Grammys under fire for Marilyn Manson nomination for Rap song of the year

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Penny24, Nov 24, 2021.

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  1. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    In general, in any situation, it's your responsibility to not consent to things you don't want to do.
     
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  2. Frip

    Frip Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    But my responsibility doesn't negate yours.

    If I get swindled by a telescammer, I should have been more careful. But that doesn't make telescamming OK.
     
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  3. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    If we're talking about fraud, sure, because it's fraud.

    The whole gist of fraud is that you present it as someone consenting to x, which you've promised, but you don't deliver x, you substitute y instead. So you're doing/delivering something they didn't actually consent to.
     
  4. the scandal is that Marylin Manson should be considered for the Rap song category
    He aint no freaking Rapper ffs
     
  5. Penny24

    Penny24 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco, Ca
    It was on a Hip-Hop/Gospel album. What does it sound like to you?
     
  6. Vox78

    Vox78 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cork
    ‘A piece of garbage’? Nice.

    Ryan Adams is a complicated person and has been battling poor mental health issues all his life.
    He’s nobody’s idea of ‘ a great guy’ but the hit job on his career courtesy of that flimsy , threadbare piece of bankrupt ‘ journalism ‘ in the NYT was a disgrace.

    The one disturbing allegation was dismissed after 3 minutes of an FBI investigation.

    Read the Mandy Moore & Phoebe Bridgers ‘contributions’ for yourself. Read it objectively and try to find ONE allegation from either of them.

    Anyway, I’m out. I’ve already wasted too much energy on the Ryan Adams saga in two other threads….I don’t know enough to comment on Manson or the others.
     
  7. johnod

    johnod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada


    This was the original question i asked.

    "If asking permission isn't enough, and getting consent isn't enough, what is enough"

    If, as we're told so often ( and I agree with) "No means no", one would assume that yes means yes.

    So again the original question
    " If asking permission isn't enough, and getting consent isn't enough, what is enough"

    I don't think anyone has a good answer .
    Your answer has us second guessing/mind reading, she said yes, but means no.
    There's a lot of guys in prison for doing just that, she said no, but means yes.
     
  8. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Okay, I should have used a different phrase than "piece of garbage," so apologies for that. How you act in your personal life is more likely to affect your bottom line nowadays, is a better way to put it.
     
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  9. Frip

    Frip Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Fourteen minutes ago, it was a general rule, applicable to any situation, but now you're making exceptions.

    No, if someone is knowingly making people suffer and thinking the fact they manipulated or cajoled some sort of consent out them makes it OK, then that's the definition of a scumbag.
     
  10. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    Yeah, it sounds a bit like Jethro Tull winning for metal.
     
  11. dance_hall_keeper

    dance_hall_keeper Forum Resident

    That. song. sucks.

    Although, after further review, it may find a nice and cozy home as a favourite at wedding receptions.
     
  12. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Ike Turner and Phil Spector are dead. Taking them out of the Hall of Fame won't affect them in any way. Phil died in prison, where he belonged, and Ike should have done some time for what he did to Tina.

    All the awards Bill Cosby won could be taken away in a symbolic gesture that I imagine most people would applaud, including me. But what really matters is that he should be behind bars right now, and he's not, due to a fairly arcane loophole/technicality.
     
  13. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    Huh?

    I think you didn't understand my posts. It's your responsibility to not consent to things you do not want to do.

    You (possibly) brought up fraud. The issue with fraud isn't that it's suddenly NOT your responsibility re consent. The issue with fraud is that the fraudulent party isn't obtaining consent to what they're actually delivering (or failing to deliver as the case may be).

    If you're claiming that it's not someone's responsibility to not consent to things they don't want to do just in case someone is "manipulating" or pressuring them or whatever, I don't at all agree with you.

    Again, you possibly brought up fraud ("possibly" because I'm not sure exactly what you're thinking of as the scope of a "scam." Hence why I clarified re fraud). Fraud is a very specific idea, and the problem with it is the misrepresentation by the fraudulent party. They promise to deliver a car, say, and they wind up delivering cotton balls. If you consented to something to receive the car (say, for example you consented to give them a rare comic book in exchange for a car), but they deliver cotton balls, then they didn't actually obtain your consent for the deal, because you didn't consent to giving them the comic in exchange for cotton balls. You consented to it in exchange for a car. They promised something different than what they delivered. That's what being fraudulent is. It has nothing to do with general manipulation etc.

