What is your “nothing left to be desired” CD set up?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LakeMountain, May 27, 2021.

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  1. bug2362

    bug2362 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Seattle, WA
    Thanks Idid not know about that feature- I switched to 2 from 1.
     
  2. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Yeah, thanks for that. As I say, I'd want an appreciable difference and up of performance. I also don't want my CD's to sound like Vinyl. I find that entire argument severely flawed and baffling. Soundstage, clarity, timing - that's where the meat is for me. But there are so many DAC's out there, and those from China aren't exactly offering feasible returns if you're unhappy. I'd be in for a good piece of change, anyway.
     
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  3. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    It’s just worth figuring out what “difference” is better for you. More transparent is a matter of taste, and not so much to do with being vinyl like.

    The advantage of Denafrips and Holo is value and quality. And they are very popular thus easily sold at minimal loss if they aren’t for you.
     
  4. NorthernAudio

    NorthernAudio Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Too audiophile and revealing? That’s a stunning sentiment. Almost as much as “… all the way up to the DirectStream …”.
     
  5. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    It depends what you’re after. The further up the revealing ladder you go, the worse non-audiophile recordings sound. “More revealing” means that recording flaws will be amplified and further exposed. Great recordings will sound utterly fantastic, but that’s at the expense of lesser recordings of still great music. This is a well known audiophile conundrum. I’m far from the first to express this conundrum.

    With each DirectStream updated, another swath of believed recordings became almost unlistenable….. this taught me a lot about the potential perils of transparency.
     
  6. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    I think this is about tolerance. There are people on the forum who claim DR9 is crushed, whereas generally I don't find it to be so. This is also prevalent when talking about the amount of bass in a recording - some people can't get enough bass, others want a very controlled bass response. This was evidenced by the last mastering of Bowie's Low. The bass is bigger, but not overblown on my system. Others have claimed it's gone way over the top. I assume their systems are already bass heavy, and it's causing issues. In the end, it's just about your own tolerances.

    For sure, if I have my system set up perfectly - a lot of recordings begin to sound "off". Great recordings sound amazing, but any flaws do become self-evident. For example, one disc will have a great soundstage, whereas another disc is all pulled to the right, left, or refuses to become coherent. There's no fixing it for everything.
     
  7. NorthernAudio

    NorthernAudio Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    I don’t believe in this notion of “perils of transparency”, and no conundrum exists. And I sure don’t view the DirectStream as a particularly revealing DAC.
     
  8. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    I'm only trying to help. Your Yamaha CD player is extremely basic on every level. It's a $300 unit. You expressed an interest in upgrading. The DirectStream DAC costs $6000 and is very very revealing, on a world class level. I was only cautioning you to think about the direction you wish to go in. That ultra revealing comes with a price. This is a well documented issue, it's not only my opinion. Perhaps you prefer ultra-revealing, then that's great, go for it. However, the good news is that music can sound extremely good, and to my tastes, better when a balance is found between ultra revealing and musicality - and it can save you money as well. Such things are a very personal and subjective thing. What one person prefers can vary greatly. There is no wrong opinion, only different opinions.

    When I saw your post about the Yamaha CD-S300 it reminded my of my earlier audiophile days when I had budget gear and was swayed into pursuing ultra transparency. I went down that road and found it lacking - to my tastes.

    My only intent was to provide you the benefit of my experience. It's just an idea, that's all, no harm. The intent is to help.

    But who knows, plenty of people prefer very revealing, transparent gear. And you might be one of those people. I can assure you, the Yamaha CD-S300 is not providing that to you.

    The more revealing gear gets, the more it will expose the flaws in recordings. Recordings that once sounded great can now sound terrible on revealing gear because the flaws are exposed more. This is simply the way it goes. For me, with every Ted Smith update, another swath of recordings became difficult to listen to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  9. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Another way of saying it is this. I always had a decent stereo. One day I fell more deeply into the audiophile universe. In that world, reading reviews and internet forums, I became inspired to pursue a more transparent system. It was my belief that a more revealing and transparent system would make all of my music sound much better.

    The truth was different. "A" quality recordings did become "A+". At the same time, "B" quality recordings became "C-". That's the nature of transparency, a double edged sword. I found myself living in an ever shrinking circle of audiophile recordings, which sounded truly unbelievable. But I missed the days of my original "good enough" system because it could play a broader scope of recording qualities well. That opened a new chapter, trying to find balance. That led to the Border Patrol SE-i DAC, and then to the Marantz SACD 30n. Which for me, proved to be more satisfying thanks to a toned down level of transparency.
     
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  10. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    My name is Vaughan, and I'm a audiophile.

    :D

    I was an audiophile type once. As I've mentioned elsewhere (several times!) I am not any longer. In fact, I actively work against it in my own listening. The same carries over into my decision to not buy Vinyl at this point. Audiophiles often end up chasing gear more than anything else. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, there are far worse things you could be doing, but the issue for me was I found my pursuit of "great sound" was trumping my enjoyment of the music. That's where I drew the line. I found I wasn't enjoying things because they weren't "audiophile" enough, which for me was nuts.

    A couple examples - Television's Marquee Moon, Aerosmith's Draw the Line, The Tubes debut album and many more, just aren't very well recorded. They're great, great, albums - but they're never going to sound A+. I liked the music, hated them on my system at the time. I learned to dial things back so that I could listen to the music I love, and have good sound quality. It's the same with people who are precious about their systems not having a EQ, or individual volume controls for each channel. You don't want that junk in the chain for an audiophile system, but if makes the Bowie Ryko's sing, or helps correct some environmental thing easily, then it's far better, imo, to use them than fall into the purity of audiophile concerns.

