It’s Official: Steven Spielberg is Remaking ’West Side Story’

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by JozefK, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    A box office failure it seems to be, everyone seems to be repeating that fact ad infinitum - as if that is all that matters. As if everyone has Disney stock and they are worried, instead of being thankful for this art and craft. As one of the few people it seems who has actually gone to see it instead of just reading and commenting on it, I'm going to keep on singing its praises. I never hype sh1t up. But this is a special case. If someone doesn't like musicals, well I guess they should move on. But my goodness, Spielberg/Kushner/Kamiński have all done some of the greatest work of their career in this film. Kamiński has already won Best Cinematography for the New York Film Critics Circle. The nominations have been coming down like a landslide. Yes, some people don't care about critics, fine. But I think the film is something its creators should be and will be very, very proud of. I've never been more surprised about how audiences have rejected a film beforehand, like they have here. Especially considering the garbage that so often gets devoured by mass audiences.

    I've never worried about, or believed that "cinema" is dead and it's been replaced by "theme park rides" before. Now, I'm not so sure. If the online chatter/drivel was more of the common sense variety of, "well, it's too bad it came out just as the virus was resurging" or "well, it's too bad it came out at Christmas right before Spider-Man 3, AND that the virus was resurging" it would make more sense to me. But instead, there's this sense as if the creators of this film made a terrible decision in making it, and that they have made something not worth seeing. And this view is being repeated by people who haven't seen it, like an online virus itself. I can understand any single individual hating musicals, or going to see it and not liking it. Whatever. But I've read so many people saying "musicals were a hard sell even before the pandemic", when the year before the pandemic, three of the top ten highest grossing films of the year were musicals. But yeah, they were animated or CG kids' musicals. Which reinforces the regrettable idea that at this point anything that doesn't include things that a ten year old (literally or mentally) can appreciate, is now not worth putting into theaters.
     
  2. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    In the original movie, everything happens within 2 days. I don't know if preposterous applies here.
     
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  3. Number1TheLarch

    Number1TheLarch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Statesville, NC
    Greatest Showman, La La Land, Mary Poppins Returns and Les Miserables are all live-action blockbuster musicals of the last decade. Cats and Dear Evan Hansen bombed, but those were both panned mercilessly, and with good reason. In The Heights is the one that maybe predicted where WSS was going: acclaimed stage show with A-Listers behind but not in front of the camera, with prominent Latino immigrant storylines.
     
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  4. Number1TheLarch

    Number1TheLarch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Statesville, NC
    My point was that the show's timeline has always been too short.
     
  5. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    The idea that dragging out the events of WSS over a longer timeline would improve the story is strange to me. Not only does the timeline provide the tension for the story, the compressed timeline is precisely why the events play out like they do. Would an audience really enjoy watching Tony & Maria slowly fall in love over the course of six weeks? Would Chino still hunt down Tony, after thinking about it for a month? Would Tony have still fought Bernardo if say, a week had gone by after Riff's death? A "five days later" card after the rumble?

    Chino's character is more than just improved by the new version, his character just finally exists, because the original Chino is no real character at all. We see how everyone treats and perceives Chino from the beginning, and how he's uncomfortable about it. We see him join the rumble, he's been wanting to be taken seriously. Then his in theory best friend/mentor Bernardo is murdered right in front of him. This is all set up perfectly for me.

    Yes, the Tony & Maria "love at first sight" thing can seem like a stretch, but the story primes their characters for such a moment. Tony literally sings a song about how "something's coming" for him right around the corner. He's literally looking for anything good to appear and change his life. Maria is also looking, to break free of the restrictions of her family. Then, the pair see each other at their finest. Does either film version really sell the idea of "love at first sight" perfectly? I doubt it. It requires the audience to believe in it. But it is in fact their impulsiveness that leads to tragedy. Give them weeks to spend time together, the story and its events become far more unlikely. Also, the tension between the rival gangs has been building up for who knows how long, years? We begin the story at just the right time, right when the tension is at its breaking point.

    Just my two cents.
     
