Timewatching: The Divine Comedy Album-by-album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by LivingForever, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    I think it's just that one is speeded-up slightly, so the phrase is nine beats in total in both cases but one plays at a faster speed than the other. You could probably work out the exact difference in speed between the two parts by calculating how long it takes to get back to sync again, but that would take too much effort on my part. But let's say one is 90% of the speed of the other for the sake of argument and simple maths. If you think of the sequences of 9 vs 10:

    9, 18, 27, 36, 45, 54, 63, 72, 81, 90
    10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90

    So after the shorter one has played ten times and the longer version nine times then they'd be perfectly in sync again (temporarily!) When this was first done in the sixties the difference in speed between the two would've been down to the very slight difference in speed (either deliberate or accidental, I'm not quite clear on that) of two tape machines. But Neil may well have done it digitally as it would make life far easier frankly.
     
  2. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Oh god....all those numbers! Fascinating and brain scrambling, and I really don't understand the numbers but your explanation below makes sense.
    It makes me appreciate the effort involved more though - yes, surely he would have done it digitally.
    Can you tell what is going on in the live version? It is different, and it doesn't soind out of sync for very long - he starts adding harmonies at one point.
     
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  3. Vagabone

    Vagabone Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    In haste- busy day.
    Knox
    Potboiler
    3/5
     
  4. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    It sounds like Neil is singing both parts so my assumption would be that they have a pre-recorded sample that they're playing back on a loop at one speed, and that the live version over the top is being performed - presumably with the help of a click track that they can hear but we can't - at a specific tempo that's calculated to be close to the tempo of the sample but not exactly the same (otherwise there would be no effect.) I couldn't honestly tell you if the faster one is the sample or the live version over the top of it; same goes for the harmonies - they could be part of the sample or him adding them live instead.
     
  5. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Opportunity Knox

    This is great fun. This thing of taking a fairly dark story and setting it to a jaunty, vaudevillian rhythm is not uncommon, and I think it works out really well here. The chorus gets the toes tapping, and the speeding up towards the end really hammers home the theatricality of the track. (Again, this reminds me a bit of Swallows & Amazons.)

    4.4
     
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  6. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    All of those are reasonable interpretations, but my guess would be that, actually, Neil now has a fairly steady loyal fanbase that'll buy his stuff regardless of what happened last time round. But I might be wrong - maybe two 'Office Politics' style albums in a row would actively start putting people off, but with a best of in the gap (and a long time period), he's probably got nothing to worry about.
     
  7. jon-senior

    jon-senior Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastleigh
    Opportunity Knox

    It's a curious beast, this one. Like @The Turning Year, I was going to say that Overstrand is the closest thing to it in the catalogue so far, but this one is both simultaneously darker and more farcical. Darker, because it involves actual murder, and of a character we've already met. I can't pretend I've ever been hugely emotionally invested in William Bird as a character over the years (nice enough though the original song is), but killing him off was an unexpected step. But, farcical due to much of the content - the narrator has killed William but he hasn't bothered to wash his hands or clean his shoes before meeting Miss Munro, and he hasn't hidden the shovel. And that's without the more overt jokes in the lyrics - "I envy anyone who gets to be under you" is a bit Casanova-esque, isn't it?

    Does it tie together? I'd say it does, but it's probably helped by the fact that the album has sprawled through so many styles by this point that anything goes - and the fact that it's a conventional song which follow Philip and Steve probably helps too. I enjoy it - the one-man-and-his-piano effect is quite nice, and the extra instruments elevate it (strong work from the accordion on this, as on so much of the second half). I'm a big fan of the 'aaah's mid-verse. Also, having plotted parts of this album already through my their responses, my children enjoy this one too.

    So, not a favourite, but a strong middling track.

    3.5/5
     
  8. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    Isn't it all live looping? He starts with a single vocal line and then adds more and more, using the loop pedal - and then brings it all to an end when the "vibraphone" comes in. This is why he tells the audience not to clap along, he has to get the first few absolutely in time otherwise it'll all come crashing down!
     
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  9. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic Thread Starter

    I think you're right there. What that means for album chart positions is what it means for nearly everyone in the album charts of the 2020s - probably a very high entry on week 1 based on preorders (with those physical sales counting for way more than streaming), followed by an absolute plummet out on week 2!

    There's quite an interesting thread elsewhere on this forum about this phenomenon and how artists are now staggering their album releases so that they can be pretty much guaranteed of hitting the top. I wouldn't be surprised if "Office Politics" was acrtually one of his lowest-selling albums despite having the highest chart position!
     
