No Time to Die (2021 James Bond film). May include spoilers!*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by shokhead, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Favourite Bond theme tunes ?

    Nothing after Dalton era.

    Example:
    Goldfinger
    DAF
    OHMSS
    McCartney
    A-Ha
     
  2. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    McCartney
    Simon
    then all the rest
     
  3. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I like McCartney and Simon's themes the BEST.

    I actually like most of the Bond themes as they are a product of the times each came out. Two exceptions though. Madonna's theme for DAD was pure awfulness (I guess the perfect accompaniment to the movie) and Lulu's theme for MWTGG was kitchy even for 1974. Pure cringe.

    The rest work pretty well. The Craig era themes aside from Skyfall aren't memorable on their own , but they work with the opening credits of each film, which is what matters most. Although, I do think Radiohead's rejected themesong for SPECTRE would have been better than the Sam Smith song. It's on YouTube put over the credits sequence and I think it works better for the movie.
     
  4. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Scott Walker - Only Myself To Blame featured in the credits of Die Another Day, lyrics by Don Black that was pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  5. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I would put Macca obviously at the top. I also really like Shirley Bassey in Goldfinger, Chris Cornell in Casino, Tina Turner in GoldenEye, and Billie Eilish in the latest film. Guilty pleasure - Madonna in Die Another Day. It's catchy!

    I went to rewatch the film with my Ma the other day. I still maintain it's a great installment. The best for me since Casino. Despite being made in the pre-COVID era, it really captured nicely this atmosphere of uncertainty and worry, which is prevalent these days.
     
    David Campbell likes this.
  6. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    From all these reports, I suspect there's some sort of firmware update or setting or something that some theaters didn't perform? Some of the pics people are posting are really bad. It didn't look like that in my theater.
     
    PH416156 likes this.
  7. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Picture perfect, also sound in my screening.
    Pity about the film / soundtrack... lol :laugh:
     
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  8. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    I really like Cornell's "You know my name", even bought the single in 2006. Adele's "Skyfall" is a top Bond theme song. They really nailed it.
    Sam Smith's one is almost as bad as "Die another day".
     
  9. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    It's possible that some theaters didn't check their setup when reopened. The movie is a digital file they're streaming or playing from a hard drive, it should be perfect.

    These online pics may have been taken with mobile phones but sadly I saw the film this way on the big screen.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I understood what happened in the Paloma bit but this is the way I saw it.

    [​IMG]



    I'm inclined to believe this is a more accurate representation of what people have seen at the good theaters

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  10. shokhead

    shokhead Head shok and you still don't what it is. HA! Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal, Long Beach
  11. gabacabriel

    gabacabriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    "....every film, every scene, every hat landed on a hatstand, every grin at Desmond Llewelyn’s sternness, is now brutally recontextualised. When Connery wins at roulette, when Roger Moore attempts re-entry, when Pierce Brosnan merrily drives a tank through St Petersburg, they are all portraying a man destined to lie bleeding, heartbroken and alone, missing the daughter he never really knew, waiting to be blown to bits by his own country’s missiles. It’s quite the buzzkill."

    THIS.
     
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  12. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Glad there’s others not pleased with the film.
    Think the ending pissssed them of.
     
    Wil1972 likes this.
  13. Joker to the thief

    Joker to the thief Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Wow, definitely didn't look like those screen grabs when I saw it - I actually thought the cinematography was quite beautiful through most of the movie (although maybe leans too heavy on teal) and definitely closer to that final shot you posted.
     
  14. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
  15. dolstein

    dolstein Senior Member

    Location:
    Arlingon, VA
    I know this is wishful thinking, but for the next James Bond series reboot, I wish they'd take a stab at adapting the novels, with events set in the 50s and early 60s. With the exception of Thunderball (which started out as a film script before Ian Fleming turned it into a novel) and On Her Majesty's Secret Service, the movies weren't particularly faithful to tbe books. And while I like the Connery Thunderball and the Lazenby OHMSS, sticking You Only Live Twice in between completely screwed up the narrative arc.
     
  16. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I think a faithful adaptation of The Spy Who Loved Me would work, but it won't have gadgets of car chases. It would be more a noir-ish drama.
     
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  17. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I mean...I got a little emotional at the ending too...but jesus. I think some people are getting a bit melodramatic over a character that doesn't have a set in stone canon and whose continuity between films for the most part is tenuous at best and almost non existent. Only the past 5 films have had any sort of continuity and its a closed off story anyway that doesn't connect to all of that stuff Mitchell seems to think is now retroactively tainted. He's just one or two steps away from whining about his ruined childhood.

    Unless, of course, you believe that Telly Sevalas/Donald Pleasance Blofeld and that version of SPECTRE is the same version of Spectre where Blofeld is Bonds foster Brother . Or Robert Brown M had a sex change and became Judy Dench M. Or 58 year old Roger Moore became 30 ish Timothy Dalton within three years....or.....etc. Mitchell seems to think all 25 films are this tightly woven tapestry of linear canon, when it has been anything but.

