Welcome Linden Hudson of ZZ Top Fame!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Linden Odell Hudson, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Even at your age have you considered legal action? Seems like you have a valid case for at least some sort of compensation.
     
  2. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    I spent 3 years sueing for the song "thug" back in the 80s, It was a bad experience and lawsuits are not easy. I did get a settlement on Thug but the person who sponsored my lawsuit screwed me too, Im tired of getting screwed, tired of seeing people get screwed. Won't do it again. I'll just voice my story and that's all Ill do.
     
  3. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    To answer this one is easy. After Eliminator (it was still drum machines ever more obviously, I wasn't there any more, but sometimes drum machines are super easy to spot on a record). Once they started cutting hits with drum machine Frank started playing onstage like a drum machine because they had to emulate the latest hits (which were recorded with drum machine). If a recording sounds like the drummer was perfect (God like) then it's a drum machine (almost always).
     
  4. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    At this point (with regard to ZZ and many other bands) they'll pick up a wino off the corner to play bass if it'll get em through a concert, they need money Im certain. Most musicians do. Even if you're considered rich (most bands want to appear as rich but it's always overstated, part of the fantasy). The ZZ brand is big enough to milk a while longer and that brand commands more pay than just a Billy Gibbons brand (50 years of playing loud guitar). Even people who appear to have lots of money need flow, as they often have big mortgages, tons of car payments, etc.. I've worked with lots of famous people and I know they're not all rich like we think. Money is important to us all, so decisions could easily be made in that mode.
     
  5. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    I have an old friend who has been on the road for famous artists and been in the studio with them as well. He told me recently "Linden, you should talk inside talk about music stars". "Why?" i asked. "Because it's confidential" he said. Not true. I never signed an NDA with ZZ and they screwed me. So, screw it, do ya feel me? The manager of the band didn't even know why I was there, It was insane.
     
  6. JulesRules

    JulesRules Weaponized, Deranged Warthog Thug

    Location:
    Germany
    According to that recent documentary (which predictably ignored you... :rolleyes:), Bill Ham also didn't like overdubs and during the recording of one of the early albums, the band had to send him away under a pretext so that Billy could add another guitar part, and they never told him what they'd done. :nyah:
     
  7. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    This gives a clue as to why the documentary ended at Eliminator.
     
  8. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    I appreciate your input here. You mentioned you started working with the band prior to El Loco. I've always wondered why they decided to take such a different musical direction starting with El Loco, a direction that went even further with Eliminator. I thought Deguello had been quite successful. "Cheap Sunglasses" was a hit single. What made them think that they needed to go in a relatively stripped-down, simplified musical direction starting with El Loco?
     
  9. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    I wasn't influential until the very end of El Loco, so I can't speak for other times. Billy and I did a lot of talking about what it takes to "blow up" in the biz. I had lots of theories (like anyone). Billys dream and his goal was to jump to high levels of platinum. That was it. It happened on Eliminator. The success was not all about me, but I was part of it I believe. Gibbons just wanted to break on through to the "upper" side. You're asking "ZZ has a little fire going why wasn't that good enough?" and the answer is "because Billy wanted a 5 alarm bonfire".
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  10. Doggiedogma

    Doggiedogma "Think this is enough?" "Uhh - nah. Go for broke."

    Location:
    Barony of Lochmere
    Hi Linden - thank you for your insight on the genesis of ZZ Top's synth driven success on Eliminator! I, along with many others, found the new synth tone astonishing and wondered how the band was able to re-do it's sound to make it modern (like Alice Cooper did in the early 80's), and now we know!

    If all you want from the ZZ Top camp is non-financial acknowledgment that you helped create Eliminator, why won't mangement work with you on developing an agreement that you will receive non-financial credit for your work on Eliminator? I'm sure the lawyers can draw up a
    no-compensation agreement. If you are looking for financial compensation, the you should consult with lawyer (which you said you did) and I'm sure that if a lawyer found your case strongly in your favor, they would work with you on suing the band.

    Anyway, you seem like a genuinely nice guy, that was swindled.
     
  11. Doggiedogma

    Doggiedogma "Think this is enough?" "Uhh - nah. Go for broke."

