The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    ‘On The Outside’: what a frickin’ masterpiece! Seriously I think this is one of Ray’s best ever songs period, and it’s approaching CRIMINAL that it wasn’t released at the time in some form, although at least Ray saw sense and finally let it ‘come out’ (twice over) in the 90s.

    Seriously: the empathy and love in this some as conveyed by the beautiful melody and tender lyric is IMMENSE. Over Powering, to me anyway. I’ve mentioned before I’m a huge Beach Boys fan, and though more of a Kinks obsessive I wouldn’t want to choose between the two catalogues, and also sometimes I have doubts and think ‘well Ray isn’t as much of a direct channel for human emotion and love as Brian, he can’t quite measure up to the Beach Boys purest moments’ but then WHAM I’ll remember a track like this and I’ll know it’s not as simple as that, that Ray can indeed get there to BBs level Godhead and blow you away with his level of understanding reassurance and warmth conveyed through melody and lyrical honesty.

    Re: the coming out theme WHY was this one suppressed at the time when the sneering of ‘Prince Of The Punks’ and the drastically inferior juvenile smirking of ‘Out Of The Wardrobe’ (LOL he’s a big man in a dress but his wife got into it!) ) on the next album made it out the gate? Was Ray afraid of appearing too intelligent and talented a writer on LGBT themes or something???

    I don’t do top 100s etc, but if I did, song wise (maybe not as an actual recording) this is up there for The Kinks and Ray. Like top 20 at least. SERIOUSLY overlooked. I was trying to give praise to the main Sleepwalker songs where I could find reasons and holding back on my problems with them, but this reminds me what was missing from that album. Had it been included on the LP, this one track alone would have improved it immeasurably. If you ask me, it’s comparable to The Beatles leaving ‘A Day In The Life’ off Pepper!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  2. ARL

    ARL Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    "On The Outside"

    On first listen it sounds like a nice enough track - musically it's slap bang in the middle of Sleepwalker territory, but vocally it recalls the Ray of earlier in the 70s. Lyrically it sounds like a warmup for "Out Of The Wardrobe" on the next album. I don't think that it would have sounded out of place on Sleepwalker, but then I don't think it would have added anything that it doesn't already have.
     
  3. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I’m not 100% sure and I’m miles away from my Hinman, but I seem to remember Ray mentioning something in the Waterloo Sunset comp liner notes about that track being recorded with Jim Rodford and Mick Avory after Dave had gone home, which would prob place it early 80s.
     
  4. the real pope ondine

    the real pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    oh, this is really good, i love the descending (?) keyboard riff, 'hey baby blue....' chorus. wow... and those dreamy high notes. Was this part of the dropped story line somehow? I can't see any reason to leave this off the album, I think it would've been a highlight, really beautiful
     
  5. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    On the Outside
    is such a fabulous track, so sweet, so melodic, so easy flowing… Somehow, I agree it’s not a completely fleshed-out song, some chord changes and melodic turns could even be considered meandering in places, not 100% finished perhaps, but it adds to the flow of consciousness, spontaneous, almost whispered in your ear quality of the song. The melody is just… sublime. Do you really find the voice "mannered" ? I'm really surprised by that observation. To me, Ray sings with no affectation whatsoever, the contrast with the Poseur outtakes being huge because of that. And it's not a genre exercise either, like most Sleepwalker songs were. No, this time, we get Ray in his singer-songwriter mode, singing a heartfelt song, no character, no distance, no filter, something he hadn't done at this point in… in how many years ?? We'd have to go back to Dreams or the Way Love Used to Be, from Percy to hear him do something like that
    I absolutely love that the second verse is the one giving us the subject matter, which is really unusual in pop writing. Most times, the subject is laid out in front of us right from the start, and then developed by the following verses. But here, we don’t actually understand Ray talks to a closeted gay person before the middle of the song. It gives the piece a deeply personal, intimate power. The song seems to be addressed to a girl, possibly a teenage girl he might’ve known. He doesn’t speak to us, in order to introduce the character. No, he actually speaks to her directly so at first, we don't really know what’s going on, as we’re on the outside. What a beautiful trick that is… It makes it one of Ray's most tender moments ever and just because of that oh-so rare quality, probably my very favorite of all his songs from that era.
     
  6. Steve62

    Steve62 Vinyl hunter

    Location:
    Murrumbateman
    ..catching up after a few days away...
    Artificial Light, Prince of the Punks, The Poseur, On the Outside are all varied in style and stronger songs than most outtakes. To my ears they also sound nothing like Sleepwalker; they don't have the glossy production sheen, muted drums or any other of the features - good or bad - that characterise the album. I wish there were another six outtakes from the same sessions because I think these bonus tracks would be the basis of a pretty solid album.
     
