Why am i now thinking of Tim Brooke Taylor on the edge of tears in a school uniform being told to "get it right!"
Well, I stumbled upon this thread back in late July, I think, and before saying anything I wanted to catch up reading everything that had been written before. I thought it would take a few days. I just finished this morning. Warning 1: I’m not a native English speaker, and not all of my compatriots can write Shakespeare’s tongue as proficiently as Fortuleo does, so I hope you will pardon my English. Maybe it will get better with practice, I’m a good reader but don’t write/speak often. Warning 2: my opinions about music are utterly devoid of any consistency or good faith. I’m not asking any pardon here. I took notes of plenty of stuff I wanted to say about previously discussed songs, but I will scrap most of these. Maybe I will smuggle a few in, if I don’t get caught. Problem is, I’m on the “Things begin to deteriorate after Lola” team, and I get to this point on the forum… right after Lola. Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned a theory according to which the declining quality of Ray’s output after the early 70s was caused by Rasa’s estrangement and departure. I am proud to say I have an even sillier theory. It encompasses the whole world of rock music. Here it is: I believe most rock stars die at 27. Of course it’s more obvious when the star actually dies, like all those famous 27 club people. But the survivors die as well. They die less, in a way, and may go on recording interesting stuff, that shows sparks of their previous brilliance, but the bulk of their really significant output is behind them. This theory works really well with some artists, especially when combined with my arbitrary tastes. I don’t care for much of David Bowie’s work after Diamond Dogs, and Kate Bush seemed to forget how to write an interesting tune after Hounds of love. Post-Songs in the key of life Stevie Wonder doesn’t compare favourably to the string of classic albums he recorded in the 70s. Lennon, McCartney, Elton John, being especially gifted, may have survived to see their 29th birthday – or maybe they lied about their age (I’m French, if reality doesn’t match the theory, we change reality). So here is my point: Ray, though equally gifted, died at 26 (my theory is already showing signs of weakness, I must compensate with more shameless assertiveness). I can tell you the precise moment of his demise: he passed away right after “Long way from home”, on Lola vs Powerman and the Moneygoround. I love everything on that album up to that song, but the last 4 tracks don’t do anything to me. The thing is, I’m a chord progression/harmony guy. I need to be surprised by the musical structure of a song to get interested. A simplistic song (musically) may grow on me with time, but it doesn’t start well. To put it differently, an unusual (for my ears) musical structure is a good predictor of my appreciation of a song after a few listens. With age, I’m beginning to correct this bias, and I'm getting better at appreciating other dimensions such as the sound, the rocking quality, the sincerity, the energy… Maybe someday I will finally bypass my brain and understand what “groove” is, with God’s help. Anyway, the last songs on Lola are either weird rockers that never grew on me (there is something clumsy about them to my ears) or 3-4-chords songs that fail to raise my interest. “Apeman” suffers from a disease that I find in a few of Ray Davies’ songs: the disappointing chorus. When I listened to it the first time, I expected more of it, and nothing happened. I had the same feeling with “Life on the road” and “Shangri-La”, for instance, but the rest of these songs redeems them. Not with “Apeman”. “Got to be free” is typical of another syndrome: the disappointing closer. To me, an album needs a musically climaxing closer. “I’ll Remember”, “Arthur”, “Got to be free”, “Muswell Hillbilly”, “Life goes on” fail me in that respect. Muswell Hillbillies, the album, has long been part of those “what do they find so great about it” albums that sometimes make me think I’m a freak (which is likely the best explanation, of course). Together with Exiles, LA Woman, Plastic Ono Band or Who’s Next. (I’m not even an “Exiles should have been a single LP” person, I'm an “Exiles should have been an EP” guy). But I must say, with age, I’m beginning to revise my judgements on most of these records. Especially with Muswell Hillbillies, partly thanks to this thread. More on it later. Sorry for the long rant, and for the silliness.
That was very interesting. I'm sure what that was, but it was veryy interesting! Well~Clone to the Party, we're glad yore Late, Man! Oui! OUI!!
