James Bond 25 - Speculation and Anticipation Thread*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, May 19, 2016.

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  1. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Aloha, OR
    it's ok to enjoy and love these films while acknowledging how far we've come since the late 50s. because yeah, these old bond films are filled with pretty offensive stuff, even by 80s/90s standards.
     
  2. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    I can't remember any offensive stuff to me.
     
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  3. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Yeah, baby, YEAH!

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    To be fair, that line comes straight from the original Casino Royale book after Vespers suicide there.
     
  5. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    All fair points, particularly the discrepancies in time, which could have been easily solved if the body of the movie beyond the opening scene took place 6 months to a year later in the timeline. On first viewing years ago that didn't strike me but it did in recent years.
     
  6. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Precisely. There is a lot of questionable stuff in older films. Doesn't mean you have to "cancel " them and pretend they never existed nor does it mean you can't still enjoy them. However to pretend societal norms from 4 to 5 decades ago aren't different compared to today and that media of today shouldn't acknowledge that and demand that the Bond films shouldn't evolve for the sake of purity is basically asking for the Bond series to become completely irrelevant. It's not about being "woke" or catering to those "damned sjws"...is about accepting reality. Times change.

    So far I think the Craig Bond films have overall balanced keeping the core of the character and the formula while acknowledging the passage of time and what is or not acceptable. Each era of Bond has done a decent job of changing with the times. That's part of the reason why we are on 25 moves over 50 years and why this series has continued while other franchises and characters have come and gone.
     
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  7. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    100% woke!
     
  8. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Whatever. The character has always evolved. If he had stayed exactly as he was in Goldfinger and DR. NO, I doubt we would be on film 25 in 2021. The series would have long faded away into obscurity. The character and franchise has evolved and will continue to evolve and will probably outlive most of us here.

    The core has remained the same for the most part. I honestly don't see what is so "woke" about the current films.
     
  9. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    I get your point here about timeline but the ending of Casino Royale when Bond confronts Mr. White could have happened quite some time after the events of the main movie storyline? That would allow some time for the above to occur and some of the other points you raise in terms of the condensed timeline. Also Bond had been laid up for an unspecified length of time recovering from having his balls thrashed with a knotted rope, so movie time might be different to ‘real time’.
     
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  10. wondergrape

    wondergrape Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    Is this a joke?
     
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  11. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The problem people have with the scene seems to be a lack of a sense of humor. It's clearly a comedic scene...a form of aggressive courtship among well-trained spies. It doesn't represent anything realistic that would happen. Wouldn't throwing each other across a room onto the floor already be an assault in real life, before anything sexual is involved? Movies are not judged based on real life standards. This is all exaggerated for comedic effect. He forces a kiss on her, but after that, it's clearly implied she had been seduced and was willing for whatever happened next.
     
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  12. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Location:
    Aloha, OR
    what
     
  13. Doctor Worm

    Doctor Worm Romans 6:23

    Location:
    Missouri
    No. Compare that to a scene from something like The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. There are plenty of full-on rape scenes in film; I typically don't hear Goldfinger listed among them.. I'm not saying what he did was appropriate but it's pretty tame when compared with what we have today. Like I mentioned earlier, Bond isn't a saint, but I've never heard any Bond fans outside this forum being offended by it.

    Fear not, though. Soon we'll have the emasculated Bond who will kindly ask women "May I be allowed to gaze at you without lustful intent" and you can be happy.
     
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  14. Phil12

    Phil12 Radiant Radish

    None whatsoever. Craig is IMO the worst Bond ever.
     
  15. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA!

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
    I like him just fine.
     
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  16. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    AMC is bringing back the three earlier Daniel Craig Bonds in the weeks leading up to No Time To Die. We saw Casino Royale yesterday. Well worth seeing it on a huge screen. Only 3 other people in the theater, so we felt quite safe.
     
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  17. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    My biggest problem with that part is that in "Skyfall" MI6 sends helicopters to another continent to take Silva for M to be interrogated in a safe environment.

    Picking an injured Mr. White would've been much easier with no need for Bond to go from Lake Garda to Siena. What is the standard MI6 procedure? Interrogation at the MI6 headquarters or all around the world?

    I feel much of this stuff was made to give more screentime to Dench. Mr. White's escape would've been more complicated at the MI6 headquarters but hey, I get that the film has to proceed someway :)

    Furthermore, at the beginning of "Quantum" we see Bond is dressed differently compared to the end of Casino. What did he do? Shot Mr. White, put him in a trunk and Bond changed his outfit? But this at least is a continuity error and not really a plot hole.

