Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
  2. BryanS

    BryanS Forum Resident

    I'm genuinely excited about this. They seem to have lined up the director of Paddington and Paddington 2 - which are two of the best movies ever made (kids movies or not). It should have a good chance of being successful. Good on you Neil. - now go and knock our socks off!
     
  3. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Yep, and it helped me make the connection as well! :)
     
  4. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Coming soon to a forum near you…

    Timewatching : The Divine Comedy album-by-album thread - the thrilling conclusion.

    Be there or… be somewhere else. ;)
     
  5. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    As hinted at above, I’m now back in the country, everyone is healthy(ish), and I will be ready to resume the thread shortly.

    I’m back at work on Monday so at the very latest that’s when we will start “Foreverland”.
     
  6. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    A reminder of this, before we kick back off tomorrow :)
     
  7. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Right then, welcome back everyone!

    Foreverland

    [​IMG]
    Studio album by
    The Divine Comedy
    Released
    2 September 2016
    Recorded 2015–16
    Studio
    Genre Orchestral pop
    Length 41:43
    55:47 (bonus disc)
    Label Divine Comedy
    Producer Neil Hannon

    Track listing
    All tracks are written by Neil Hannon.

    No. Title Length
    1.
    "Napoleon Complex" 4:45
    2. "Foreverland" 4:01
    3. "Catherine the Great" 3:03
    4. "Funny Peculiar" 2:44
    5. "The Pact" 2:55
    6. "To the Rescue" 5:16
    7. "How Can You Leave Me On My Own" 3:31
    8. "I Joined the Foreign Legion (To Forget)" 3:41
    9. "My Happy Place" 4:10
    10. "A Desperate Man" 2:42
    11. "Other People" 1:35
    12. "The One Who Loves You" 3:20

    Personnel
    Personnel per liner notes included in Venus, Folly, Cupid & Time - Thirty Years of the Divine Comedy.

    Musicians

    Orchestra

    • Andrew Skeet - conductor, additional orchestration
    • Nathan Klein - additional orchestration
    • Isobel Griffiths - orchestra contractor
    • Lucy Whalley - orchestra contractor
    • Adrian Smith, Alison Dods, Bruce White, Chris Worsey, Emma Owens, Everton Nelson, Frank Schaefer, Gillon Cameron, Ian Burdge, Ian Humphries, Lucy Wilkins, Matt Ward, Patrick Kiernan, Pete Hanson, Reiad Chibah, Richard George, Richard Bryce, Rick Koster, Simon Baggs, Steve Morris, Tom Pigott-Smith, Warren Zielinski - string section
    • Billy Cooper, John Ryan, Mark Templeton, Matt Gunner, Richard Edwards, Richard Watkins, Sebastian Philpott, Trevor Mires - brass section
    • Eliza Marshall, Martin Robertson, Richard Skinner, Rosie Jenkins - woodwind section
    Production
    • Jake Jackson - mixing
    • Michele G. Catri - mixing
    • Fiona Cruickshank - mixing
    • John Prestage - mixing
    • Luna Picoli-Truffaut - artwork co-star
    • Raphaël Neal - photography
    • Matthew Cooper - artwork and design
    • John Service - packaging production
    • Natalie de Pace - executive producer and management
     
  8. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Today's song is:

    Napoleon Complex

    Wait, what? Are we still on the "Bang Goes the Knighthood" bonus tracks?

    Nope, this is the second version of Napoleon Complex as released on "Foreverland"!

    But why would you discuss the song again when we already discussed it once?

    Why would Neil put it as the last track on the special edition of “Bang” and then again as the first track of “Foreverland”?

    Good question.

    Besides, didn’t we discuss “The Rise and Fall” twice?

    And “Europop”.

    And we discussed “Timewatch(ing)” THREE times.

    Alright; you’ve made your point.

    Didn't we have this conversation once before?

    Didn't Neil already use this song once before?

    Touché!


     
  9. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    On the 2020 boxset bonus disc for "Foreverland", we also now have this "alternate version" which, confusingly, is not the same alternate version as the one in the "Bang" bonus tracks!

    This one has more of a disco vibe...