Thanks WHMusical ! Great welcome poster ! Muswell Hillbillies So, I have ambiguous feelings about this album. I feel a lot of sympathy for it, but I wouldn't spend too much time with it. I love the cover. Actually I just ordered a vinyl copy (my first vinyl Kinks, they're rare and expensive) mostly because of the cover. As a multimedia object, I think it's their best. Musically, though, my favorites are, in the right order, Something Else, Arthur, Village green preservation society, Face to Face, Lola vs... I like the Something Else cover, it's elegant, even if doesn't really fit the music. Another strong point, in my opinion, is the sound. To me, this is the first really professionally sounding Kinks album. The drums, finally, are well recorded. The colors are varied. And when it sounds old-fashioned, it does so on purpose. The thematic unity is great too, but I failed to realise how much until this thread began to open my ears, and I expect it will open them more in the coming days. The downside is the music : too many of the songs rely on generic chord changes. For some of them, it doesn't bother me, and I've grown to really like quite a few of the tunes. But my relationship to this album will always lack the retrospective glow of love at first sight. 20th Century Man Contrary to what I just said, I loved this song immediately ("no consistency" is my moto). Il loved it for all the reasons already mentioned, the progression, the way Ray sings it, the drums all over the place, the energy... I love the sound of it, the way it's mixed... And I love the way that refrain line ("I'm a 20th century man and I don't want to die here") (has anybody noticed his wish has been granted ?) is sung first with no accompaniment and then, in the latter part of the song, on a string of different chords that breach the harmonic monotony of the track. Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues This one is their first song with that weird brass sound, where the instruments feel really close, with no reverb at all. I didn't know what to thing of this sound at first, but I decided I liked it. I heard it as a fun song, but I realise how it must sound different when you know someone in this condition. Holiday I love this song. With 20th Century Man, it used to be the only one I listened to on the album. I taught myself to play it when I was young ; it's one of those songs that have entered my system, the kind of song you play to yourself after a few years and realise you haven't forgotten a single note of it. The chord structure is generic, but I love the genre. It's more or less the same as The Loving Spoonful's Daydream (with a variation, I think : Holiday is I VI7 II7 V, Daydream would be I VI7 ii V). Always a winner with me. Overall, in my listening experience of these first tracks, the fun side gets the upper hand. I don't hear these songs as portraits, but as reflections on the times. Things are getting crazy, it makes us paranoids, and we go on lousy vacations to try and forget it. Well, ok, this doesn't seem that fun when summed up that way, but it does when it is sung and played by The Kinks.
Welcome to the Forum, and welcome to the thread. Thanks for the thoughtful posts..... Be confident, I think your English reads well.
Thanks Leader ! And thank you for the thread ! Impressive work. I came to Steve Hoffman's forums by an old (and cold) thread on The Easybeats, and I never experienced the verbal violence that seems to be associated with the forum's name. Congratulations on everybody for the tone and quality on this thread.
Three songs in and you like all three! After reading your “things begin to deteriorate after Lola” introduction I was expecting a not-so-positive reaction. (I laughed when I read you started reading in July and finally caught up. 476 pages now. Yes, Mark is relentless!)
Bienvenue L'homme en retard? But I won't risk any more French for fear of accidentally stepping in the merde . I really like your 27 theory. I can think of some notable exceptions (Nick Cave and Tom Waits matured like fine wine as they got older) but I agree that for most musical artists I like, their best work was recorded when they were still in their twenties.
Very entertaining read though if Exile should be an EP i will accept it only as a metal acetate test pressing in my collection beside the album proper. N.b. However if you fancy it as an EP only your prayers have been answered in this 5 Track US Jukebox 7" promo EP which you could purchase and perhaps pretend the LP didn't exist?
That would be the best of solutions ! Unfortunately, my EP would be composed of Rocks off/Sweet Virginia/Let it Loose/Shine a Light. Maybe if I ask them nicely ?
Welcome, Avid late man. Your English is excellent & your insights & opinions are welcome here. No craziness here, although I can't say the same thing about silliness!
That's the trouble with the idea that some albums could be improved by removing some of the tracks - we'd never agree on which tracks to leave off. (I expect this discussion sometime in 2023 regarding 'Phobia'). It would of course leave the opportunity for bonus tracks on the 10th - 20th -30th etc anniversary deluxe release...
