Black Sabbath - Sabotage - 5 LPs!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Cranny, Apr 9, 2021.

  1. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    So, do you think it's simply a marketing decision? It seems unlikely that they really expect different results from having the same person remaster the same material. Is it just so they can have a shiny sticker with "2021 Remaster" on it?
     
  2. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Andy Pearce is familiar with the stuff of Black Sabbath. Record companies hire the guys for hours, because most mastering engineer work as freelancer today, for example Steve Hoffman worked as freelancer for many labels... Audio Fidelity, Pure Pleasure Records, Warner Bros./Reprise Records, Yarlung Records etc.

    I think Andy has the 1:1 files on his harddisk.. good for him ;) That is good in the digital age, you must not copy or return the tapes :D
     
  3. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    If he has (digital) copies of the masters, what's his excuse for what he delivers? :D
     
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  4. I disagree: if they expected different results from having the same person remaster the same material, they were right. Whatever one thinks about the 2009, 2012 and 2021 Sabbath Pearce remasters respectively, they mostly sound very different from each other.

    A marketing decision? Hardly, precisely because Andy Pearce's name has been attached to previous Sabbath remasters already. I guess it's just laziness. And why not, since even on this forum many people are obviously willing to buy this stuff anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  5. He's paid for it?

    Besides, the claim that he has kept digital copies of the masters is pure speculation. It is also irrelevant, since BMG have the master tapes and WB apparently have digital copies of the master tapes, and none of the Sabbath remasters of the last decade (other than "Evil Woman") has suffered from tape flaws.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  6. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Sales. These sets are mainly about having some shiny new product on the market before we dinosaurs still into physical product stop caring or die off entirely.
     
  7. tillman

    tillman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Singapore
    the original CDs have that fuzzy sound cutoff before the third (?) transition around minute 7 or so and it appears to be gone from the remaster sample. Does anyone know what this is about? Sounds like someone messed with a cable in the studio or a board started to go out.

    EDIT: minute 6:48-53 range on the first CD pressing from Creative Sounds. Perhaps only on the CDs. Happy to report it is fixed on the new remasters (2013 & 21).
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  8. hutchguv

    hutchguv Rock/Metal/Prog/Pop

    Location:
    England
    I just listened to this, I don't know what it is, sounds like either tape damage or as you said channel dropout in the mastering chain

    I just listened to the original Castle NELCD 6018 as that has what appears to be tape damage on the first four tracks, but it doesn't have this dropout on it.

    I suggest you search through @blacksabbathrainbow Sabbath mastering thread to see if this has been brought up before

    Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums
     
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  9. tillman

    tillman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Singapore
    thanks! It’s referenced there as “fix the left channel…” but nothing beyond that. It’s always bothered me but don’t hear it in the new masters thankfully.
     
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  10. Thanks for the heads up, I guess I'll have to look into this. Which "2013" remaster are you referring to?
     
  11. tillman

    tillman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Singapore
    I flipped over to Spotify for their 2013 labeled remaster as I didn’t have the new one (deluxe ed) yet.
     
  12. It is probably the 2012 Pearce remaster. AFAIK, there is no 2013 remaster.
     
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  13. Can you please specify (a) which release you were listening to and (b) at which time (mm:ss) of The Writ that "pre-echo thing" occurs? I am not sure what you mean.

    The first CD pressing of the album is not a Creative Sounds CD but the 1986 Castle CD (not sure if the CLACD or the NELCD was the first one, but both are from 1986 and sonically they're the same). As usual with Creative Sounds, they issued this album multiple times on CD, often using different tapes, transfers or masterings. I have two Creative Sounds releases of Sabotage: One is a US release with cat# 6003 with red print on the disc and matrix# 6003 (11515 AZ) SRC+01. The other is a West German release with cat# 6003-2 and 449802-2, black print, and matrix #PILZ CD 449802-2 103. On both of these CS CDs, I notice notable left-channel drop-outs at 6:58 of The Writ. I hear no flaws at 6:48 but maybe that's because you possibly have a different CS release?

    However, CS CDs are known to be messy and flawed and these two are simply no exceptions. For example, on Am I Going Insane, the first drop-outs (not quite as notable as the ones on The Writ) already occur at 0:03 (in the right channel). Also, TW and AIGI are switched, ruining the transitory sequence between both, and TW runs only 7:50 vs. 8:11 (1986 Castle CD) and 8:12 (original WB CD). I hear none of the aforementioned drop-outs on either the 1986 Castle or the original WB CD. Both do have other flaws, but side 1 of the WB and side 2 of the Castle are pretty much perfect as far as I can hear: no notable drop-outs or other tape flaws, and great, well-balanced mastering. The 2009 Sanctuary CD is great as well and probably uses the best source, but is both a tad too dark and a tad too compressed IMO. However, for anyone who would like this album to sound significantly darker than the original LPs, let alone recent remasters, the 2009 is the best possible choice. The 2021 remaster sounds too harsh and the 2012 remaster sounds way too bright for my taste, so none of those two is a serious competitor for me.

    Thank you for weighing in on this. Did you check the respective spot on the original WB CD as well?
     
  14. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    Are you referencing the drop-out in ‘Am I Going Insane’ on the WB release there Linda?, or are there other issues I don’t know about? - (apart from the absence of ‘Blow On A Jug’).
     
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  15. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    18-19 seconds in on the standard old US WB CD. Be careful, it's just before the loud part.
     
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  16. Hmmm, I honestly don't notice anything odd there (on the original WB CD). Which release were you listening to?
     
  17. Oops, I just noticed you did say you were listening to the original WB CD. Sorry. Hm, since I don't hear any flaw there, I guess I am not sure what you mean with "pre-echo"...
     
  18. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    And the ‘loud’ part of ‘The Writ’ comes in at 39 secs.
    Is there any chance it’s not the WB, it’s another version with a different index time from the transition of AIGI to ‘The Writ’?
     
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  19. No, I am not aware of any other issues on the WB, other than the drop-out on AIGI.
     
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  20. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    Cool! It’s pretty much a perfect disc so imo.
     
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  21. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    Whichever version I have just before the loud part I can faintly hear Ozzy singing “The way I feel is the way I am.” I think I have the original WB CD but many of my discs are packed.
     
  22. Thanks for clarifying. So what you have cannot be the original WB CD since, as @Gus Tomato rightly pointed out, the loud part of The Writ only starts at 0:39 of that track. Same goes for the original Castle and WG Vertigo CDs. On the two aforementioned Creative Sounds releases, the loud part starts at 0:15. I don't hear any pre-echo to Ozzy's singing on any of these five discs.
     
  23. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    Ok, I figured it out. I was listening to a version of the song that I manually edited for my ipod so it didn't start in the middle of the transition. What I hear is still just before the loud part...y'all just need to turn up the volume. I'm fairly certain I have the bog standard WB release. 37 seconds in on the unedited track. Not sure what loud part you mean at 15 seconds but I mean the loud part/entrance at 39-40 seconds.
     
  24. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    Yeah, I can just about hear it actually. Possibly an intentional production choice? I need to check other versions of the song that I have……
     
  25. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    It’s there on the ‘96 Castle as well, could well be intentional, it’s a fairly dense multi-layered production.
     
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