Denafrips Dacs

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bever70, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. HescoWendrik

    HescoWendrik Active Member

    Location:
    Philippines
    Hi everyone, I'm new here and currently have an Ares II on the way. I currently use a Bluesound Node 2i but plan on upgrading to a separate streamer transport. I compared the Bluesound to my Rega CD player and the Rega sounds so much better to my ears. This is why I ordered the Ares II, I realized I wanted I more easy listening sound even if it is not the most accurate. What streamers do you guys use? I was looking at the SOTM SMS200 neo and the Sonore Ultrarendu. Are these a good match with the Ares II?
     
    bever70 likes this.
  2. Double E

    Double E Time is piling up, we struggle and we scrape

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    My Pontus II arrived today and has exceed my expectations. Purchased without a listen (which I’ve never done before) so it was nervous wait as I loved the sound of my existing analogue digital rig (I mainly listen to & prefer vinyl) and was worried the sound would be to revealing/digital and fatiguing. I went with & trusted review recommendations and the DAC tech of Denafrips.

    Loving the sound and I’m currently writing this stuck on my headphones (after playing through speakers all day) playing familiar playlists and it sounds too good to stop!

    Seems to have improved through the day and with some setting tweaks in Roon.

    Makes me wonder how much marginal difference adding in the Hermes and HDMI connection would bring. Tempting next step!
     
  3. RockAddict

    RockAddict Sanity is an illusion, just like democracy

    Location:
    UK
    Before ditching the Node 2i, it may be worth waiting to hear how it sounds using the Ares II DAC. Used as a streamer with an external DAC, the Node 2i may well turn out to work rather well. I have a Node 2i, using a Pontus II as the DAC, and have pretty much concluded it would take something at least double the price to match it, let alone beat it. That said, one streamer (transport - i.e. no onboard DAC) oft mentioned on the forums is the-

    Ifi Zen Stream: ZEN Stream by iFi audio - The high-performance, flexible and affordable Streamer from iFi audio

    It's cheaper than the Node 2i and some prefer the SQ of the Zen Stream so, to THEM, it's "better". Whether it would be "better" in your system is impossible to say.


    Moving to a much higher budget level, another streamer (transport) that someone recently mentioned is

    Metronome DSS Network Player & Streamer: https://www.metronome.audio/digital-sharing-dss-network-player-streamer/?lang=en


    There are dozens of realistic contenders for streamers and the above two are mentioned simply to show two examples at different budget points rather than be firm recommendations. For now, I'm sticking with the Node 2i because the connectivity and functionality of the give me most of what I want/need. Also, the option of onboard radio ("TuneIn", using the BluOS app) is a "must have" - for me.
     
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  4. HescoWendrik

    HescoWendrik Active Member

    Location:
    Philippines
    RockAddict- Thank you for the suggestions. A friend has suggested the Zen stream and the good thing is it is being sold for around 400 USD by a local dealer. I like BlueOS a lot, specially after I moved from a Raspberry Pi with Hifiberry which always had software issues (free Volumio) for me. I will try the Bluesound first with the Ares II before deciding if I need a different streamer.
     
    RockAddict likes this.
  5. Shuggie

    Shuggie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I added a Gaia to my Venus II, with HDMI I2S connection between them, and the improvement in all aspects of sound and musical reproduction is not subtle! The spatial and tonal resolution of this pair is astounding, and every listening session is a delight - even what I considered 'poor' CD recordings are rendered surprisingly well. On its own, the Venus II is truly excellent, but the Gaia DDC lifts it considerably - I'd imagine the Hermes would do the same, although I'd hope the Gaia is more effective, given that I bought one and it is not exactly a 'budget buy'.
     
    Double E likes this.
  6. oktapod

    oktapod Forum Resident

    Out of curiosity, has anyone evaluated the differences between Gaia and lesser digital source versus a more expensive (and presumably better) digital source without?

    In particular I wonder if:

    Cambridge CXC:Gaia:Venus II

    …would be a better option than (say)…

    Jay’s CD2T mk3:Venus II

    The Gaia option would be cheaper, and would also benefit my Node 2i…..
     
    bever70 likes this.
  7. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Get an ifi galvanic

    does the same
     
  8. oktapod

    oktapod Forum Resident

    But does it?
     
    bever70 likes this.
  9. CrimsonFan

    CrimsonFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Henry J likes this.
  10. CrimsonFan

    CrimsonFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    …although technically one could dispute the description of USB as a “format” as opposed to a “connection standard” but I still like the irony ;)
     
  11. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    I have an Ares II in my system right now for fun.