First, a personal cheers to you and your kind words, @Pawnmower. Second, I like that you highlighted those 5 songs, because they go so well together : the five boozy traditional/music-hall singalongs, adding up to almost half of the record and bringing a very specific tone and color to the whole proceedings. I understand how some might think they sound less "kinksian" ("kinksesque ?" I never know) because of the brass band and simple(r) blues and traditional chord progressions but like @palisantrancho, I'm still hearing the same band that did Dead End Street and (especially) Harry Rag. Now, I'm happy to welcome a new french person on the thread, and also happy to say I have the same four favorites on Exile on Main Street as he does (and then my fifth would be… Ventilator Blues ! Are we still on the same page?). But I disagree about his "artistic death at 27" theory. Something gets lost at some point in any artist's career (any career in any professional field, really), and it's the sense of honing the craft and the spark of discoveries (of what can be done and of what I can do) that comes with it. In music, it's even more interesting, because the fans are part of that equation: the artist shares his own sense of discovery with his audience. At some point, this obviously gets lost. They know and we know what they can achieve, and that specific spark is gone. But it doesn't mean artistic death, it just means a certain rush of adrenaline that comes with first times can't be sustained forever. But the best artists replace it with something else and even, in some cases, something more. Without even mentioning other bands/songwriters, Ray wrote A Place in Your Heart in his sixties or seventies. This in itself kills that whole 27 y.o theory as far as I'm concerned.
This alone would get you permanently banned if it was my forum. Exile is too short. Just sayin' But seriously. Great writing and better English, mate. While I do not subscribe to your theory (Dylan, Westerberg. Macca and a host of others disproves it IMO, even the Stones. But this is a matter of personal taste), it is at least both well thought out and logical. That is a lot more than can be said about most posts on the Hoff. So welcome to the friendliest thread that is going and I hope you enjoy the company
It's my opinion that the Stones album most deserving of the EP treatment would be Satanic Majesty Requests
What with listening to Muswell again, and continuing to absorb the next three albums, plus that BBC concert on Friday night, I've had a bit of a Ray overdose over the last week. Thus it's good timing that my local record shop had a sale on some recent RSD albums, one of which was Dave's Bug, which I'd never heard before. Double vinyl - one lime green, one pink, but don't let that put you off! If you liked Dave's first three solo albums (which I did) then you'll have no problem with this, which is cut from exactly the same cloth. And...as the person who was put off by the pronunciation of "schizofreena", I'm happy to report that the opening track - which was listed as "Whose Foolin' Who" on the original CD release - has been through a grammar checker on this release! Any guesses as to when we may reach this 2002 release on this thread?
lol Merely a guess, but I reckon later next year..... To be honest I'm too busy and lazy to work it out at the moment lol
I, too, vehemently (heartily?! ) disagree with The 27 theory. And while I initially thought I wouldn’t name drop…I can’t resist accolades for Alejandro Escovedo’s 2018 release ‘The Crossing.’ And it’s a double album, no less, released at the age of 67. I figure we’re allowed a bit of thread drift while Mark is fine-tuning his 5.1 thread (on this bright sunshiny-but-brisk Pacific Northwest Sunday.)
Go where thou wilt.... I wish I was doing the surround thread. I am on my third coat of the walls... third coat of the ceiling just finished, and I have five doors and frames still to do ..... The blown disc in the neck hates doing the ceilings, and the tendonitis just hates the whole process lol ..... but it looks nice I've been popping in here, taking old man breaks in between an guess what!!! Time for a cuppa tea
Yea. It's an interesting theory, and possibly true in some cases. Some young artist's main attraction is their youthful vigour..... but I have too many artists that I love their, easily, post 27 work. Nick Cave, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen.... For me, even Elvis Presley's best work was after he turned 30.... The American Sound Recordings were in 69, with the Albums From Elvis In Memphis (probably my favourite Elvis album), Back In Memphis and the singles In The Ghetto, Kentucky Rain and of course Suspicious Minds ... and in 68 he released probably his finest song with If I Can Dream, in honour of Martin Luther King.... that song can still get me to tear up ....
IIRC, Sanka Sucked! NOT 100% deliecious, and why drink coffee with no (3%) caffeine in it? You mind as well "Havva Kuppa Tea! What song are we on anyways?