     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
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  10. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Oops, forgot this- here’s what Neil had to say about the song in the liner notes:

    Napoleon Complex. Bloody hell. I had an eight-year long fight with this one. Apt, considering it's all about battling one's own rampant ego. From the moment I heard the phrase I thought it was an excellent idea for a song. The theory was that short people (of which I am one) make up for their own inferiority with overly aggressive and domineering social behaviour. As evidence, they pointed to the mediocre stature of many of the world's most maniacal dictators. In scientific terms it's absolute nonsense and has been thoroughly debunked. But one must never let science come between you and a good song. I found it amusing to equate my '90s persona with that of a would-be dictator; patiently plotting his inevitable rise to power. If that seems far-fetched, just read the liner notes for Casanova

    Back when Bang Goes The Knighthood was released, iTunes ruled the roost, and they demanded four bonus tracks for their edition of the album. Unfortunately, interesting second-tier compositions were a bit thin on the ground at the time, probably because I was writing a musical. In a moment of weakness I gave them a demo of Napoleon Complex. Even worse was how iTunes drew no distinction between album tracks and bonus tracks, so people kept saying to me - great record but it ends weirdly. All very frustrating. I decided not to care that I'd lost the element of surprise, and started developing it for this album. However, it proved strangely resistant to change, and gave me no end of headaches. I had countless attempts at it - the 'Nile Rogers' version being the most worthy of bonus disc inclusion - but never came to a firm conclusion. At least it gave me an excuse to dress up as Napoleon!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  11. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Ok, off we go! I will see who reports for duty over the course of today and if we seem thin on the ground I'll start sending people PMs and summoming them back!
     
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  12. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    "Back in the country"? You were in the country, now you've left it!
     
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  13. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Napoleon Complex

    I think - but can't be bothered with looking back in the thread - that when we discussed the demo version, I said that I prefer this finished variant. I enjoy Cathy's vocals, which I think fit the arrangement well. The melody is more or less the same, and here it's dressed up in an attractive arrangement. Perhaps a tad waffly towards the end, but that's okay.

    I could have been fooled that the alternative discofied version was simply some fan who'd added disco beats to the finished version, because that's what it sounds like to me. I suppose there's a bit more than that to it, but it doesn't really inspire any feelings in me that I need to hear it again.

    4.2 (the album version)
     
  14. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Napoleon Complex

    0:00 Vaughan Williams-style swirling intro
    0:10 excellent vocal hook from Davey and the start of some exciting piano plunking
    0:24 some cool unusual percussion starts
    Typical dramatic DC verse with classy orchestral flourishes.
    Killer chorus where it all comes together, recalling Kate Bush art-pop hits like "Sat In Your Lap".

    In the Prince song-by-song thread today they're starting a new album too, the "symbol" album which leads off with "My Name is Prince". That song is a rousing reminder in case anyone had forgotten, that his name is Prince and he is funky. Here's Neil's reminder that his name is the Divine Comedy and he is short of stature (maybe not as short as Prince though). And if you're old enough to recall his nineties persona, you'll remember his dreams of pop world domination. His plans have been thwarted a couple of times since then but he's able to keep a sense of humour about it, as this song shows. It's a perfect comeback song. It should have been a hit single. The reason it wasn't even released as a single. or even a pseudo-single in the digital realm, is presumably because of the iTunes demo bonus track blunder. But it wouldn't be the first time a band came out with a new single that had been familiar for years to their fanbase. 5/5

    A note in advance about the album: this is the first DC album that came out in the streaming era, so I checked it out on Spotify before buying it, and thought it was a mixed bag. Overall more good than bad, and an improvement over Bang but not dazzling enough for me to rush out and buy it. I thought I'd stream it a bit more first. But, as is so often the way, I forgot to listen to it more than a couple of times and it never went on my shopping list. It was a different story with the next album, as the combined lure of a top-quality double album with lots of experimentation, and the "Swallows and Amazons" material, made me take the plunge and buy it, albeit in a digital format to save myself some money. TLDR Foreverland is the Divine Comedy album I'm least familiar with. (EDIT: apart from Fanfare...)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  15. DaniMoonstar

    DaniMoonstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Yay! Welcome back. I’m around and will post later after work.
     
  16. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Hooray! And we're back! Good to hear everything has settled down, @LivingForever - I hope your delays weren't anything too stressful!

