

    Then from 18th sept up to 25th sept, @ajsmith can run us through The Long Distance Piano Player, however he sees fit.

    Then Monday sept 27th we can start Lola.

    How does that sound to everyone?
     
  24. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    Arthur

    Just an incredible finale to an incredible album. What is a bit interesting is that this is the ONLY song that actually names a character in the play, right? The album mentions historical figures, but not the characters who are experiencing the actual songs themselves. As we heard from 1967 and 1968, Ray started giving all his character studies names. Sybilla, Priscilla, Suzie, Johnny, Fat Old Uncle Charlie, Walter, Johnny (again), Daisy, Monica, Annabella, Maria, and I am sure I missing several. But here, in an actual play with characters, there are no names in the songs but Arthur himself. Eddie died in the war, but he's just "some mother's son", like the many thousands of others who died. Perhaps that is also another theme of the album, that we are such little things in this world.

    That intro guitar riff is great, and I just love how you can sing along to the verse melody to that opening riff. You can pretty much sing these words the opening riff:

    "Arthur was born just a plain simple man
    In a plain simple working class position
    Though the world was hard and it's ways were set
    He was young and he had so much ambition"

    In that aspect, it is very similar to how the riff works in Waterloo Sunset. And if you go back even further, its how the riff works in "All Day and All of the Night". You can sing the opening verse on top of the opening riff. I love this trick because the first time you hear the song, its just a riff. But after knowing the song, you sort of sing the riff. It's great, and I love it.

    Back to Arthur, after that opening, Dave's guitar takes a bit of a backseat to the verse itself, but still comes in and out to lead some of those transitions between the lines. Dave's work on this is fantastic on the various styles/tones he gets out of that guitar. A few things that stand out:
    3:03 - That little acoustic lick is such a great touch.
    3:20 - I love the looseness of the band as they repeat "Don'tcha know it" . Some of it certainly seems ad libbed. S
    3:29 - almost a slide-guitar sound on this particular lick

    The verses show sympathy and empathy towards Arthur. When he was young (and innocent), he had so much ambition. But the world was hard, and life is hard. "If only life were easy"... even then, "he tried and tried for a better life". But in the end, Arthur, your ambition was righteous, and the world was wrong. I hope you know it.

    The outro with the handclaps is just a perfect way to wrap this up. All the voices coming together to profess their love for Arthur. You are loved, and we are here to help you. That is a message we should be sharing to others more often, and we all need to receive from others as well.
     
  25. skisdlimit

    skisdlimit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bellevue, WA
    Sure, but I warn ya if I do post my thoughts on the albums/songs I missed you might not want to come back, or even be able to given this would likely scare everyone off! :winkgrin:
     

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