    If you consent to exchange of the comic book for a car, and they deliver the car and you later have buyer's remorse, that's not their problem. It's your responsibility to not consent to giving them the comic book for the car if you don't really want to make that deal. And that's the case even if they pressured you into it via whatever salesmanship tactics, whatever smooth talking, etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  14. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    unless your name is Chris Brown
     
  15. pghmusiclover

    pghmusiclover Senior Member

  16. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I agree. What I don't understand is that Ryan was never that "powerful" to begin with. I can understand guys like Weinstein, Cosby, Jackson (who I actually doubt the allegations, I've heard enough counter to make me think he didn't do it) who were wealthy, powerful and dominant in their respective fields, but Ryan Adams has always been by and large a cult musician on the outskirts of the mainstream who mostly played to a loyal fanbase over the years. The guy had always come off as someone with a massive ego long before 2019 and it didn't really matter, but out of nowhere he was destroyed and he didn't really merit the punishment he got. We have rock stars who had sex with underage groupies who are forgiven and still are held in esteem, but Ryan is apparently a slight bit of a misogynist and not a guy you want to take for a husband and he's the lowest of the low? Don't get it one bit... He didn't deserve the level of punishment he got
     
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  17. The Elephant Man

    The Elephant Man Forum Resident

    Debby Boone Grammy multiple noms in 1978.
     
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  18. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Lots of double speak when they have standards for who appears on the show vs. which no moral standards for artist who get nominated. Basically which artist/label has clout and which artists will keep the tv sponsors the happiest.

    He's also mixing up artists who did bad things decades ago vs. Artist who will more likely than not continue bad behavior.

    MM surrendered to Police. He also wrote about problematic female interactions in his book that fans weren't sure was fiction or not. Add to that accusations against sometimes band mate Twiggy when touring together.

    If the song wins, then MM gets the award hardware. I doubt there's a chance MM appears on the broadcast.

    Leaked Rihanna police TMZ photo and police report clearly had multiple strikes. Both can be found online.

    When comparing Chris and MM, some forget that Chris did the Larry King apology tour which is part of why he can continue. Also, Chris seems to have a US only career.

    We get into the court of law vs. Court of public opinion side of things and both are an inexact science. Rapes have a crazy low conviction rate, probably Under 5%. That's not because 95% are falsely accused. Statutes of limitations are another issue regarding MM. R. Kelly once had 90's camcorder video evidence against him that couldn't stick in court because it was argued that it was blurry enough so identity couldn't be 100% proven.
     
  19. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Doesn't seem like much of an apology tour when he's been in trouble with the law countless times over the past decade. He's actually banned from Australia and England because of his record.

    I think people would think differently about him if the Rihanna incident had been a one-off and he'd learned and grown from it, but his arrest record outnumbers his hit singles at this point. He learned nothing and didn't grow as a person.
     
  20. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    I don't understand the relevance of this. I really hope you aren't putting Morrissey on the same level of what Ryan Adams was accused of, or even worse, what Chris Brown and R. Kelly actually did.
     
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  21. Sgt. Abbey Road

    Sgt. Abbey Road Forum Resident

    Location:
    Graz, Austria
    Phil Spector is another example for hitting his wive, but he never wrote a violent song:sigh:
     
  22. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Saying whites are the master race is way worse than being emotionally distant to a TV actress IMO. He never hit Mandy, he never raped her, etc... He just wasn't "husband of the year", they divorced, she's remarried. He's hardly the first musician to suffer from narcissism
     
  23. Sgt. Abbey Road

    Sgt. Abbey Road Forum Resident

    Location:
    Graz, Austria
    I fully agree with you! I love Phil Spector‘s music, but personally he was a maniac!
     
  24. Penny24

    Penny24 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco, Ca
    Wait. When did Morrisey say that? :eek:
     
  25. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    he's been saying a lot of alt-right racist nonsense for the past 3-4 years
     
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