    I've amassed a large collection of music. Some Vinyl, but mostly CD. Based on average lifespans, I have maybe 20 years left on the planet, and age being what it is a period of that will be in ailing health and deteriorating hearing. As we move into a world where physical digital media is going bye-bye and Vinyl is returning, I have to ask whether I should make the change back to the big black plastic or not. The question can be translated as, "do I want to spend the last 20 years of my life switching formats all over again?" The answer is - no. No I don't. Whatever I have - for most of the titles I'd consider essential to own no matter what format you choose - will have to do. Does the Vinyl sounding 3% better (whatever that is) justify the extra expense? Will I love that Marquee Moon album 3% more? Nah.

    Me? I'm loving my music, and I want to continue enjoying it. In my final 20 years or so (hopefully not less!!) I just want to spend as much time as I can listening, soaking up the talent of others, and relaxing. I don't went to chase any longer, it's time to rest up and simply enjoy the fruits of my wallet.
     
    jusbe, Neil S. Bulk, mreeter and 7 others like this.
  11. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Well said!

    Here are Steve Guttenberg’s thoughts on the potential perils of too much transparency:

     
  12. Paul Saldana

    Paul Saldana jazz vinyl addict

    Location:
    SE USA (TN-GA-FL)
    To the OP: I have a Philips 963SA that sounds amazing Playing either CD or SACD. All it lacks is Blu-ray or HD-DVD playback, but I have other devices for that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  13. Paul Saldana

    Paul Saldana jazz vinyl addict

    Location:
    SE USA (TN-GA-FL)
    Ha, as long as I play ‘Marquee Moon‘ through wooly sounding old tube gear and a speaker with a silk tweeter, it sounds really wonderful to me. A lot of titles from that era just need to be “warmed up”. But on B&W’s with a Krell amp it would run me out of the room!
     
  14. gudnoyez

    gudnoyez Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa
    My Marantz SA15S2 and a Oppo 105D does it for me, dont plan on replacing either of them anytime soon.
     
  15. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    i must say tha i've been really impressed the last 3 years or so with my 2nd hand BenchMark Dac1 HDR ... streaming into it and or running a cdp as a transport ... either way to my ears its clear to see that BM made a 'consumer' product from their pro stuff and decided to simply make it more useable to do so rather than actually building a consumer product per se ...
     
  16. oktapod

    oktapod Forum Resident

    Totally stunned by Jay’s Audio CD2T mk3 into Denafrips Venus II via I2S. Just stunning. Very happy bunny here :D
     
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  17. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Senior Member

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    NA, What is your view of the PS Audio DS DAC based on? Have you heard it at audio show, owned it, listened to a friends. etc.?
     
  18. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Senior Member

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    I am both amazed and a little disturbed by what I think I am hearing from people in this thread. Let me explain.

    I am an old geezer, a boomer. The first time I heard the Beatles was on the AM radio in my parent's car. I bought their first US album and played it on my parent's GE console stereo ( which I begged them to buy since before it came into the house most music came from an AM Radio in the kitchen) that used a 12D nail for a stylus. My formative years in music were the 60's and the 70's. I have spent my 50 years in consumer audio try to assemble whatever system I could afford that would get me closer to that music. More transparency is close to a holy grail.

    If I am understanding correctly, what some of you are posting is that because you like music that comes from 1990 and onward ( this is my guess about the date of the music that you like ) you are purposely limiting the transparency of your systems so that your music is more listenable. Is this right? You really do not want to be as close to the music as you can get?
     
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  19. Bachtoven

    Bachtoven Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I’m very happy with my Esoteric K-03, but when the time comes to replace it, I’d like newer version—the K03XD, which uses FPGA chips designed by Esoteric rather than off the shelf chips.
     
  20. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I never held the CD in the same class as Vinyl. I'll always have a nostalgic moment for vinyl, but not for CD.

    I do not have a CD setup, nor had one since the early 90's
     
  21. oktapod

    oktapod Forum Resident

    My recent experience - with modern R2R DACs and using at first a competent budget (Cambridge CXC) and now a premium (JA CD2T) transport is that I may have under-estimated the capabilities of the little silver disc, and over-estimated its groovy elderly relative during that time.

    Subjectively, until now, I always felt that there was something quite ‘alive’ and ‘magical’ about good vinyl that digital lacked, but that required optimal setup and selectivity over pressings and obsessive vinyl cleanliness to bring out to the fore. CD didn’t have that, but of course had convenience. It was - to my mind, at the time - lacking something. But recent developments have made me re-evaluate this.

    I have not done a direct comparison yet, but I am not sure my Rega Planar 8, on a wall shelf, properly isolated, with RB808 and Apheta 2 cartridge, playing the very best of pressings, would necessarily better the CD2T/3/Venus II. In fact, I fully expect the new digital front-end to reclaim the crown. So good is that combination, especially via I2S using only a modest HDMI I had spare from my Mac setup.
     
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  22. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I find the Planar 8, Apheta 3 and Aria incredibly hard to beat and I believe I have a very competent digital front end.
     
  23. oktapod

    oktapod Forum Resident

    It may well still be in front, but I bet by a small margin now, and entirely dependent on pressing quality. I expect the digital front-end will probably sound better for most cases, but I’ve yet to do a comparison.

    What I *am* confident of is that either won’t be embarrassed by the other :)
     
  24. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I never seem to have too many issues with pressing quality so I get pretty consistent results but I do have my romantic affection for vinyl that I'll probably never get over. Your final statement that one won't embarrass the other is absolutely true though.
     
  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    had a Marantz SA8005, sounded excellent. Now running a Luxman D05 and it sounds much better. Basically finished.
    No plans or need to go down the transport & DAC road.
     
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