    Napolean Complex

    As someone who only did (and still only does) downloads fairly reluctantly, the iTunes bonus tracks to Bang Goes The Knighthood pretty much passed me by, so this track was - to all intents and purposes - new to me for Foreverland. It was also, of course, the first 'new' Divine Comedy album opener I'd heard for years and, to be honest, I was a bit nonplussed by it initially. The combination of the Disco-esque strings and the dominance of Cathy in the chorus meant it took me a while to really appreciate it - I didn't dislike these elements, but they felt like something that didn't quite feel like The Divine Comedy. Once I'd get used to them, though, I could see this for the strong track that I still think it is. The humour level is classic Neil - funny without being irritating on repeated listens, and the arrangement is great. I particularly enjoy the final chorus when the key jumps and Neil adds himself to the main vocal line, and the outro of banjo and percussion is a real treat (there's a lot of banjo on this album, and I'm here for that).

    So, a very solid opening - 4/5 - for an album that I'm not entirely convinced by, at least not to the degree that I am by most of Neil's work. There are some real highs for me on this album, but also some very middling points (though no outright lows, I don't think). Looking forward to hearing other people's views!
     
  17. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Foreverland was the first TDC album I bought on release day, so there’s a chance that I’m biased in its favour because of that… However, I’ve had enough experience buying new material from ‘older’ (ha) artists and being bitterly disappointed, so I think Foreverland is indeed quite special, and that this wonderful album is a second (or third?) wind for Neil; a glorious late-summer blooming.

    That said, I really dislike the album cover… I remember being conflicted in the run up to the album: I thought the cover looked dense and unfocussed in a nightmarish, amateurly way; Catherine The Great sounded decent, but I struggled to shake how much I disliked the ‘bake her a cake’ line and the video was giving me an uncomfortable studenty vibe that didn’t fill me with confidence. How Can You Leave Me On My Own seemed to confirm my doubts, and I was concerned to see, from the track list, that a valuable 8% of album time was given over to a so-so Bang-era bonus track.

    Napoleon Complex
    From the very first few seconds I was won over. Utterly, utterly transfixed. This is an album that is not so much greater than the sum of its parts; more importantly it is the sum of its parts - everything adds up to a gloriously satisfying, wonderful whole. There’s a filmic lusciousness to its sumptuously compelling, convincing romanticism that just works.

    As I expressed (ahem, rattled-on-about) at the appropriate time, I don’t think Bang demonstrated any confidence, direction or (heaven forbid) swagger. The opening notes of this song, by contrast, STRUT out of the speakers. I can see why someone wouldn’t like Cathy’s backing vocals, but they sound sensational to me; I particularly like the way she provides the intensity and passion in this song, and Neil’s vocal is understated; the contrast works wonderfully. And then (talking again about the opening bars) Cathy’s brief recitation of the title stops and about a hundred different sounds enter onto the stage - like a Pet Sounds arrangement - before Neil even sings the first line.

    The song is good - I’d have given the Bang version a 3 or a 4; the production, orchestration and arrangement lift this to a 5/5. Love it.
     
  18. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Glad you're back @LivingForever :)

    Napoleon Complex
    I can't remember what I said last time, and for the sake of inconsistency (and to mildly irritate @TheBooklover ;)) I won't refer back to it :p
    When I first heard this I didn't get the best impression. I stumbled upon the album a year or more after its release on a rare visit to a record shop in Banbury (killing time between a work meeting and a visit to my grandma). My interest in DC was at an all-time low, and with about 5 years of distance since I had last engaged with his music I'd forgotten Neil's general approach. Therefore, this sounded to me as though he was saying "I'm back and I'm still too clever for my own good. Behold, violins and banjos. And look! we now have silly noises and historical references! Isn't this just what you want from the witty and charming Divine Comedy?"
    This was basically my first impression of the whole album o_O, and pretty much my only impression until the beginning of this year when I joined this thread and gave it another chance.
    Safe to say, I like both album and song a lot more now! :winkgrin: (no zero scores this time, although I think I have one more to come before the end of our travels...).