    Or, more likely....he's willfully ignoring it in order to to rail against an ending he simply didn't like and wasn't what he personally wanted. Which I understand not liking it or wanting it...I don't think anyone wanted Bond to die,but its utter hyperbole that this one closed off story forever "spoils " Bond, whether for the future or retroactively. Its frankly a crock of...well you know what.

    ..and honestly? If every story ended EXACTLY as we expected/want them to...things would get damn boring and predictable. At that point we would all be better off writing our own stories where everything is always safe and our fragile dispositions are kept safe and sound and never ever challenged and characters we love never ever die, lest it makes us uncomfortable or sad.

    I could almost see where he is coming from if EON from the start strived for a linear continuous story that had a certain beginning point and a certain set in stone end point, and that EON made the announcement that NTTD was to be the grand finale to 60 years of continuity and this would be the final Bond movie ever made. But it isn't.


    If the ending of this film and the film itself is so distressing, its just a simple matter of ignoring it and moving on . There are 24 other movies and many more to come I'm sure where Bond lives to fight another day. One movie that ends a little differently than than hasn't hurt or ruined anything. It was a particular story with a beginning, middle and end over 5 films. That particular story has been told. Next time will be a new story. Hopefully one that will please Mr. Mitchell's delicate sensibilities.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  18. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I wouldn't mind them doing a faithful adaptation of the original Blofeld trilogy from the original Books in the proper running order. The original films sort of botched it a bit.
     
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  19. Joker to the thief

    Joker to the thief Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I think firstly you need to understand that David Mitchell is a comedian and that he was writing in a regular only semi-serious column. I also think some of the cultural place Bond holds here in Britain might get lost in translation overseas. People really do see this as a continuous franchise where the tone may have changes and dates may have been altered, but it’s not like Batman or Spider-Man where there’s a 100 different takes and they’re unrelated - the whole series is seen as a going concern. There were a lot of people vocally angry with the changes to Blofeld (I wasn’t one of them, although I wasn’t a fan of spectre because I thought the script was weak - especially the labotamy sequence) and that weren’t happy with the soft reboot in Casino Royale (again I wasn’t one). The thing I hate about superhero movies is that they can just retcon and start again any time they like, bring characters back from the dead with some nonsense explanation or undo any of there dramatic choices so that those dramatic choices are essentially meaningless and pointless. And they haven’t previously with Bond retconned biographical details, and they have made multiple references to previous adventures throughout, so it clearly is meant to be the same character just with the dates changing - closer in that sense to the Simpsons rather than a comic book. Hell, they even kept the producers and writers pretty constant throughout until those writers producers have died off. There are no right or wrong answers with art and it’s not really your right to police other people’s reactions by calling it hand-wringing, or silly, or melodramatic, or to try and ascribe politics to people that are not in their posts, or declare them toxic fans for merely stating that they didn’t like the ending and giving the reasons why (I’ve not seen a single post here that has given an explanation that is any way toxic). You have the right to love the ending, and I’m glad you did. And you have the right to disagree with my opinion just as I have the right to disagree with yours, but can we please leave out the continuous ad hominem attacks?
     
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  20. Halloween_Jack

    Halloween_Jack Senior Member

    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Been thinking the same too. Do faithful (or as faithful as current times would allow) representations of each book in the correct time period. Unfortunately unlikely to happen as the complaints about racism, sexism and misogyny etc. would likely prevent accurate adaptions of each novel, but could be done with decent script-writers who kept the core of each story and left enough in there that it wasn’t a complete re-write of the Bond character. What else is left for them to do? Craig represents the modern era well enough. It’ll just be more of the same (with a different actor) without a radical change, and the decision to adapt each book (in order) as faithfully as modern times will allow might be a great way to restart Bond, particularly for newcomers and ‘old’ fans alike. Start with a clean slate, use each book as the only inspiration and forget about the existing films. I’d love to see period recreations and the fashions and locations and cars etc. It’ll never happen, but I’d rejoice if it did! :)
     
  21. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Where did I mention his politics? Or call him toxic? Or anyone here in this thread toxic?

    And I liked the movie and I think the ending is fine for the story the film makers wanted to tell. Not what I personally would have chosen to do, but then again I'm not a writer, and I am glad the creative team didn't play things safe just for the sake of tradition. They went for broke and I think the film, and ultimately Bond, will be the better for it in the long run, even if it may not look that way in the short term. After all, it took 40 years for people to see OHMSS as the masterpiece it is and its influence over the Craig series and the new one can't be underestimated.

    I admit I didn't know Mitchell was a comedian and maybe he's being ironic. I failed to get his humor if that was his intent and if that's the case , maybe it went over my head. So perhaps I was a bit harsher than I should have been. Ok I'll give him benefit of the doubt that he was exaggerating things to be humorous. I didn't find it funny, but whatever.

