It might also help to put the band into the context of 1977 in the U.K.: the year punk broke. I could imagine Ray driving around on a Saturday just after Sleepwalker was released, and "White Riot" comes over the radio. He rolls his eyes and remembers what the world was like when "You Really Got Me" had a similar effect. Rolls his eyes, but maybe also raises his eyebrow. Apparently, Pete Townshend had an absolute meltdown and healthy personal revelation at the same time. All these guys were in their early 30s and wondering how long they would stay relevant. With Townshend, that would result in some wonderful moments like "Who Are You" and Empty Glass. Leave it to Ray to come up with "Prince of the Punks" for a more cynical take on this time. I don't think it was punk so much that Ray was worried about at the time but simply the thought of becoming irrelevant (whether by his own hand, or punk's). There's a far more concerted effort to position the band as "contemporary" or what passes for that with seminal rock band aging into their 30s. Ray's strength has always been his lyrics, what drew me to the band and cemented our relationship. This is what separates The Kinks from traditional AOR, even if they slowly veered into that sound/category via FM radio (at least in the U.S.). So, I suspect Clive Davies sat Ray down and said, it's time to stop messing around with concept albums, draw on your strengths as a songwriter and craft your sound so that radio will play your music, while you relentlessly tour and promote. (Again, at least in America ... I think that may be an unspoken truth here, too, that the band shifted its energies towards making it big here at all costs.) Compare and contrast with guys like Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds. Slightly younger than guys like Ray, Mick and Pete, but still had a history of playing in bands in the 60s. Made a name for themselves in the pub-rock era. Stiff Records rolls around in 1976 and somehow harnesses the energy of punk with slightly older artists like this who never quite made it on that level. It felt like there was a world of difference at the time between that whole Nick/Dave/Rockpile/Stiff world and what The Kinks were doing, and I would guess failure was the key (the Stiff guys being better acquainted with it and less afraid). Or as Dylan once noted, when you got nothing, you got nothing to lose!
The thing about "Sleepwalker" is that it was recorded when the storm of punk was on horizon and Ray seems to have completely failed to pick up on that. So the slickest, most mainstream album of the Kinks' career ended up being released when punk was in full swing in the UK and I can imagine this album seemed pretty anachronistic and irrelevant at the time. I'm sure it was different in the US.
Wrapup on the RCA era: As noted, I had never really listen to any of the albums from Muswell thru Schoolboys (other than school boys which I had downloaded five years ago and then played once and thereafter ignored) until this thread. I consider everyone of these albums a great find. I don’t typically rank albums, I just let it happen sort of naturally in my own mind. Therefore, I’m not going to try to do that at this stage, Instead I will wait until we reach the end of the thread and I have assimilated all of their albums. With that said though, the following observations: Muswell Hillbillies: Starts out driving straight up I95 at 100 mph with an incredible rocker, then quickly takes an unmarked exit into Nowhereville USA. By this, I don’t mean that the songs are not good, but rather it’s just somewhat uncharted territory in the form of bluesy, americana, Dixieland, genre-melding, the likes of which have not been heard from the kinks, or arguably from any rock band before. I might not want to listen to this album straight through most of the time due to what I consider an absence of outright rock songs, but when mixed in to a playlist with other kinks’ songs from this RCA era, the Muswell songs are a stand out. Everybody’s in Showbiz: This one seem to be one of the red headed step children of the RCA bunch. I saw a lot of comments that suggested it was just warmed over Muswell Hillbillies. I don’t know, me personally, I love the studio album. Here Comes Yet Another Day was worth the price of admission alone in my book, joyous, upbeat and insanely catchy. I literally can’t think of the title without singing the first line of the song (see, I just did it again!). I ended up liking all of the songs on the studio portion, other than Unreal Reality. I don’t have much use for the live portion of the release. As a huge fan of One from the Road, I have no idea what they were attempting to achieve with the live part of Everybody’s…. Preservation Act 1: This was a bit of a mixed bag for me. I thought there were a couple of all time classics in Sitting in My Hotel Room, Sweet Lady Genevieve, Daylight and Demolition (and Preservation, for lack of a better album to append it to). A few songs just really didn’t connect with me though and it really made listening straight through a slog. Preservation Act 2: If I had to pick my least favorite from the RCA era, Act 2 wins! Although filled with mostly very good songs, not even one single song stands out to me as a true Kinks classic, the skits annoy me and there are a few duds scattered throughout. This is not to say I don’t like it, I just find it the hardest to get into as an album listening experience. In its defense, since it’s a double album, I am still able to find a load of good songs to add into my playlist. Soap opera: Who would have thought that the album that seems to be