  6. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Am not surprised in the least that this has bombed how something like this got green lit in the first place is beyond me .
    No one cares about West Side Story in 2021 as it is old totally irrelevant and represents an era long gone .
    Am guessing this was a passion project for Spielberg but he is long past his prime and he and those involved deserve all the misfortune coming their way for embarking on such a stupid idea.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
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  7. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    A beloved musical considered by many to be the greatest of all time, re-envisioned by one of the most beloved and successful directors of all time. Yeah, what a head scratcher.

    The irony of writing that, on this, the de-facto Beatle forum, where literally hundreds of people talk about music from the same time period here daily. Oh, and sure, it's irrelevant. So glad we no longer have any problems with racial tensions, gentrification, street violence, and so on. Oh, nothing relevant here at all.

    "No one cares" - classic stuff, man. This is why I respond to you and why I've written a few times about this film. I am shocked - though I should know better - by the kind of mix of glee and bitterness people seem to have over this film, people who have no interest anyway. It's really like an illness in our culture at this point; schadenfreude. The way you talk about the people who made a movie, you sound like you are talking about criminals. It's truly bizarre.
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Yeah, I don't get it either. I've loved WSS since I was a kid and have watched it every few years for most of my life. I listen to the soundtrack every few months and never seem to get bored by it. For me, it's a timeless piece of art and I really enjoyed getting the chance of seeing of a fresher new version of my favourite musical. In future years, I will watch the two films alternating, enjoying both for their differences.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  9. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Well it may have been a beloved musical in 1961 but it certainly ain’t in 2021 judging by the numbers . As for Steven Spielberg he is beloved based on movies he directed 30-40 years ago and he has no history in directing musicals so I don’t think your points are relevant.

    With regards to relevances and the social issues you raised , I have never ever seen in books , magazines , online articles , blogs etc anyone hold up West Side Story as an accurate and worthwhile vehicle for the ongoing social issues we continue to face .
    If that is your belief that is fine but you must also believe then The Brady Bunch is an accurate and relevant portrayal of complex coming of age and family issues .

    Actually no one does care and rightfully so .
    The original West Side Story may have been released in the early 60’s but culturally it was still the 50’s as the 60’s and all the cultural change that came with it did not begin till 1964 or early 65 so it is from an era that is long gone and not relevant to today and any attempt to say otherwise is laughable.

    As for your comments re “illness in our culture “ just proves a long held belief that Musicals are the domain of the pretentious elite who thankfully are in the minority .
    Anyway bring on “The Batman “
    Can’t wait .
     
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  10. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    As I said earlier, I don't own a movie studio or a theater chain, how much a film makes matters not at all to me. My ticket cost the same no matter what the film costs (I remember the liquor salesman who wound up owning a studio Edgar Bronfman floated the breathtakingly stupid idea of charging more for the more expensive films. Fortunately that got slapped down very quickly.)
     
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  11. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    If I was viewing it on dvd I’d just skip to songs / choreography. Script was banal half - century ago. But.. the original is filmed beautifully, new one .. too much digititise.
    Lead male actor reminded of Johnny Weissmuller climbing scenes, make a good Tarzan.
     
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  12. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I feel like an even bigger Spielberg fan today than I ever was before. Both Ready Player One and West Side Story are some of the only movies in recent years that I've seen where I wanted to go and see them again the very next day. The genre and the story aren't the point so much as the pure, raw filmmaking style. The framing of the shots, the motion of the camera and the timing of the editing just make these movies an incredible joy to watch. The actors hit the right notes, the stories are well-constructed and in WSS, the songs sound as good as ever, but as examples of the cinematic artform, these movies feel vibrant and alive in ways that few movies do.

    I saw the original WSS movie one time before, in high school in the '90s. I think it was in Spanish class. I also saw My Fair Lady in English class, so maybe our faculty was just big musical fans. Lots of things stayed with me about WSS, but especially the song Tonight. I thought that was pure magic, one of the best love songs ever done. There were certainly elements that felt dated about the movie even back then. No one could mistake it for a 1980s movie, like some of us might have thought Willy Wonka was (yet another musical I first saw in school!). So when I heard Spielberg was remaking WSS, I was very excited about it. A story filled with drama, romance, violence, comedy and great music, updated to modern film sensibilities by one of my favorite directors sounded like a slam dunk.