  7. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    There are! (At least!) … it’s just the others have never made it out of Konk HQ. Ray reportedly wrote between 20 and 30 songs for this project. I think Mark listed all the other known titles in his opening Sleepwalker post many pages back. Can’t remember all the titles but there’s one called ‘Back To ‘64’ and another called ‘Child Bride’… actually I remember something about an acetate of a 10-track acetate of an early version of Sleepwalker inc. ‘Child Bride’ going on EBay a few years ago so maybe someone out there has that one.
     
  8. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Aisle agree with that if lost and found!
     
    Steve62, markelis, DISKOJOE and 2 others like this.
  9. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Cool song, Ray demo no?
     
  10. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Is nobody going to mention that the opening vocal melody of this track completely rips off "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" by Stevie Wonder? This song is kind of all over the place, the "Hey baby blue" bit is like the Beach Boys for instance, and, despite having some nice parts, doesn't really cohere. Also the arrangement is so bland and limp. Lyrics are interesting, although it's no "Candy Says", and before we give Ray too much credit he was soon using the subject matter for some cheap laughs on the next album.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  11. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Ouch! I wasn't familiar with the song, but on checking it out I can definitely hear the strong similarity on that one moment, but I don't think it's song-destroying egregious or anything. The Kinks song is going for such a different vibe and message that it doesn't stick out to me as a huge clunker, it's more like it's crossing the same path on a different journey.

     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I'm not exactly sure really
    There seems very little info on it at all
     
    DISKOJOE and All Down The Line like this.
  13. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    On The Outside

    Not heard this before unless it was on the 1998 Velvel CD and I just forgot it over time?

    It starts off and i think of a slowed down Venus by Shocking Blue.

    Here Ray again uses the weather as a metaphor.

    Ray sounds engaged and empathetic and i have no doubt had met crossdressing fans in the States circa 1970-'72 whether it be at Carnegie Hall or through Factory Konnections?

    I do enjoy the understated instrumental ensemble playing from 2:00 onwards, to me what Gosling plays is not far removed from what Max Middleton played on the early 70's Jeff Beck Group albums.

    A pleasant song but nothing really stands out to my taste.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  14. Martyj

    Martyj Who dares to wake me from my slumber? -- Mr. Flash

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I like it. When it first came out on the reissue I remember playing this over and over. Even all these years later I still can't decide a preference between the original 1977 mix or the 1990's version.

    Favorite part: the vamping during the guitar break reminds me a bit of stuff on Arthur's "Australia" and "Mr. Churchill Says," all of which evolved, in a very subtle way, from Daves groundbreaking guitar break on You Really Got Me. To my ears, at least.

    It is indeed puzzling. According to Hinman at least one Sleepwalker track, "Life on the Road," was re-recorded with new lyrics to change the character from being unambiguously gay (rather than the remaining, more vague "Hey are you gay, can you come out to play, like a fool I went and said Okay..."). I wonder if that was at the behest of Clive Davis, a man who later came out as gay but at the time was closeted. Perhaps "On the Outside" was a bridge too far for him, what with it's entreaties for LGBT people to be "out." Who knows?[/QUOTE]
     
  15. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Now I'm in front of a computer and not just piddling on my phone , I've managed to locate what Ray said about 'The Shirt' in the liner notes to the 1997 Singles Collections/Songs Of Ray Davies Waterloo Sunset 2CD comp from 1997, which is the only release 'The Shirt' has appeared on: (Info from here: The Singles Collection/Waterloo Sunset )

    'The demos are an assortment of ideas from the "Come Dancing" period ("Come Dancing" itself started as one of these demos). It worked like this. Mick Avory and Jim Rodford would usually stick around after Dave Davies and keyboard player Ian gibbons left the studio and I would start jamming and then shout out the chords through the headphones. Then I'd sing rough lyrics or snippets of the dialogue as the songs were sometimes incomplete. I'd then take the rhythm track home and dub onto a four track where I would lay the final lyrics. Sometimes the songs had different "Titles or Codes".

    For example, "The Shirt" - started life as a long piece called "Reefer Madness". This was when I was ensconced in New York City writing songs for an Arista album. The song was about a guy from Yonkers who went Bonkers on a date with a girl from the East Village. After he'd indulged in a night of recreational drug taking he is wrongly identified as the murderer because of a bloodstain on his second-hand shirt which was ironically already there when he bought it in a thrift shop (at this time, I was actually buying a lot of my stage clothes from a second-hand clothing shop on the upper West side). I suppose "The Shirt" could be called an anti-drug song.