    Location:
    Barony of Lochmere
    Linden - I found an article from a few months ago, it says that you settled this case in 1986.
    Sex, cars and videotape: ZZ Top look back on Eliminator

    "Also party to these gatherings was an associate of the band and Beard’s house guest, Linden Hudson, a former DJ, an aspiring songwriter and a sound engineer. Hudson had built Beard’s studio in lieu of paying him rent, and previously had done uncredited pre-production work on El Loco. He stepped into the same role again now, working in particular with Gibbons.

    “Linden was quite an influential, inspirational figure,” Gibbons admits. “He was right there with us when some of the material was developed and brought forward some production techniques that were then valuable. I still treasure the moments that he and I spent together. There was quite a bit of time that the two of us sat behind a mixing console discussing new ways to go about making popular music.”

    Nevertheless, when the following year Eliminator appeared, Hudson’s contribution was once more not credited. On this occasion, though, he took legal action, claiming to have been closely involved in both the creation of sounds and songwriting for the album.

    In large part Hudson was supported by ZZ’s stage manager of 15 years, David Blayney, who in his 1994 biography of the band, Sharp-Dressed Men, wrote that “[Hudson] floated the notion that the ideal dance music had 124bpm [and then] he and Gibbons conceived, wrote and recorded what amounted to a rough draft of the album before the band had ever set foot in the studio.” Hudson’s case was settled in 1986, with the band paying out $600,000 to him after he was adjudged to own the copyright on one of Eliminator’s 11 songs, Thug."
     
  12. Stillin Rockville

    Stillin Rockville "it's not the band, it's the fans"

    Location:
    a farm in Iowa
    One of the perks of being seen as an eccentric genius- as Billy kind of is now- is you get to give credit when you feel like it, not when you have to. He's not going to give that up very easily.
     
  13. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    There is a whole generation that doesn't "know the difference", and apparently they don't care. The money is in the name (Z.Z. Top) now...
     
  14. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Let me answer #3: When Eliminator exploded wasn't the band thankful for your help?: Linden says: Yes and No, but mostly no and "hell no". Right away Frank was distressed, Ham flipped out when I spoke up (to Rolling Stone mag, etc) about Thug and drum machines. Imagine the manager's dream coming true to have a super star band, but at the same time there is a roach in the pudding (Linden). Billy tried a few times to show gratitude over the years by saying a few nice things to the press (Im sure in his mind he thought he was setting things straight, but it wasn't much of an effort, but truly that's Billy). I respect Billy for his guitar playing genius and he's done lots of work, but what about being a human being as well? He's a flawed genius. The two who became my enemies were Frank and Bill Ham (manager). But, then the manager didn't really know what (I) Linden had done for quite a while because Billy was playing dishonest games with everyone. He did achieve what he wanted, but people got screwed and got shafted. Everybody was taking it in the backside because of the actions of Billy (but, again big things happened, it's paradoxical). Frank began to hate me because he blamed me for replacing him with a drum machine, but that was really implemented by Billy. Ham (according to Frank early on) was super mad at Frank for bringing Satan (me) into the kingdom. But he didn't know for sure why I was around (maybe I didn't either). Ham told Frank (right away) that if there were court settlements or judgements that it would come out of his pocket (Franks pocket). This was going down before they realized they were superstars, but they knew they had a big record. What should have been glorious for me, was a nightmare. Over the years Eliminator is their legacy so they keep working at covering this up. At first Bill Ham had me followed by a private detective, and he sent a cop buddy of his to my apartment to scare me. Now some people (not many) dis me because I won't let go of this, and I won't. Billy didn't have a pair because he personally could have come to my aid, I helped, but got no help. Again, Billy can play great guitar, but he's not housebroke. Peace.
     
  15. pscreed

    pscreed Upstanding Member

    Location:
    Land of the Free
    Saddest thread ever on the boards. Just one ordinary guy’s opinion. This is like a wreck you pass by on the highway and you can’t take your eyes off it.

    Great band, no doubt a lot of folks contributed along the way. Sorry to hear it wasn’t a good ride all the way around but man this is sad.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  16. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I think it happens very often with bands that make it big. Whoever is the Alpha Male (or Female) in the band rules. Billy Gibbons is a monster guitar player and songwriter and singer. But he's also a human being with all the frailties that go with every other human. From interviews he seems like a good guy. When he was crazy busy touring, writing songs and doing other music stuff it doesn't seem possible that he could also do all the paperwork, make sure everyone got the proper credit and keep everything running smoothly.
     