    Slightly random comments:
    • I like the bells, dings, and other funny percussion and claps (despite my negative first impression!)
    • The first voice you hear on the first TDC album in 6 years being Cathy's is an interesting choice, but it all makes sense upon hearing the rest of the album!
    • I like that middle section when everything drops out and Cathy is calling 'Napoleon'. I'm not sure why.
    • The call and answer between the strings and brass in the outro is lovely. I could do without the banjo and comedy percussion there though; the banjo throughout the song is fine but that last bit pushes my anti-banjo buttons!
    • There's some really nice-sounding bass during the outro too, and it runs into the sound effects that start the next song, 'Liberation-style'.
    • Is this the first TDC album track Neil has played drums on?
    Overall I think it's good fun and really well arranged etc, but not a song I think I'd seek out.
    3/5
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  19. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Always forget to mention the cover! I love it - has a really gorgeous romantic, almost Art Nouveau vibe, with those dancers, the Zeppelin, camel, and this glorious woman sitting on top of the globe; anything is possible in an age of hope, light and glory (between the 1st and 2nd World Wars?).
    Is it an advert for a shipping line?
    And after spending some time recently getting to know the album better, I do think it fits the content really well. However I don't think the photos inside really do a lot (especially the plastic horse one), except give Neil the chance to raid the dressing up box (and probably get that DC Facebook group all hot and bothered...! ;))
    But I am biased against covers that feature a big photo of the artist's face, and besides, after the last cover it was a bit of a relief!
     
  20. DaniMoonstar

    DaniMoonstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Napoleon complex
    Another big bold western sounding strings opening. The instrumentation’s quite quirky and cinematic at times. Hadn’t spotted until this listen the reference to the circular firing squad, which is a fun recall. Hadn’t realised this was a self deprecating reference: thanks for the interview insights, @LivingForever. That’s a theme he’ll return to later.

    3.5/5
     
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  21. Radiophonic_

    Radiophonic_ Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    "Napoleon Complex": I've listened to the album a few times in recent weeks while walking the dog/doing errands/etc, and while nothing has leapt up or down in my rankings; the four tracks I always skip remain so, and my favorites haven't changed either. But, there have been slight nudges, and this was one of them, as it has grown on me more. I do like the diverse percussion, and it's a slick arrangement. There's a voice (I am assuming still Cathy) during the instrumental section around 2:40-2:45 that speaks a couple lines, but even with cranking the volume in my headphones I can't make out what is being said. The second time sounds something like "come back to me"? Overall, I enjoy it, and it would certainly, as has been mentioned above, make a much better single than what we had. 4/5

    As to the album itself, I've never liked the album art; it looks like something pulled out of a 1001 public domain art images package or something, and the cursive writing gives it a cheap, amateurish look to me. I backed the release of the album through the unlamented Pledge Music platform (several decades ago in May 2016, according to my email), which if I remember correctly went under while ripping off a bunch of bands/labels in doing so. I went for the deluxe CD, but I don't recall what other options were available. My initial reaction was one of general disappointment; it seemed like another step downwards on the trajectory of the "is your favorite artist past it" scale. I don't think I listened to it more than a handful of times and then shelved it, and I daresay I'd have sold it without the presence of "In May" to keep me hanging on to it. I rarely played it afterwards until the box set came out and I went through everything again, where it made a better, if not overwhelming, impression.
     
  22. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Interesting - I don't remember the Pledge option being available for this (though I do remember buying it from HMV when it was released, so maybe I wasn't paying attention to the online options). What I do remember, though, is the official site selling demo cds after the album came out - one demo track burned to a disc and mailed to you directly. Money for My Lovely Horse, perhaps?
    I was tempted, of course, but I didn't go for it - it would have irked me not to have been able to collect them all. I'm curious as to whether any of the demos made it to the box set bonus disc, or whether they all remain unique...
     
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  23. Hazey John II

    Hazey John II The lyrics are fine, there's no problem there

    Welcome back! Heh, very pleased to see both of you making a reappearance.

    Here's the discussion on the demo if anyone wants to see how consistent they are:
    Napoleon Complex (demo)

    Looks like my opinions are just a jumble of everyone else's. Heard this album on streaming a few times when it came out, then moved house and job a few weeks later and forgot about it. It just felt like more Divine Comedy, which should be a good thing, but there was nothing very surprising about it, it all seemed very cosy and familiar. When you hear each song start, you know how it's going to end. I get songs from it mixed up with Bang - which album is My Happy Place on? What about Have You Ever Been In Love? And the cover doesn't have Neil on it, or even the title. In fact, it still doesn't quite feel like a real album to me - never had a physical copy until the box set.