  10. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Philip and Steve's Furniture Removal Company
    It's great that he did this, and having Philip and Steve show up is a great detail (I love the conceptual design of the stage, which had already begun on the Foreverland tour). At the beginning you can see Neil being pleasantly surprised that someone actually shouted out for this weird song instead of "My Lovely Horse" or one of the hits.

    If you disregard the definite article (as you did in your acronym), which is reasonable as it isn't really part of the multiple alliteration, then both songs have the same number of syllables in their title phrases.
    I'd say "The Synthesiser Service Centre Super Summer Sale" is the oddest one, as it doesn't have this song's vocal hook that's built upon in the instrumental midsection, which makes it much harder to digest. I'd even call "Psychological Evaluation" odder than "Philip and Steve's Furniture Removal Company". Its chorus, the only catchy thing about it, is hard to understand due to the voice effect, which makes it hard to sing along to, unlike the repeated vocal hook of this song.

    Yes, they're all put together well, with the middle sections not involving the title being my favourite ones.

    I didn't have a clue what all these references allude to (apart from the minimal bit), so thanks for enlightening me.

    Quite likely.

    Couldn't agree more.

    I have to agree with you, which is why I first thought I can't give it a 5 (also, I felt it's a bit too repetitive). I prefer the more emotionally affecting and bittersweet songs like "The Certainty Of Chance" and "The Summerhouse" or even "Absolutely Obsolete", but having listened to it again really loud, I have to concede that this is still one of the standout tracks of the album for me. Also, every section has the perfect length and shortening it would lessen their impact. So I'm happy to give it a 5, after all.

    @Hazey John II: I'd like to up my score of "Psychological Education" to 4.5. I had deducted half a point for the hard-to-understand machine voice, but your positive reading of that happily made me up my score.
     
  11. TheLemmingFace

    TheLemmingFace Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Opportunity Knox
    Just when you think this half of the album won’t have any more dull songs in it…

    It’s the canon’s final Lehreresque piano-led comedy song, but with additional accordion. I know it must seem like I hate this style of music, but that’s not the case - I really love it! I just don’t think that Hannon is a master of the style. The brilliance of Jiggery Pokery looks more and more like an anomaly.

    Unlike I Joined The Foreign Legion, which I felt had a decent comedy lyric but was delivered like it was a serious song (to its detriment), here the band/Neil have arranged a great backing for a comedy story-song, but Neil hasn’t really written enough jokes. The ‘ink’ line is great, in fairness, but none of the other bits land (for me). I like the tune when he ‘la-la-la’s around the one minute mark - but a comedy song which resorts to ‘la-la-la’ is a comedy song that knows it isn’t funny enough. It’s a bit surreal and sinister instead, especially by the end. The only bit that I ever get stuck in my head is ‘la-la-la’, and that’s saying something! 2/5

    Going back to this question now, by being slightly loose in my definition but without dipping into the Bang live tracks (which I think is cheating!), I end up with an album thus:

    The Divine Comedy: Less Divine, More Comedy
    (1) Assume The Perpendicular (Alternate Version)
    (2) One Ear Up, One Ear Down (demo)
    (3) I’ve Been To A Marvellous Party
    (4) Rose For The Lady
    (5) Opportunity Knox
    (6) The Complete Banker
    (7) Can You Stand Upon One Leg
    (8) Jiggery Pokery (DLM)
    (9) Let’s Make The Best Of It (Swallows and Amazons)
    (10) Overstrand
    (11) Ireland, Ireland (DLM)
    (12) I Joined The Foreign Legion (To Forget)
    (13) Assume The Perpendicular
     
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  12. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    I'd have to go back and listen again, but the point of a loop pedal is that it just plays back at the same speed as you recorded it. So if you set up a loop of yourself singing the main phrase and then started singing live over it fractionally offset then yes you could create the effect of having the same line being sung twice but slightly out-of-sync with each other. But the degree of phase would remain the same throughout and you wouldn't get the effect of moving into and out of phase because of the difference in speed between the two versions. And that's what crucial to the effect, at least on the record itself.
     
  13. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    I had presumed this too, but can't tell exactly what is going on!
     
