Add Dual 1218/1219/1229 as additional table?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by sunvalleylaw, Jan 14, 2022.

  1. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    You're always taking a risk buying "as is" on Ebay. Maybe it would be a good idea to concentrate on getting a TT you have a good chance of getting up and running well regardless of the base? Then you can be on the lookout for the base you want and switch it out when the right one comes along.
     
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  2. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
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  3. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Oh my god, you're showing human life signs!
    Quick! Hide it! Before your employer finds out you're not an emotionless robot! :hide:
    Lol.


    But yeah, I think that if you get a Dual 1229 and put the same cartridge on it as your other tables, it'll perform quite similar.
    Not just because the cartridge is over 70% of the sound, but also because those Duals only look cheap, but their tonearm is actually quite nice lightweight.
    The idler wheel system needs to be in top condition though, the slightest thing like dust/grease causes a ton of rumble.

    Some time ago, I also wondered if Duals are good turntables or just a hipster retro object... so I made a similar thread, might be worth a read:
    What’s the deal with old Dual turntables?
     
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  4. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Thanks for the links! Was going to do a little more searching for guides to models and such today and this helps.
     
  5. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Hello there in the Netherlands! Just had to specifically say hello to you as my only trip ever to Europe was to take my mother in law, who was raised during the 2nd world war (she was a teen then) in Oosterbeek and Arnhem, back home for a bucket list trip, and then did a semi supported bike trip that gave us such fond memories. We did not make it right to your town, but we were not that far off.

    And yeah, my primary job is self employed, and my boss has been completely befuddled as to how to handle my emotions and whims! ;)
     
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  6. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Forum Resident

    So I was wrong that I owned a 1019 with the inverted base. I was curious and dug up some old photos of it and it seems it was a 1218 with a 10 inch platter. So at this point, I have no idea how the model numbers work, lol. I think the appearance that it had an inverted base in my previous pic was an optical illusion. Sorry for any confusion.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Angry_Panda

    Angry_Panda Pipe as shown, slippers not pictured

    Broadly speaking, it looks like the later 10xx models were in production until about 1971 or so, and were replaced by the first of the 12xx models at that time, though I'm sure there's more nuance to it than that.
     
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  8. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    If memory serves me the 1218 is a less expensive model manufactured in the 1219/1229 period. So that would be the early to mid-seventies. Two differences that made the 18 less expensive were the 10 rather than 12 inch platter and a shorter tone arm. Again, that's if I'm not misremembering and I'm 63 so that happens more often than I'd like to admit.:magoo:
     
  9. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    According to the proprietor of Fix My Dual (nice guy, seems to know his stuff, certainly entitled to his views), the inverted pyramid bases came only on the 10 series with 10 inch platters and early 1218’s with 10 inch platters. And he doesn’t care for the build quality of the New York company United Audio ones, out of press board and veneer. And he does not care for the smaller chassis 10 inch tables in terms of the angles and geometry with the arm, as compared to the 12 inch models. And also confirms that the 12 inch chassis larger chassis will not fit the inverted bases due to size. Apparently they sell theirs with custom made bases, that are vertical rather than angled.

    So, will need to consider what to do here. Some of you all seem perfectly happy with 10 inch platters. If I am to get a inverted pyramid base for a 12 inch model, I am either going to have to build one, or have one built. Hmm. And, would rather take some time and restore a decent candidate I find rather than just buy one I am thinking.
     
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  10. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Forum Resident

    Personally I didn't like the 10-in platters. Seeing the records hanging off the edge just felt wrong. It didn't seem to affect the sound though
     
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  11. captouch

    captouch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I would have one built for you, using solid hardwood of your choice. Maybe start a post and ask for dimensions of the 10” inverter base so you can scale it up as needed. That way, you’ll get something pristine in a wood/finish you really love. Sounds like the originals would be rare enough (if you were willing to settle for a 10” model) that getting one in great condition may be a long quest.

    My 1229 has a walnut solid hardwood base. Not inverted, but real hardwood will give you more weight to the plinth and just be more solid and robust all around.
     
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  12. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    If you did it yourself probably $100 in material? Maybe more with the increases in lumber costs recently? Having a wood work hobbyist build you one would run at least twice that much I would imagine?
     