    Wanted to see what the characteristics are.
    Comparing it to a W4S DAC2DSD (Sambra Pro) and a new Ayre DAC.
    Listened to it on a few systems and in comparisons as well. (Im considering a Venus or Terminator).
    Gear used included Maggie 3.6/r, McIntosh MA7000, PS Audio BHK, KEF Reference's, Marantz Ruby, Joseph Audio, Hagal and thousands of dollars in ICs and wire...

    The Ares II is extraordinary in ways. Falls short in places too. But for $800 its an Audiophile Bargain!

    The Ares Absolutely sounds more like vinyl. Very similar characteristics to my Modified Rega 3.
    Full (bit soft, fuzzy at times) bottom end. Extended highs with a little sparkle. Things very much stands out, unexpectedly, Like V spikes made by an EQ up and down the range, know what I mean?? Exaggerated instruments at times - thats both good and bad.

    The W4S has more control. Has that classic Audiophile sound and it’s Trying too! Tighter, sharper, more extended/air, more flat response. Very Detailed! For good or bad.
    Also the W4S changes dramatically with different cables while the Ares is less effected. This makes the W4S very customizable for ultimate Synergy in your system while I believe the Ares is more so set in its voicing. Stock and or cheap wire made all of them sound dull and drab compared to better sounding cables and wire thats for SURE!
    The speed and Accuracy of the Sambra Pro is Obvious!
    I wont say the W4S blows it away (although it does in most ways) because the Ares is just SO DAMN musical! But there is a lack of Air and overtones, in some cases completely gone. The Bass is strong and weighty with the Ares but its not tight and defined. The Ares has a shallower soundstage and less able to focus images within where as the Sambra Pro throws a very deep stage with more layers that are well defined in space.

    To my ears the differences are very much like the differences between vinyl and Digital. I will say that in those ways vinyl is still better, again in those ways.

    Yeah, Baby Got Bass! And weight, like a Kardashian. For my main system its not as resolving as the W4S but again very musical.

    The Ayre??? Well its Far better in all ways! One of the best DAC’s Ive listened too under $10k. Yet VERY similar to the W4S which is just not as refined.


    ARES II - $800

    W4S - $2500

    Arye - $5000
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
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  12. toddrhodes

    toddrhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    USB is really finicky, it's true. Cables shouldn't matter yet for some reason they seem to. I think it's because of the nature of USB data transfer versus a protocol like S/PDIF but I will not pretend to be an expert in that area.

    That said, I had a chance to compare a Hermes in my system to a different DDC. I was actually doing it not to compare subjective sound quality, but to see if Hermes would eliminate the "glitch" or "skip" I had pre-firmware update on Venus II.

    It did not, but also, to me it didn't sound demonstrably better than the option I was using at the time. What I found, in my system, was:

    From least favorable to most favorable:
    Direct from HQ Player PC USB --> Venus II
    Pi 4 USB --> Venus II
    Pi 4 USB (+ battery power) --> Venus II
    Battery Pi4 USB --> Hermes i2S --> Venus II
    battery powered Pi4 --> Battery powered Ian Canada DDC (Amanero Combo 384 USB + FifoPi Q3 with upgraded clocks + HDMIPi for i2S output) --> i2S --> Venus II
    Zen Stream USB --> Venus II

    All of the above streamers were operating in "HQ Player NAA mode" for all the listening I did. Not roon bridges, not "streamers" even per se. Truthfully the fact I was using them as NAA should have meant there would be no change in SQ but I honestly felt there was.

    Bonus, and quite possibly part of the reason I felt it made the most impact was how simplified the setup became with Zen Stream. No batteries, no crazy PSU wiring and such. And... it employs that iFi galvanic isolation and some reclocking, like @Tone? mentioned. Could be just coincidence but I'm not sure. Zen Stream has continued to be the best option in front of my new DAC, despite it featuring a USB implementation that is even better than Venus II, allegedly.
     
  13. Double E

    Double E Time is piling up, we struggle and we scrape

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Thanks, a helpful reply. What type of I2S cable did you go for? I’ve had a couple of recommendations.
     
  14. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Belgium
    Should be sad if the w4s wouldn't better it in some areas, considering its price :D!
    Compare it to a pontus/venus and then get back. Also the most important thing in your review is missing : what setting was the Ares in? If Nos then I agree with less air statement. If OS I don't agree.
     
  15. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    NOS!
    I never upsample. It usually sounds off to me, the ARES did. NOS is fine.