    And, during the chase the pursuers are likely Mr White's henchmen (who else could it be) that just shoot everywhere. I thought this was just dumb because they could've killed not just Bond, but Mr. White too.



    That's actually a good explanation even if Leiter has known Bond for too little. Do real agents act like that? We should ask one to join the forum!


    That was also a bit stupid for Bond (although not as stupid as the final act in Skyfall, fighting Silva and his guys alone in an old mansion with just the help of two 70 y.o. people).

    He could've listened more and made more photographs. But the fact that he was able not also to listen, but to take pics also show how the guys at "The organization" made a silly choice choosing the Opera for the meeting. Inside a secret location, not much risk. This only gets a pass for dramatic purposes imho.

    I also liked the direction and the staging of that scene. My general criticism of the latest installments is mainly the "work" of Purvis and Wade. Hopefully they haven't repeated the same mistakes on "No time to die"
     
  18. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Ben Whishaw says Luke Evans or Jonathan Bailey playing James Bond would be 'thrilling'

    Luke Evans would also be putting a Welshman into the role for the first time since Timothy Dalton, so that's something.
     
  19. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    Small recap: the events leading to the poker tournament at Casino Royale start happening in 6 July 2006 with Bond at the Bahamas. Enters the security room and watches a security camera archive disc dated "6 july 2006". On a side note: early BD players, even premium ones, took some time to inizialize and read a disc, so it's not like what we see in CR, a disc starting in one second. But CR looked like a continuous Sony ad.

    There are more discs in the drawer before and after the one he'll play, so it may be 10 july 2006, who knows. By the way, Bond gambles vs Dimitrios and win a DB5 with a Bahamas licence plate, possibly the same day.

    We then find Bond in Miami (one hour flight from Nassau, so ok) following Dimitrios

    Bond contacts the MI6 while chasing Carlos the terrorists. Calls the MI6 and while seeing an article regarding the Starfleet unveiled, the MI6 monitor shows "largest airplane in the world unveiled today" and MIA stock price of the day.. 28 june. Ooops :D. Continuity error.

    Close ups of Carlos' mobile (Sony of course) shows a 9 july 2006 date, we see it when he sends the message to activate the bomb that Bond attached to his pants, saving the Starfleet.

    Bonds then is sent to Montenegro to the Casino Royale; let's consider that when he comes back from Miami and meets M in Nassau and sees Solange's dead body, he has blood and scars on his face. On the train with Vesper, he looks totally recovered. How long for that kind of scars to heal? The poker tournament seems to last two days, then he is trapped and tortured...

    ...when he awakes at the clinic by the lake he finds Mathis telling him that's been there for weeks. We then see Mathis arrested by two colleagues of Bond. Next; a recovered Bond and Vesper meet Herr Mendel at the clinic; the winnings have to be transferred and after that it seems the two quickly go to Venice.

    On 4 august 2006 (as reported by mobile phones) Vesper exits the hotel, Bond receives a call from M from her office in London telling him they'll talk about his resign message, and that an officer from the Treasury is there because the winnings of the tournament haven't been deposited yet.

    Bond calls Mendel (007 thought the funds were transferred to the Treasury when he and Vesper met Mendel) and he's told the winnings are being transferred from the Credit Suisse - Venice branch while Bond and Mendel on the phone, that very moment.

    Bond realizes what happened, follows Vesper; he sees she's holding a metal staircase with the money. Fast forward, she dies and Mr. White is seen disappearing with the suitcase in his hands. While on the phone with M revealing Bond about Vesper's fiancee, 007 sees the message Vesper sent him with Mr. White's number. How many days did it take for Bond to find Mr. White, and the money the Treasury claimed? That all seems to happen quickly. and Mr. White could have escaped abroad making for Bond difficult to find him. So, my guess he should have found it in a few days, if not the same day he found Vesper's message. But for reasons I'll explain later, Bond finds him in about 10 days.

    So, from 6 july to 4 august 2006: not even a month.
    9 july 2006 Bonds stops the terrorist.
    Trip to Nassau and then Montenegro; let's act fast: three days. 12 july (but as I said before, it's unlikely the wounds healed so fast)
    Two days tournament: 14 july; that night Bond is imprisoned while trying to rescue Vesper, and tortured.
    Let's make it that that very night is rescued and taken to hospital. At least two weeks to heal after Le Chiffre "played" with his balls.
    28-29 july Mathis is arrested; Bond and Vesper go the Venice and on 4 August 2006 Vesper dies
    Bond finds Mr. White on 16 august 2006 (final scene of CR). Why 16 august? Because in "Quantum" (starts when "Casino" ends) we see the Palio of Siena, it takes place on 2 july and 16 august of every year, so no doubt that it's 16 august 2006.
    Lake Garda to Siena is roughly a 4 hour drive, so reasonable.