one of the most maligned of the era would turn out to be one of my favorites. I guess there is no accounting for taste so I won’t be defensive about it. I think the 9 to 5 through Have Another Drink trilogy is pure genius, I know that Ducks on the Wall is hated by many (and I went into it expecting to hate it myself) but boy do I think it’s hysterical and a blast to sing along with, (A) Face in the Crowd is yet another minor lost classic and in the end I like every song and find it a fun and easy listen. Schoolboys in Disgrace: To me this album is the winner because it has the highest of highs out of all the RCA albums. Don’t Look Back, The Hard Way, Headmaster, I’m In Disgrace and First Time We Fall in Love (effectively, half the album), are pure classics that pave the way forward. Sadly, the other half of the album, while all listenable, is consistent only in its inconsistency. I don’t particularly care if the concepts are half baked, for me it’s about the songs and every one of these albums it’s filled with new sounds, new ideas, crazy experiments (some of which succeed fantastically and some of which crash and burn in a way that makes it hard to look away) and, in most cases, a few overlooked Kinks classics that are indispensable if you’re a fan. I walk away from this thinking, what a great era for the kinks and boy am I thankful for this thread for helping me slow down and explore and discover it album by album and song by song. Great stuff!!!
It's surprising to hear eulogies and requiems, but every album thread I have done goes the same way. As soon as a band starts selling albums, they start getting rejected in discussions. Undoubtedly this album has a different sound.... I'm not sure I would call it too polished, but it is a softer sound, @Vangro may be right about it being an American sound. That isn't really how I hear music, so it isn't going to be something I particularly comment on. I listen to a very broad span of music, so style and sound are less important to me than songs. There are also seemingly a few more introspective, reflective types of songs, and that could well be because of the label change, but as an emotion based observational writer, it is just as likely to be Ray reflecting on the commercial rejection of his music. Ray is known to have some form of emotional/mental health issue, whether bi-polar or depression or whatever it is... as someone who has similar types of issues, I can safely assume that all of this would have effected his state of mind during the process of writing this album.... We are still quite near the Rasa incident and the possible attempted suicide incident, and now we have a whole industry, and the listening public somewhat rejecting at least the last four or five albums, and they haven't had a hit since at best 1972, with Supersonic Rocket Ship, and that was a minor hit. However we look at it, Ray was the writer of hit songs. Up until 1968 he had an enormous amount of hits..... the other thing is he was also a critical darling. The critics generally loved what he was doing, and as we have seen in recent times they have been questioning and rejecting what he has been doing for the most part... So consider this .... rejected by his wife, rejected by the buying public, rejected by the critics..... add this to his emotional issues, and you have a perfect storm for melancholy. At the end of the day we are all human, no matter what exalted platform we put any person on, they are human. It makes perfect sense to me that there would be more introspective and reflective songs on here..... and as Ray was producer and probably mixer and all of that, every aspect of this album would have been effected by his mood. If he was actually depressed... mix the drums a little lower, because they sound too abrasive, soften this and that .... it effects every aspect of ones being when they are on the down swing. I have listened to the album a fair bit in the last few weeks, but I have not really looked at anything yet, aside from Life On The Road, which will be up tomorrow, but to me it is a very good album. I hear a change of sound, but I don't hear selling out, I can only assume that nobody has read the lyrics lol ... I hear a guy in deep depression, who tries to lighten it up with a few up songs, but is given away by the more melancholy numbers. I think this album is one that seriously needs some context to understand, and I think it comes down to Ray feeling defeated, to be honest. Perhaps that's why I like it, because it has a sincerity that is quite rare. Life On The Road is a good example. It is like a resolution that in spite of all the issues, all I know how to do is live life on the road, so off I go, in spite of all the negative aspects, because I don't know how to do anything else..... The lyrics on this album are the key as to whether one will like it or not in my view.... I don't really see much change in the way Ray goes about his lyrics, I just hear a guy who is in a deep reflective mood.... He has been there many times before, and that is probably why to me, this doesn't sound too far removed from the Kinks I know and love. Interestingly also, Misfits regains the quirks that on Sleepwalker are much more subdued, perhaps missing .... I don't think that is by design or coincidence.... Sleepwalker was successful, and for Ray's mental health it probably needed to be .... so a return of confidence, and a slight lift out of a depressive mood gave Ray back part of his power.... anyway. It will be interesting to see where we end up here, because it seems many minds are made up before we have even looked at one single solitary song.