    Seeing it in Dolby Cinema, my high expectations were met. The movie is a visual feast, and one of the rare ones that isn't obviously dependent on CGI. The leads, Elgort and Zegler, bring just the right sense of optimism and naivete to their doomed romance. They also deliver the best singing in the movie, that truly surpasses what's in the original film. Mike Faist is a surprising standout as Riff, a character I can't even remember from the 1961 version. Physically, he couldn't be more right for the part. He brings depth and subtlety to the role that gives a sense of the tortured soul underneath the aggressive exterior. He deserves a Best Supporting Actor Oscar nomination (he's earned 4 with 1 win from critics groups so far).

    I think the new Anita and Bernardo are just on par for their roles. Neither seem to have the same electricity firing them up that the 1961 actors did. Hence, the America number feels like one of the few that doesn't measure up to the 1961 movie. The actors don't seem to bring the same bite to all those cutting back-and-forth remarks. The "Anybodys" character seems to be one of the most noteworthy modernizations in the movie, as she now represents a very modern idea of a gender-neutral character, rather than the old tomboy stereotype of the original. But the problem with this character is that the actor is one of the oldest in the main cast. It made more sense to have a young teenager tagging along and trying to join a street gang than a near 30-year-old. This version of the character loses some of that cute comic charm.

    Almost all of the songs in the movie are so revitalized that it feels like you're hearing them for the first time. Most of the movie feels like the new, definitive film adaptation of the play. Tonight, and its later reprise, are magnificent and powerful. The way the characters are shot through the fire escape grates during their duet adds a level of visual poetry that's absent from the 1961 film. The new choreography for Officer Krupke makes that song even more hilarious. I'm more impressed seeing the filmmakers make visual magic happen on a small set like that than out on the city streets. It takes more creativity to make things look interesting on camera under those tighter limitations. Zegler gets the innocence of her character just right for I Feel Pretty. Elgort completely holds command of the screen for his solos Something's Coming and Maria. I think the dancing is wisely deemphasized throughout the movie in favor of what might be better termed "stylized movement." That makes it feel more relatable and modern, as opposed to an old time Busby Berkeley affair. There is dancing at the actual dance, of course, and that looks terrific.

    The dark themes in the story don't stop you from leaving the theater feeling satisfied, full of emotion and humming the songs. When you listen to the songs online later, though, you have a serious craving to see the visuals again. The visual imagination put into the film is what makes the 1961 version completely pale in comparison. This is one of the best-looking films that Spielberg has ever made. The theatricality of the material has freed Spielberg up to create grand, stylized imagery, in a way that wouldn't be possible in a traditional narrative film. Meanwhile, his natural inclination for authenticity has compelled him to work within a certain limit. This makes for the best possible motivation, to use every cinematic technique possible to make a realistic city appear more stunning and breathtaking than it ever could to someone just walking through it in real life. I don't know who asked for this movie, or if it made sense to make, but we should all be grateful that it did get made. Spielberg has taken something old and dated and made it feel newer and fresher than most of the formula franchise films that are filling multiplexes today.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
  13. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Somewhere ?
    Pity.
     
  14. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    I really liked the new version (and I was very skeptical going in)!
     
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  15. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    That's why I like Jim Belushi's line in Little Shop of Horrors, "If you two kids could stop singing for just a moment..." I don't know what other film musicals ever put in a self-aware gag like that. It's funny how Little Shop has some parallels to WSS, like the hero being semi-responsible for killing someone and later paying the price for it with his own life. But by 1986, they already couldn't get away with the dark ending anymore.

    I was thinking after seeing the movie that he should have played Han Solo in the Solo movie. I read that he did audition for the part. I think he's a good match for Harrison Ford's understated masculinity. I feel like Alden Ehrenreich was hired to play a comedy version of Han Solo, but when Lord and Miller were fired from the project, he was no longer ideal for the rewritten version of the movie.

    I was happy I could understand most of the dialogue, but I did have trouble understanding some of the English spoken in Spanish accents. I couldn't understand some of the America song, and I didn't remember the lyrics to fill in the blanks. The actress who pronounces "rare disease" in I Feel Pretty says that in a really thick accent too.