    It's also conceptually odd - you know I love the themed albums, but this feels like it has two different themes that don't quite fit together. The Napoleonic war stuff vs the love songs... I guess they kind of gel, but I still feel I'm missing some key to it.

    But, like others, more listening over time, particularly this year, has revealed many pleasures. It's a good album! And I'm glad we've had a month off actually because it sounds even better with fresh ears. Oh yes, Neil Hannon, he's quite good isn't he?

    The song: my favourite bit is the jam session with the orchestra at 3:40ish, that alternating string/horn line is really glorious. The more muscular demo is fun though - was going to say 'shame the funny Scrappy Doo bugle call at 3:35 didn't make it' but now I can hear it on the final version, just mixed down a bit. However, I don't like the 'comedy percussion' as @The Turning Year put it, the string swoops after each couplet in the first verse, the clarinet-like tooting in the second. A bit too on the nose - isn't he a funny little man? (Why is the bugle call OK though? Not sure - maybe because that sounds like Napoleon trying to be pompous, whereas the other funny noises are commentary undercutting him, which we could easily fill in for ourselves.)

    So it's not a top score for me, but as good as Alfie, Everybody Knows, National Express? Yes, sure. 4/5
     
  24. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Ooh, here’s something I was going to come to eventually…

    First of all, Pledgemusic - yes I do recall the album being launched via this site. Pledge was weird- it started out like Kickstarter or whatever, with people tying to raise funds to be able to create/release their new album, and offering rewards for backers. Then it seemed to just turn into a pre-order service for hundreds of bands, many of whom were signed to major labels. So I eventually wondered what the point was, and I guess so did everyone else, until it folded. Sad story about the number of artists and fans who lost funds in the last days of the site, though…

    But yes. The demos. I have no recollection of this, but it seems that one of the pledge rewards was your very own exclusive demo mailed to you on a CD-R. There were apparently about 65 of these, all one offs, and all different demos of of various songs from “Foreverland”. From what I understand, none of these demos have ever been released anywhere else in the exact form they were sent out- making each of these CDs one of a kind.

    Really we ought to be trying to collect these up and preserve them somewhere, because CD-Rs don’t last forever - but I know that some people have tried to get copies of as many as possible and not got very far.

    Here’s what we know to exist (courtesy as always of ashortsite):

    1. Funny Peculiar [Demo version 28/03/2013]
    2. Funny Peculiar [Demo version 30/03/2013]
    3. Funny Peculiar [Demo version 21/01/2013]
    5. Funny Peculiar [Demo version 19/09/2015]
    6. How Can You Leave Me On My Own [Demo version]
    12. Catherine The Great [Demo version 04/04/2014]
    13. Catherine The Great [Demo version 07/04/2014]
    14. Catherine The Great [Demo version 09/06/2015]
    18. The Pact [Demo version 17/10/2014]
    20. Slow Boat To China ['Catherine The Great' demo 19/05/2015]
    23/25/27 ??. My Happy Place [Demo version]
    26. I Joined The Foreign Legion (To Forget)[Demo version]
    41. How Can You Not Be Me ['How Can You Leave Me On My Own' alternate demo]
    43. How Can You Leave Me On My Own [Demo version 28/05/2015]
    44. How Can You Leave Me On My Own [Demo version 05/06/2015]
    49. Napoleon Complex [Demo version 03/05/2014]
    52. Napoleon Complex [Demo version 11/04/2015]
    57. The One Who Loves You [Demo version 06/04/2015]
    64. Reconnecting ['To The Rescue' demo 19/05/2015]
    64b. C'est Si Bon
     
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  25. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Napoleon Complex

    Quite like this one! Not entirely convinced by Cathy's background vox, but I don't dislike them. The arrangement has a lot of interesting textures and I think Neil chose the right version to feature on the album. Not sure that I loved it upon release, but now it's a favorite. 4/5

    Edited to add that I'm listening again and I think the drums sound really good (which I don't always think about DC recordings).
     

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