It’s amazing what one will do in the interest of pursuing the truth as to REO Speedwagon and alleged Kinks spiritual tie (so to speak). I just scoured the internet to try and find a typical American FM radio playlist for that time. What is typical? It has to mirror my own Midwest experience. Ha ha. Anyway, I was finding a lot of top 40 stuff which wasn’t FM but then I found a Spotify playlist (helps that I included the latter word in my google search) that pronounces itself to be a Latter 1977 FM playlist. Close enough. On to the mission: Will I find REO Speedwagon on this list? Here’s who I found: Electric Light Orchestra Kansas Eric Clapton Billy Joel Foreigner Styx Meat Loaf Linda Ronstadt Eddie Money Queen Blue Oyster Cult Fleetwood Mac Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers Lynyrd Skynyrd Rush Paul Simon Steely Dan Little River Band Rod Stewart Santana Bob Welch Steve Miller Band Dave mason The Baby’s Jay Ferguson Alan parsons Project Randy Newman Chicago Sex Pistols Emerson, Lake & Palmer David Bowie Elvis Costello Pete Townshend & Ronnie lane Aerosmith Heart Kiss Joan Armatrading Crosby, Still & Nash Karla Bonoff Doobie Brothers Pat Metheny Boz Scaggs Keith Emerson Genesis Wet Willie Rolling Stones Grinderswitch Robin Trower Camel Pat Travers Gino Vannelli Rick Wakeman 10 CC Peter Frampton Ozark Mountain Daredevils Sammy Hagar Ian Hunter Gary Wright Cheap Trick ———- The list was 115 songs long and many of the above had multiple songs being played. I double-checked just a few that I thought might be off on the year (Clapton and Eddie Money) but the compiler is correct. 1977 it is. Notable omissions? The Kinks (and I just checked. Sleepwalker was released February 1977 so at least one track should have been playing. And it was where I was in Michigan. Also missing? REO Speedwagon. I checked this, too. They had a live album released early ‘77. I gather ‘Ridin’ The Storm Out’ (yes, I do know this song) barely made into into the Billboard 100 so it might have been played. Okay, so this sets the scene for American FM Radio. On my dog walk I came upon the sound that one of the two Kinks FM hits most resembles and, yes, indeed, that band is included in the above list. I will wait for the big reveal for our daily song discussion.
Both Sleepwalker and Low Budget, which was recorded in the U.S., have that American flavor, even when Ray throws in a Britishism like ‘don’t think that I’m tight’ or ‘lorry strike’. Phobia had grunge coursing through it’s veins, or shall we say pooling in it’s extremities. G-d bless America.
I know they had made a lot of albums by then, but I had never heard of REO Speedwagon until Keep On Lovin' You in 1980... personally I thought it was a good song, but it never prompted me to buy any of their albums.... and it certainly doesn't sound like anything the Kinks ever did lol
I’m not sure if minds have been totally made up, but the question was to give our preliminary thoughts about the album before we start. Everyone has done that. I’m not reading a major divide. I suspect half love this album and half are lukewarm about it. I also don’t think it has anything to do with this album selling more records. It’s a style that some people just don’t care for. I listened again last night to a few songs with more focus, like I would the morning of the discussion. I am already feeling more positive about it. It’s hard to be too negative on the genius of Ray Davies and The Kinks! It didn’t hold up so well the other day on a long drive, because I would just rather listen to something else. It’s never been an album that I gravitate towards or get excited about, and I had no idea if it sold more or less than the previous records. I played a few songs for my girlfriend (of 15 years!) It’s always awkward referring to her as my girlfriend. It sounds like we are 16 years old. Anyhow, she loves The Kinks, but is much more critical of this period than I am. She said it sounded like theme music for a late 70s TV show. Then she mentioned Bosom Buddies which I believe was a Billy Joel song? I do hear a bit of Billy Joel in this new Kinks direction. I like a lot of Billy Joel, but I don’t necessarily want The Kinks to sound like him! I am looking forward to this discussion. I already have a few observations that I can’t wait to share and see if others pick up on some of the same things. Hopefully, I am not one of the avids who ruffled the feathers of @GarySteel. I have enjoyed his input on the thread. Music is something we can take personally. It can be hard to hear criticism about an album or song that means a lot to you. Many of us have been on the same page for so long. I was nervous that the RCA years would be dragged through the mud, but it was a pleasant conversation all the way around. It’s inevitable that there will be more division as we get to these later years, but we also have a few new members joining in because this is the era they love. Let’s keep on rolling!