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  13. captouch

    captouch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I traded a DAC for my 1229 and the guy I traded with agreed to build a base for me. So I don’t know what the cost of materials was, but it just doesn’t seem like a lot of wood to me and it can be in four pieces (the four sides). The top with the holes/cavity that the TT mechanism sits in doesn’t have to be the same HW and again there’s not much of it.

    So it seems to me you might be able to inquire with woodworkers/craftsman types and specify the sizes of the four pieces you need. May be able to get scrap/remnant pieces that would do the job.
     
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  14. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Thinking if I do this, this is the way I will go. Either have a base built, or build one for myself. I have a friend in Boise who does stuff like this, and he would either do it for me, or would help me. And I don't mind paying a little money for his expertise and tools. Built out of good wood of choice, and then install likely a 1229. I may try to find a 1229 with an existing base, then use the insert part that supports the actual table, and just build the inverted part around it, perhaps having to carefully bend the tabs of the insert that supports the table that stick down to attach to the wood, to accommodate the angle. Just an idea.

    And yeah, that is the possibility too, with some guidance from my friend in Boise.
     
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  15. Radio

    Radio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
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  16. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Found this set of instructions for building a planter box with a taper which is basically the same thing, once I confirm my dimensions, so feeling pretty comfortable building it myself. Will look for a template for the part that holds the table up, or just use what comes with whatever table I find either in the new box, or as a template to build a new one.

    How to Make a Wooden Planter Box
     
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  17. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
  18. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    That is probably cheaper than you can built a "one off" for, and not much more than you'll pay for one parted out on Ebay. A good deal. I wonder what they sell the dust covers for? New ones go for $100 or more on Ebay, old dinged up ones for $50 or so plus shipping on Ebay.
     
  19. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Yes, likely cheaper. But not exactly the result I want in terms of look, so may build my own anyway. :)

    I was thinking it might be worth asking them what they might sell a gone through deck alone without the OM10 cartridge and base they include, even though I was thinking rescuing my own might be fun. If it is inexpensive enough, might be worth going that route. But I bet it will be at least 500 plus shipping, as their 1229 package with the base and cartridge, which is how they sell it, is like $779 or something. That might be including shipping, I don't recall off the top.

    Oh, and they include a new smoked acrylic cover too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2022
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  20. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    And I will add that I think that Fix My Dual is not overcharging, and it is likely worth it from a time vs. dollars perspective, and utilizing their long expertise, especially if you want a good unit that you can basically plug in and play, but that might not be the experience I am looking for. (Yikes! be careful of what you wish for!).
     
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  21. captouch

    captouch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I would download a step by step maintenance guide and do your best to visualize what’s involved. If you think it’s doable, go for it. When buying a used one that needs restoration, look out for certain things after doing some research. There are things that can be replaced, but other things that can’t so easily be replaced if stuck knobs/controls (like single/multi lever) were forced, etc. It’s hard to generalize, but I’ve read that some things being broken make getting things 100% more difficult.
     
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  22. Radio

    Radio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
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  23. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Thanks. There is a nice older gentleman over on Vinyl Engine that seems to have a PDF guide and there are templates over there too in the library, plus of course the manuals.

    Thanks!

    Also, regarding making the base, I spoke with a friend who runs the Boise Vintage Audioholics Facebook page, and also does some high end cabinet work on speakers, etc. And he can cut the boards for me out of Walnut, Mahogany, or whatever I end up wanting, as cutting those angles to make the inverted pyramid come out right and come together on the corners correctly and nicely is the part I would likely struggle with, and not have the best tools for. From there, I can assemble, brace, add whatever good feet I want, etc.

    Also, he may have a line on a good, relatively local 1229 or 1229q for me, and/or a 1219, though I do think I would rather have the strobe. He had another good idea in that I could finish off my Kenny which will get an upgraded arm and a nice linear MC, and then have a nice conical such as a Shure or AT of some kind in the Dual, and use it more for unknown records I get, etc. And/or have a couple of head shells to mess around with.

    I am liking the general plan and that I likely can get the basics of what I need relatively locally.
     
  24. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    If that single / multi lever is in the single position and you plan on just operating it as a single play turntable, DON'T TOUCH IT!!!! That's a repair you don't want to have to make.
     
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  25. sunvalleylaw

    sunvalleylaw Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hailey, ID
    Ok, makes sense. If it works in single mode, leave it and don’t mess with it. It is unlikely I will use multi play, as I just don’t like the idea of vinyl records resting and spinning on one another. So, will take that advice.
     
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