    That being said, I still think people are overreacting to all of this, and I think once everyone is more distant from the emotion of it all, they will see that the franchise is fine and far from spoiled. There will be a Bond 26 with a new actor in the role and a new story. They may pull a page out of the YOLT novel that had Bond seemingly perish in an explosion only to turn up alive with a new actor in the role. Or they revive the previous Pre Craig continuity and continue from there. Or they completely reboot again. Or some combination of all of the above. In any case...we have more Bond to look forward to. Hopefully something that will appeal more to those that didn't like the Craig films or this one in particular.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  22. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    I personally wouldn't be against that. I also think maybe adapting some of the post Fleming novels may be a way forward.
     
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  23. Joker to the thief

    Joker to the thief Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Not his politics, I'm talking in general. Here are some of the quotes:-
     
  24. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    1) the first quote i was talking about fandom in general. Not about this movie specifically or anyone here specifically. I think it was spurred by an off topic brief discussion about Bree Larson a few pages back.

    That being said, the negative discourse surrounding this movie leading up to its release has indeed in part been tainted by people who automatically assumed that the Nomi character having the 007 designation meant that the movie was going to sideline Bond and it was going to be a two hour lecture on feminism because Pheobe Waller Bridge contributed to the movie's script. That turned out not to be true of course. Nomi was at most a sidekick, Bond was the unquestioned protagonist, and Waller Bridge's contributions are barely even noticeable.

    yet,on my YouTube feed, thanks to the wonderful algorithm that randomly recommends anything Bond (or Star Wars or Star Trek etc)related, there are videos from many of the same people who insured that NTTD was going to be the new feminist manifesto,that are now saying Bond's death was PROOF they were right all along and that the next Bond will be a woman, or a trans lesbian, or whatever their paranoid imagination can conjure up. They continue to spread outright lies and misinformation....and people believe it and spread it around. That is a problem.

    Over on Reddit, the spoiler discussion is rife with people harping nonstop about wokeness and SJW'S "murdering "Bond etc. While its true that i don't think anyone here and the majority of people who didn't like this movie and the ending hold these opinions, to pretend that it isn't a thing and that no one believes the "woke" criticisms is frankly denying reality. That part of fandom is small, but loud and seemingly getting louder by the day, and sadly they can be persuasive. Its almost impossible to ignore.

    2) I was responding to Alexpop who did admit he went into the film already prepared not to like it and ultimately didn't. So...ok? What part of that is an attack? You also conveniently left out the rest of what I said there when I also said going in being predetermined to like a film no matter what can also blind someone to a movie's flaws and that it can cut both ways. I was being diplomatic because I like Alexpop and we've had interesting discussions here in the past. So...next time put my whole quote in its full context. Instead of cherry picking stuff.

    ...and Speaking of cherry picking quotes out of a larger context...

    3) so...what about that quote is political? Or even talking about toxicity? It was me actually talking about an excerpt from an article that was posted whose title which basically said that Bond the Character wasn't built for the 21st century, and I disagreed and provided a counter argument. If you quoted my whole response instead of a paragraph, that would be clear.

    And yes, several pages back, a few people were indeed talking about the Bond formula and were displeased that the Craig films didn't stick to the formula of the pre 2006 entries. Someone was arguing that unless a Bond movie sticks to that formula each time, then its not a Bond movie but something else entirely. I disagree with that mindset. I wasn't attacking anyone. Just stating what occurred in the thread. If you personally felt attacked or felt i was talking about you. ( I honestly don't remember who was talking about that) I apologize.

    But...yes, my opinion is that some Bond fans put Formula above story. There are very strict traditionalists that bristle at anything that even breaks with tradition in the slightest. That's true of any fandom. Always has been and always will. Again, no attack, just an observation. Am I not allowed to mention they exist?

    I mean, the whole Craignotbond.com movement way back in 2004/2005 basically wasn't based on Daniel Craig's acting ability or his ability or inability to do the physical work...but simply because the guy had blonde hair and he refused to dye it. Oh, and because he was photographed wearing a life jacket riding on a speed boat on the way to the announcement photo op. IF that isn't proof that there are indeed a group of loud and angry fans that resist any small change to "the formula" out there...well I don't know what to tell you. My opinion and what I was attempting to articulate was that being too married to that formula will insure the character eventually becomes irrelevant... and truly will be the real death of Bond. but thats my opinion. I know people disagree.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  25. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yeah that was pretty good.

    A bit off topic, but I was recently flipping through the book to the Elton John Jewel Box collection and in it, Elton mentioned that the final track from his ICE ON FIRE album "Shoot Down The Moon" was his and Bernie Taupin's attempt to write a Bond theme. Apparently it was rejected. I'm guessing based on the timing that would have been 1985...for the then forthcoming Living Daylights. I have to say the producers made the right choice. The Aha song is better.
     
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