After re-reading my previous post, I feel the need to clarify myself. I said I wasn't closely familiar with the Arista albums, but I am familiar with songs that made compilations and many that were performed live. I like a LOT of those songs, particularly the live versions. What I will be listening to more closely are the "album tracks," the songs that weren't performed and didn't make the compilations. So while I miss the range of variety we've enjoyed, extending to musical theater, I also like hard rock Kinks, and I enjoy a lot of the material we're about to cover. Not that anyone was pleading to know my exact position. But I don't want to unintentionally lump myself into any group that broadly asserts that the Arista years = bad/generic/sellout. Nope!
I don't hear anything remotely like Toto, and probably to much derision I will say I quite like Toto ..... but for me, they were a singles band. The only album i have doesn't hold my attention lol I don't think following any line, held or otherwise leads to the Kinks
Lol that's funny. I'm not really sure I ever really dated... I got picked up and eventually held onto lol
Frankly, I have no idea where the Toto and REO Speedwagon references come from. But, as I’ve made clear repeatedly, I’ve been a clean slate for most of this journey (to date and going forward). I did a preliminary brief take through the 70s and then stopped. So perhaps 80s Kinks equate to Hold The Line Toto? I have no idea (and I’m not going to do a wiki search of Toto to find out if they were active in 1977. My personal brain waves sets them as an 80s thing). It sure is a fun conversation, though. At least I’m enjoying myself.
I took a Kinks break yesterday as I drove up to Seattle. Drive-by Truckers to Seattle (and have dumped one playlist song. Always ready to inflict the knife!) and a nice jazz list on the return drive. I’ve already written up my Track 1 thoughts for tomorrow’s discussion so maybe I’ll get cracking on Track 2 now.
The UK pretty much ignored them chartwise so what else could they do? I personally however don't think their post One For The Road albums are particularly American market oriented. Songs about Diana Dors, 40s British dance hall days or the punk rock excursions of GTPWTW aren't exactly going to strike a chord with the average American. It's Ray's talents as a songwriter that helped do that. If he were catering to the American market you'd have more Rock N Roll Cities-type songs. IMHO the first 3 albums after One For The Road are just as good, if not better than the three preceeding it. To me as an American the Kinks always kept their Britishness in a way their contemporaries did not. YMMV of course.
I'm deciding whether to re-write my track one thoughts ... but I don't know if I have time.... I'm am currently doing some very manly tasks ..... I just sewed up the pocket on my work jacket, and now the painstaking task of hemming some curtains lol
That's a startling, brain hemorrhaging list you posted. I'm sure while many folks were groaning through the list, I was smiling. But I can assure you, "Juke Box Music," at a minimum, was all over FM radio in 1977, and "Sleepwalker" to a slightly lesser extent. FM radio was on the verge of locking into marketed playlists by then, but still slightly open to letting their DJ's have a more free hand. And those great live shows they'd routinely play, sometimes via the King Biscuit Flower Hour, or sometimes even sponsored live events in any given city (in my case, that meant WMMR or WYSP with shows in Philadelphia). I'm surprised there are no documentaries about 1976-77 and the rise of AOR, because that's exactly when this major shift in programming started taking place. In 1978, REO Speedwagon would breakthrough big time with You Can Tune a Piano but You Can't Tune a Fish, led by "Roll with the Changes." I'm also surprised that your list didn't have The Talking Heads ("Psycho Killer") and Elvis Costello ("Red Shoes" and "Alison"). They were surely being played on my FM stations (those two Philly stations and WZZO out of Allentown). I think the "AOR' handle came into play more so because by then, record companies had learned how to market music to their listeners, and you had a few of those massive mid-70s albums that raised the financial stakes much higher in terms of what could be accomplished. Looked at another way, it was a bit of a compliment: you needed a solid album to succeed on radio, with multiple tracks that could be picked up by radio. Bands strived to have good albums, not just one-off singles, a direct offshoot of all those legendary 60s bands raising the bar on what was expected to survive.