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  17. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Like all creative types, they will stop at nothing to achieve their visions, whether it be art, music, writing books, acting or whatever. Sounds like Billy knew what he wanted, and he surely succeeded since ZZ Top became legendary. Unfortunately people behind the scenes don't get the credit they deserve.
     
  18. Stillin Rockville

    Stillin Rockville "it's not the band, it's the fans"

    Location:
    a farm in Iowa
    Yeah. Takes some of the pleasure out of songs I've loved for years. But at the same time, "Thank You" to Linden for his part in making something I and millions of other people have considered part of our lives. Not too many people in this world can say that. I think I can speak for a lot of us here in saying we really wish it would have worked out better for you.
     
  19. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Let me comment on the question: "Did you tour with the band?" : Linden says: Sometimes but I was Franks housesitter and was building him a home studio, so I was comfy there with the pool, hot tub, golden retriever, cable tv, my own room, etc. Once ZZ was going out for several days of shows in Las Vegas and Billy invited me along. There was a night off in the middle of Vegas and I went to see Rodney Dangerfield with the 3 ZZ boys. We sat on the front row. Before the show even started Dusty had a problem and whispered to Frank. Frank turned and quietly asked me if I could help Dusty to the bathroom because he was too drunk to walk. Dusty was my friend, and I was in the crew (for some reason) but I got up and walked Dusty about 50 yards through a crowded area to the restroom, it was strange, but necessary. Other drunk people were high fiving Dusty and trying for autographs. I took him to a urinal and said "here we are, but you gotta do the rest". Then we walked arm in arm back to the table through the high fivers. Dusty very nicely said "thanks Linden". He was a good guy. Frank thanked me with a chuckle. We saw Dangerfield and I was with them for two or three days (I was mostly hangin with roadies that I knew in the daytime, they were out for some fun). Why do I tell this? Because it's different, it shows Dusty as a good guy, but there was his problem. RIP Dusty.

    Another time I was at Franks house (where I lived) drinking coffee in the late morning. The phone rang and it was Gibbons, he was in Kentucky on part of a tour. A tape deck wouldn't work in the gear inventory, it was important, "could you come and try to fix it before tonights show?" I went straight to the airport, a ticket was there for me, landed in Kentucky a roadie took me to the concert hall. I fixed the tape deck in 10 minutes. Gibbons took me up on stage (stage and gear was set up and arena was empty). The opening act (Loverboy) was having dinner onstage and Billy sat me with them and got me dinner. They were super nice to me, great guys, then the roadie took me back to the airport and soon I was back in Houston drinking a beer at Franks house. I billed em as a repair tech. Went to bed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  20. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    By the way, Linden.... you should probably be glad that the title of this thread does not include that you are commenting, because you would likely be deluged with questions.
     
  21. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Seconded! Thank you Linden. Eliminator is one of my all-time favorite albums. I remember when it was peaking I walked into Tower Records in NYC one day, and there were the three ZZ Toppers sitting at a table signing records for people. A store employee gave me a promo poster for Eliminator and they all signed it. Imbecile that I am I lost it during a move a few years later. But the music carries on. I know there's some bitterness now, Linden, but I'm sure there was a lot of joy for you as well to be involved with the band. Most of us here can only dream of such endeavors.
     
  22. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Great stuff! Your mistake was not billing $350,000 for the tape deck repair.
     
  23. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    Interesting. I don't know how to use this blog or whatever it is. I just stumbled across one of these pages and signed up, I started talking but didn't know what to do really. Im without much to do lately and Im getting old so I don't mind answering questions, as many as I can. There was good and bad in this adventure.
     
  24. Linden Odell Hudson

    Linden Odell Hudson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    sugar land texas
    That's a good one. I like it.
     
  25. spice9

    spice9 Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Several years ago Bobby Whitlock, from Derek and the Dominos fame, also stumbled across this place like you did. He started answering questions, hundreds of them. Then a member advised him to write a book about his life instead of just answering questions. Whitlock did write a book, and it's great.
     

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