    I haven't seen "Quantum of solace" in some time, but I'll laugh if close ups of mobiles, monitors or TVs reveal that the year is 2008, because the "Quantum" events should take place in August 2006.

    Sorry for the long nitpicking, I would love for big budget productions to get at least their timelines correct. Or believable. One of my pet peeves is the portrayal of Castles and general older buildings in films taking places centuries ago...they're always "ancient". "The Devils" by Ken Russell is one of the few that shows newly build castles, as it should be.

    Back to Casino Royale, plot discrepancies aside and the fact that imho Craig has the wrong look, no denying that it's impeccably directed and has its moments. Not keen on the too romantic stuff, but the final "Sinking palace" scene in Venice is fantastic. Eva Green's performance when Vesper's dying underwater in the elevator is emotionally outstanding, rarely if ever we've seen something like that in a Bond film.

    And technically it's amazing how they integrated the miniature built in Pinewood with the real Venice to make it look like a real palace was sinking in the grand canal. That 2006 sequence puts to shame most recent CGI stuff. While watching the scene at the theater I thought that it was sick and how were they able to do that, it really was like watching that palace collapse in Venice, and the sound was phenomenal. Well done 007 crew.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  20. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Nice recap of the timeline. It was certainly not straightforward, with moments being spotlighted to be of huge importance while weeks seem to go by as Bond recovered in the Balkans without giving the weight or visibility to the time that passed.

    Of course can't speak to agency protocol, but it seems that being on an island near Hong Kong where Bond is in some danger requires MI6 intervention to extract the bad guy--of course Silva, being aware of MI6 protocol, also built this into his plans--whereas the earlier action in continental Western Europe, handicapping and extracting White, Bond decides he can get to a secure location without help. Then they send in M for the interrogation. It makes sense to me.

    I think he had the same navy pinstriped 3-piece suit on--no change in outfit...unless I'm missing something?

    At the time, I agree it made little sense, as indeed the assassination of Le Chiffre. But once it becomes clear that White is just a pawn for Spectre and Blofeld, it makes sense that the organization is ok with losing White.

    Haha, well, in Fleming's books there was certainly a very amicable relationship between Felix and James. This seems like a plausible way for it to start. Felix knows his superior is not acting in Britain's or America's interests, and so he is willing to go out a little further on the limb to give James a few seconds and warns that CIA is targeting him.

    Yeah, I often wonder what prompted that story line to evolve into blowing up an old mansion in the moors. I suspect someone wealthy and connected to the producers somehow was faced with an estate that wasn't going to fetch a good offer, and saw a way to make more money by having a big Hollywood production blow it up. Of course the lack of agency support for Bond there is the result of Bond being unable to rely on communications, as Silva had infiltrated MI6's networks.

    But the only reason he knew who to photograph was after he announced to them all that they had been compromised. He then picked them out from the crowd one by one as they got up to leave, as the rest of the crowd remained seated to watch the opera.

    I'm very optimistic about NTtD. Hope it's the best one yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  21. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Friend of mine tweeted this and I thought it was a pretty interesting idea:

    For the next 10 years, stop the movies and create a series that shifts the focus to Q-branch.

    Show the adventures of the other guys... The techs & nerds who build the gear, broker the deals and hack all the things.

    In 10 yrs, we'll be ready for the next Bond.​
     
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  22. tommy-thewho

    tommy-thewho Senior Member

    Location:
    detroit, mi
    Pre-purchased my ticket for Oct. 8 in Cinemark XD.
     
  23. raphph

    raphph Taking a trip on an ocean liner…

    Location:
    London
    Just seen it at the first midnight screening here in London.
    It’s enjoyable. 7/10.

    Although overlong. The last hour is spectacularly unmemorable. Malek isn’t a particularly interesting villain and the sound design and score are too loud. Zimmer has his fans (not me) and he’s no John Barry. Also, fair enough no time for misogyny and rape etc for the modern times but the new film is not remotely sexy.
    But I enjoyed more than all the other Craigs bar Casino Royale.
     
  24. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    No, it's different.

    The Quantum of Solace Striped Suit – Bond Suits

     
  25. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Ok, at least they used a navy pinstripe suit and tie with blue and black squares--so not too drastically different. I liked the stylistic elements of QoS a bit better than CR. Those sunglasses Craig wore for QoS were my favorite. Once you start pulling at the loose threads (pardon the pun) all these films rapidly fall apart on almost every level.
     
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