It's interesting to me the Juke Box Music seems to have been a popular in for this album. It took a while to grow on me. The song Sleepwalker was my way in to this album..... after buying it. I never heard any of it on the radio
Yes, I know both those Kinks songs were being played on FM. Spotify guy just missed it. Edit: or maybe he has an early 77 playlist that includes it? Maybe I’ll check later. Am shopping now. Elvis Costello: yes, it’s on the guy’s list. I forget which song.
You are exactly right. You also just summed up the rest of the Kinks existence. Ray Davies damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Father Christmas is the best Xmas song ever. It should've been on album. On Sleepwalker Ray wanted a hit album and succeeded. What's wrong with that? Man had bills to pay and had to put food on the table like the rest of us. Though album chartwise the "comeback" started with Soap Opera. If Sleepwalker is a sell-out than bring on more sell-outs! Nothing wrong with having and getting your songs on the radio.
Juke Box Music is top shelf Kinks and one of Dave's top guitar performances. His playing really moves the song along and when he joins in harmony vocals it's beautiful in a way only a Kinks song can be. That high harmony is such a signature to the Kinks sound.
I think it comes down to that, yes. Certain musical idioms/genres/production techniques just don't go down well for some people (I have a similar discussion with my five year old, who can't comprehend why my wife doesn't love ketchup). I wonder what a thread like this would look like in 50 or 100 years (I feel like the Kinks, as well as the band my avatar tips as another favorite, will still be discussed for a long time to come). With Dostoyevsky, for instance, you hear a lot of "the Idiot feels unorganized" and that it might be because he was "under pressure" to crank out a certain number of pages a month to dodge bankruptcy (so, production technique; market forces) but you rarely hear "I can't stand the Idiot because it reminds me of [generic Russian monthly installment hack novelist]." It wouldn't mean certain sounds/songs/albums/phases weren't still a matter of taste (three cheers for differing tastes -- that's what I tell my five year old), it would just mean that associations with proximate musical forces/trends/practitioners would be less... visceral. Given the musical-historical experiences (& expertise) of people posting here, it only makes sense that we're saying "this kind of thing was more like that kind of thing, and meanwhile x was doing y and the people who really liked y were the same kind of people who liked z, but it's weird that x wasn't more like w," even when it inevitably carries a bit of "I got so sick of hearing z all the time back then." It all ties in with the great, intensely personal stuff like when we first heard certain albums, if we were heartbroken when we heard them, even what car we were driving at the time. Although the best art always winds up seeming sui generis, it's always rooted in the context of what else was going on at the time. But how important is that, ultimately? (That isn't a rhetorical question, I really don't know). It's a very useful analytical tool, but what sort of weight should we give it when we're looking at the career of a band which (I believe) people will be listening to long after the vast bulk of music from their era is long forgotten?
Regarding Clive Davis, I'm a little bit cynical about how much credit to give him...I suspect he probably gives himself a lot of credit for his many career achievements! I'm tempted to buy his autobiography, as I find almost any music-related biography interesting, just to find out.... Bear with me when I make a slack comparison with Simon Cowell, arguably an even bigger ego who feeds and feeds off The Industry, in that you hear old Si saying how 'he' has had however number one records and you realise he really does believe that it was down to his existence that these records came to be. In the roundabout way that an artist needs signing and promoting you could say that is true but the crux of it is that the music we truly love isn't created by some soap star doing another by-numbers rendition of Unchained Melody or a just-litigation-swerving clone of another recent big hit, it is generally those who have developed organically and wouldn't get past the first round of a 'feel the quality/"world class potential"' 'talent' show. I'm probably doing Clive an injustice in mentioning him in the same breath as Cowell but career guidance, while no doubt useful for an artistic ego perhaps prone to self-indulgence, still requires that odd-ball, creative person, the one who comes up with the ideas. You adhere to certain rules and you will generally get certain results but not always the most inspired ones. Ray was asked about 'Come Dancing' in an interview many years ago and said: "Did I think 'Come Dancing' would be a hit? Clive Davis didn't." I find that quite telling, if we take Ray at his word; perhaps understandably, Clive wouldn't want to (alleged Mike Love phrase!) "**** with the formula" and 'Come Dancing' was not exactly cut from the same cloth as those tracks which he'd overseen in the few years before, but it was the breakout hit, bring the band back into the UK top 20 for the first time in a decade. So who really knows best? Thank you for your indulgence once more!