    I was staring at the rack of comic books in the drug store. They all looked appropriate for 1957, when Marvel was putting out titles like Journey into Mystery and they hadn't introduced their Silver Age superheroes yet. I wonder what kind of work goes into getting all those era-appropriate mock-ups printed up.

    When people say they watch movies on their phone, I have to ask if holding a miniature of the Statue of Liberty up to your face is the same as visiting the real thing and staring up at it. In the same way, staring at a giant screen is a completely different psychological experience than watching on a TV in your living room.

    Yes, there are controversies over things like Rachel's Tweets, the non-translated Spanish, the androgynous character, Ansel's ex-girlfriend's Tweet, the fact that Rachel's not Puerto Rican, the alleged stereotypical characters. And then there are the people who say they don't like musicals or won't watch remakes. And the fact that it's up against the 8-ball as a remake because everyone can easily compare it to the original and start picking apart things they liked better in the old version. There's also a high degree of indifference toward it, with a lot of the popular YouTube critics just skipping it. It's hitting a lot of headwind for something that is really just trying to be a simple entertainment and an homage to a more innocent era.

    I also have trouble understanding how so many people can "not like musicals," yet the Disney live-action musicals are billion-dollar earners. Is it so hard to imagine that a musical from a different brand might be good too? I actually think West Side Story has a huge amount of thematic and stylistic parallels to Disney's Beauty and the Beast.

    I do think the marketing made some huge errors. The trailer played down not only the singing but also the love story. They cut Tonight as if it's a solo song for Maria. Tony says only three words in the trailer and is shown from the back of the head most of the time. I don't know why you would try to sell West Side Story by pretending it's not a musical and that the love story is just a minor subplot. The trailer plays up the ethnic conflict more than anything else, which is hardly the movie's best selling point. It's very clear the studio was running away from Ansel in the marketing over potential "metoo" issues. But you can't pretend he's not in the movie and market it as half a movie. It was a bad case of solving a perceived problem by cutting the baby in half.

    That's a very pretentious way of calling someone pretentious. You're the only one here who sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder about the movie.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
  16. Number1TheLarch

    Number1TheLarch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Statesville, NC
    Yes, the pretentious elite were so disappointed when Willem Dafoe and Emma Thompson weren't cast as Danny and Sandy, with Mary Steenburgen as Rizzo and Gary Oldman as Leo.
     
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  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Just got back from West Side Story, and I think it was a mixed bag. I thought the visuals were beautiful, and there were good things in it, but let's face it: it's a very old-fashioned story with a downer ending, I don't think the actors were very charismatic, and it felt very long to me (and dragged in the middle). The songs are classic, the camerawork was wonderful, but I'm not sure I understand who wants to see this film. I'm about ten years younger than Spielberg, I'm a huge fan of his work, but it's not a movie I'm anxious to see again. I didn't hate it, but liked it less than I expected I would.

    Theater was about 25% full, but this was a middle-of-the-week show, and it was the smallest theater at the LA multiplex. Projection and sound quality were spectacularly good.
     
  18. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    Really nothing is a sure bet in Hollywood anymore.

    In going back over some of the early postings to this thread, and the various predictions success or failure, I was one who asked why would Spielberg do this? Now that its released I'm rooting for its success—but I think that has more to do with my respect for Spielberg than the film itself.
     
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  19. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Romeo and Juliet's been old-fashioned for about 400 years, hasn't it?

    I'm just wondering how a new musical set in the 1950s might be different from a remake of a musical that originally came out in the 1950s when it was set in the then present day.

    Of course Grease came out in 1971, set in 1959. And Little Shop of Horrors came out in 1982 as a musical remake of a horror-comedy set in 1960. And now we have a 2021 adaptation of a 1957 musical and 1961 movie that were modernizing a 1597 play into the then present day.

    I think, like Peter Jackson's 2005 King Kong, the new WSS movie is best described as a tribute to the original play and movie. There's no attempt to significantly alter the story or written material. It's just trying to show how the same script would have looked if it was discovered in a drawer and made today for the first time. So I just don't see "old-fashioned" as a worthwhile criticism to make. The whole conception of the project demands that it be old-fashioned, as a nostalgic revival of a classic from the past.