    Like I said the ARES is a great deal. R2R has merit and musicality. And im considering a Terminator or Venus verses upgrading my W4S to high spec (about the same cost as a Venus II)
    But a USED W4S (4-6 years old) go for under $1000 and for the same price as a new ARES II the W4S is a better deal IF YOU WANT that type of sound over the more analog ARES II.
    In my opinion obviously.
     
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  16. Shuggie

    Shuggie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I started with a very ordinary Belkin PureAV HDMI cable, then replaced that with an Audioquest Carbon HDMI. I'm not sure that there is any audible difference between these HDMI cables!
     
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  17. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Maybe try the Ares in OS mode but with the sharp filter.

    It definitely doesn’t lack much detail in OS/slow-rolloff, but it certainly does in NOS. I think probably all NOS dacs lack some top end detail/air though.
     
    bever70 likes this.
  18. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    the Venus II sounds best to me in OS mode with the Sharp filter as well.
     
  19. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    Thanks. Been trying both NOS and OS fast and slow. There is definitely not any more detail in OS, its all there regardless.
    OS just sounds congested and not right to me. Every time I switch back to NOS it snaps into place.
    OS is exaggerated, overly so. Not as natural sounding to me.
     
  20. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Weird. There’s an obvious reduction in resolution in NOS mode in my system.
     
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  21. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    yeah that’s strange. NOS has less resolution on the Venus II as well

    not much mind you.
     
  22. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    On my system I can still hear everything regardless, rarely does detail just go away.
    It’s just less apparent. You may need to listen more closely. on the ARES I’m hearing a more congested and exaggerated presentation. Bit Smaller soundstage, less deep. Seems forced and edgy compared to NOS which is more musical, larger and deeper stage. Every time I switch to OS it gets fatiguing quickly.
    going back and forth with vinyl NOS is most similar to me.
    But I’ve always been a fan of other NOS DACs from the past.

    Using a Harmonic Tech AC-10 power cord, JPS ICs, AQ Carbon USB, Roon Core on a i7 Mac Mini.

    I very much want to hear a Venus II in my home now! Maybe a used Terminator 1.
    I like the R2R DAC overall. I was a long time fan of dSD Ring chips too. Very musical!
     
  23. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Belgium
    NOS is more 'in your face', front row stuff (so yes, soundstage in your room seems to get wider, as you sit apparently closer to the stage). OS puts you back a few rows (accounting for more 'overview' and seemingly smaller soundstage). OS definitely has more top end detail, maybe your speakers don't like too much of that which is why it gets fatiguing for you.
     
  24. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    Nope. Not the case for me. Maybe this DAC is broken. OS sounds poor.
    I sit 12+ feet from the speakers that are far apart.
    Maybe the more forward sound is the congestion I hear.
    The KEF Reference Fours are anything but bright or forward.

    But in DA comparisons in other systems my W4S is more upfront than the ARES in either setting. And the W4S never gets congested.

    Or maybe people just like that sound in OS and I don’t. Seems most use it as an NOS.
     
  25. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    I can't help but think Non Over Sampling is the actual signal.
    Over Sampled is just what somebody on here called it---"Television Picture Edge Enhancement."
    I hear it with my Ares II.
    I hear it with my Pontus II.
    I hear it with DAC chipsets that don't do ladder resistor conversion as all they DO is up sample ad nauseum.
    They sound hard and artificial in comparison to a ladder DAC like the Ares II.
    At least at the price points I have purchased under two grand.

    Compared with vinyl---Non Over Sampling is as close to natural as digital has come over at my house---so far.
    Thank goodness for that.
    If I couldn't get natural sound out of streaming I would be stuck entirely listening to records ONLY.
    Well mastered vinyl records are still the "gold standard" and sound so good they almost "ruin" the digital listening experience.
    Digital even at 24/192 will usually still sound smaller and less alive and "canned' when compared directly to the same thing on vinyl.

    I love the variety I get from Qobuz and 24/192 is really pretty sweet---just DON'T put on the vinyl version or I get dissatisfied in a hurry with 24/192 and lust for the earlier better sound of a record immediately.
    My opinion.
    My set, of course.

    And please don't inform me that I need identical masterings to compare stuff.
    I listen to thousands of comparisons and ON AVERAGE this is what I hear.
    I try to do direct comparisons and already make allowances that SOME recordings don't have matching duplication between formats---I GET it.
    But THOUSANDS of times in general I keep hearing the same basic differences over and over.
    So what do you call that?---a total co-incidence?
    I think not.
    The Doc.
     
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