  14. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    I wonder if he added the harmonies towards the end of it because he couldn't find a way to recreate the actual phasing live?
    It sounds as though by end of that bit there are only two (although possibly more) slightly out of sync vocal lines going on, with the layers of harmony being added in time with one of them.
    He could then stop the out of sync one while the harmony (but in sync) ones carried on?
    (I expect that makes no sense!)
     
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  15. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    Opportunity Knox - I always find myself slightly irritated when this one comes on, because it feels like I'm expected to follow exactly who has been doing what to who and why to make sense of it. But up to this point on the album the songs have seemed quite vague to me with any plot developments hinted at rather than spelled out to the listener. So it seems like he's executing a lurching handbrake turn into the very literal at this point. Musically it's quite drab too; there's nothing really that stands out for me. The speeding-up bit could make it a fun live track but I'm not even sure if he played it live. Anyway 2/ 5 for me.
     
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  16. christian42

    christian42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Bah, where's USE?
     
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  17. drykid

    drykid Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hereford, UK
    But it does sound like it's properly phased to me; if you concentrate on where each part sings "Philip" in turn and how far apart they are then you'll hear that that gap constantly changes as it goes along. So in that sense it seems to be the same effect as on the recorded version. And I don't see how you could do that with a loop pedal. But I'm more confident about saying how it wasn't done than I am about saying how it *was* done.
     
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  18. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    I forgot to add this about "Philip and Steve's Furniture Removal Company":

    The atmospheric spoken-word section in the middle reminds me of what Orbital did on their weirdest album track, the brilliant juxtaposition of a plastic surgery ad and a freak show announcement that is "I Wish I Had Duck Feet":

     
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  19. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    This reminds me of walking behind someone and noting, out of sheer boredom, that our step cadence is different. Then, amusing myself as to how long it will take before both right feet will fall in perfect sync, temporarily. (Little do they know what foolishness follows them. ;))
     
  20. The Turning Year

    The Turning Year Lowering average scores since 2021

    Location:
    London, UK
    Perhaps he is speeding it up/slowing it down live then over the orginal loop?
    Like this:
     
  21. Radiophonic_

    Radiophonic_ Electrosonic

    Location:
    Royal Oak MI
    Getting caught up...
    "I'm a Stranger Here": Generally I prefer to take this at face value, as considering it in the light of a veiled discussion of his own diminishing relevance as a part of the larger music scene doesn't really work for me. But I like it overall. 3.85/5

    "Dark Days Are Here Again": The female vocals at the end just don't work for me, being too jarring compared to what has come before. Otherwise...it's fine? Other than the lyrical content not relating, it feels like it could have musically fit in on the Ute Lemper album. 3.5/5

    "Philip and Steve's Furniture Removal Company": Being a big Glass fan (I've seen Glass live many more times than I have Neil, but that's more a function of Neil never coming to the US also) and an admirer of Reich, I was bound to like this, and I do. Not much else to say that hasn't already been said, though I'm not moved quite enough to give it a full 5. That said, 4.5/5

    "Opportunity Knox": Another track I enjoy. Any talk of how this fits into any narrative or what other songs are about this character really don't matter too much to me; it stands perfectly well on its own. 4/5
     
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  22. DaniMoonstar

    DaniMoonstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staffordshire
    ‘Opportunity’ Knox
    Sounds like a whimsical piece of Vaudeville. A pun on an old 70s show, which could possibly have worked quite well on that other 70s staple, ‘The good old days’ (heh, showing my age now).

    2.5/5
     
  23. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Opportunity Knox

    Another one that works well for me. I don't really understand the comparisons to Overstrand. Opportunity may start with just voice and piano, but it doesn't stay there for long. Anyway, I can't say this is a great song for me, but a solidly enjoyable song for sure. The feel reminds me a bit of Those Were The Days by Mary Hopkin which I love. Opportunity is not quite that good, but still works for me. 3.75/5
     
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  24. ericthegardener

    ericthegardener Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    In reference to my comment above:

    So I just had Those Were The Days playing on YouTube and it auto-played an old interview with Mary Hopkin afterwards. The host asks her how she was discovered, and she says that she was appeared on a TV talent show called Opportunity Knocks. That's a pretty big coincidence.

    Here's the interview:



    There are videos of her first appearance on Opportunity Knocks that she refers to, but also to a link of her performing Those Were The Days on Opportunity Knocks a decade after she'd had a hit with it.

    https://youtu.be/iXEQ1bcDkVM
     
  25. The Booklover

    The Booklover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Could this really be a coincidence?
    And then there's also this title of hers:

     
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