    As for the downer ending, that's not uncommon even in contemporary cinema. One of the most popular franchise movies of 2021 had a downer ending. Titanic had a downer ending. Roger Ebert's main criticism of the original WSS in his 2004 review was that Maria didn't also die. He complained not having her die was diluting the tragedy of Shakespeare's material just for commercial considerations.

    I can't say who wants to see it, but I am continually shocked at the films that a lot of the public does want to see.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
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  20. Onkster515

    Onkster515 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    This explains a lot.
     
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  21. Monosterio

    Monosterio Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Florida
    I'll be seeing this on the 25th. Really looking forward to it, too.

    Will try to squeeze in Licorice Pizza as well. Other than those two, I have no interest in any of the holiday films.
     
  22. mknopfler

    mknopfler Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sarasota, Fl
    Steven makes some good ones and some terrible ones WSS seems like a personal folly on his part, like it really didn't need to be remade in 2021. People decide with their $$ what is good and what is crap. Personally I'm mostly tired of remakes, though occasionally they do hit the mark. Judging by people paying to see this film, WSS was a swing and a miss.
     
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  23. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    In the last few days I've seen Spider-Man No Way Home (twice), and West Side Story.

    Yes, DJmover, it's possible to like both genres. Musicals require a suspension of disbelief, just as superhero movies, or James Bond movies, or slapstick comedies, or.... It just goes on. The cinematic experience is based on suspension of disbelief.

    This was obviously a labour of love on Spielberg's part, and the credit "For Dad" at the end makes that point very well. The visuals were sumptuous, the music was delightful, the acting was very good.

    I walked out a happy camper and I recommend it - especially to viewers like DJmover who think they have everytbing figured out. It's good to find out you are wrong, that's how you grow as a person if you can accept truth over the falsehoods you are perpetuating.
     
  24. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I would agree in general that the film was poorly marketed. After I saw the film, I went to YouTube just to re-experience a taste of what had just thrilled me on the cinema screen. And sadly, none of that magic comes across in the trailer. But again, I do think this film really needs to be taken in at a theater, for the full experience, and I understand not everyone is comfortable with that. The lack of attendance however has been a boon to me feeling OK about going - I saw it again yesterday at the same great theater I saw it in last week, and loved it even more a second time. I know it's not for everyone, I am pretty excited to have a new movie in 2021 be possibly my favorite film of all time now. It's just that great to me. I'm stunned by the incredible performances - particularly the actors playing Riff and Anita.

    I agree again. The idea that because the film has a sad ending means that it shouldn't be made or shouldn't expect to be successful is very odd to me, and troubling. I guess we are done with telling tragic stories? Done with catharsis? I found the film incredibly moving, and that's what I watch movies for. As far as "old-fashioned", I'm looking at the films that had top box office this year, and it's all old-fashioned stuff dressed up for today with better special effects. Comic book movies, James Bond, car chase movies, Ghostbusters... Between Spider-Man and 007 this year, it certainly seems like early 1960's material is always welcome for updating. But I guess any movie that tells a story that doesn't take place in the 21st century could feel old-fashioned? Which would be odd because the culture in general is like one giant nostalgia monster eating itself anyway. The idea that being cinematically transported to a very authentic looking NYC of 1960 is somehow dreadful today, is odd.

    Again, I know people just like what they like, and there's certainly no reason to argue. But more than any other film in my whole life I think, I am strangely surprised by the dismissiveness around this movie by people who haven't seen it, and I've been confused by the specific statements made by the people who did see it and were not impressed. Again, I know people on the internet love to diss "awards shows", but thankfully I think this film will be rewarded by the industry which should at least validate the endeavor for those involved, and I think the film will be re-assessed by the larger public down the road who finally decided to see it, or finally decided that maybe it is in fact a more relevant and meaningful mainstream movie than anything else put out this year. I know Rotten Tomatoes is not the be-all end-all, and everyone has an individual taste, but West Side Story standing at 93/94% for critics and audiences is definitely helping me feel sane, when across the internet there is so much strange negativity. But, why should I be surprised that the internet is full of negativity? :)
     
  25. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    Somebody should have told Shakespeare to watch out for those "downer' endings.

    Oh, and the entire film noir genre? What were they thinking??
     
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