    Clive Davis - Head of Arista Records had signed the Kinks as what he described as an "A.O.R. Crossover Act". We'd just left RCA where we'd been recording our Theatre shows - "Preservation" and "Soap Opera" and the Arista move was intended to take us back into the mainstream away from the craziness of these concept shows. I felt that "The Shirt" (or "Reefer Madness") as it was then, would have been a step back to these concept albums.

    As for the track itself, I wanted Mick Avory to do a Gene Krupa style jazz drum solo to give the feel of 1940's film Noir and if the track had been taken further, I would have put on horns in the style of Stan Kenton. The song was also a rebellion against some of the M.O.R. songs Clive Davis was trying to get the Kinks to record at the time. The saying "It's cool but don't play it to Clive" was a signal for the studio engineer to lock the tape away in a drawer then throw away the key. Commercial stability was uppermost in our minds but now I think that if we'd had the conviction to actually complete the recording of "The Shirt", Clive would probably have gone for it.'
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Cheers. I'll tack it on State of Confusion.
    :righton:
     
  17. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Didn't the Sex In The City television series share a similar vibe to the opening?
     
  18. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    I like your attitude!
     
  19. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    On The Outside:
    I’m hearing this for the first time and think it’s great. Three levels above a couple of the songs that made it onto the album (no, I can’t say which ones as I’ve already forgotten the titles).
     
  20. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Oh.......Brother?
     
  21. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    :D
     
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Initially the keys make me think Evil Ways Santana, but the song takes a different direction after that. The easy rolling style of the intro does remind me of something, and perhaps it is Shocking Blue, as suggested by @All Down The Line ...

    Lyrically, I initially get the impression that the first verse is describing someone with agoraphobia, yet after reading the rest, there are a few clues as to the direction Ray is going.
    You've got nothing to wear seems like a subtle reference, in the sense that the clothes this person has are either not suitable for them, or for the public.
    Also the "something hidden in you", "keep it out of view", "you shouldn't feel any guilt" all allude to something deeper going on, but as someone stated (@Fortuleo ?) the meat and potatoes come in in the second verse.
    The first verse ends with the idea that this person needs to step into the world, and not let themselves fade away in hiding.

    The Baby Blue reference makes me think of Badfinger more than anyone else, and the smooth pop of the song doesn't seem like it would be out of place for them either.
    Initially when I looked through this second verse, I sort of assumed it was about a guy, but the idea that this is a female probably makes more sense.... but it can be awkward to determine, as many trans folks prefer to be referred to as what they feel rather than what they are ... for want of a better way of phrasing that...
    So I am still up in the air about whether we are addressing a male or female in this one.... essentially it doesn't make much difference in the overall sense, but it would slightly change my perspective on a couple of lines.
    Particularly "So stop acting like a lady come and cry like a baby on the outside"
    If this is a male, that line could be seen to be a little insensitive, in the sense that to a male it seems like it would be saying stop dressing up like a female and get on with it... come outside and cry all you like, but stop pretending to be something you're not.
    Whereas if it was to a female, it would seem like it is saying the same thing, but from a reverse perspective. Stop pretending to be a lady, if you are going to live as a man, and get out here and cry with the rest of us about how messed up life is....
    I don't know, it is an awkward lyric in some respects.

    The third section looks at the internal war the person is facing.... and lets face it in some way, all of us have certain things about us that make us feel different, perhaps even to the point of feeling like we're freaks, and the world is so messed up, it isn't as if there is much to dissuade us from that feeling..... I have always found it odd when people talk about being normal, because I am not exactly sure what is or isn't normal ...
    I like the fact that Ray is telling this person, whether male or female, that they should just open up the blinds and participate with the world as best they are able .... the only thing that it pays for any of us to be, is an authentic version of ourselves... sure we all have masks to some degree, but the only use we have in the world is to be who we are to the best of our ability, and keep the masks as small as we are able, to protect the little things....
    I also like the reference to "what you are is nothing new", because as original as we may feel, there is nobody at this stage that hasn't been in a similar scenario to us..... whoever we think we are, and however that presents. There is nothing new under the sun, and if we are caught in the notion that we are a/the bone fide original, we are really living in a vanity laced world of self importance.

    In the last section it is interesting also, because although the lyrics from Kindakinks.net say Glad In The Gay, I wonder if the lyric is actually glad to be gay? (because there were a ton of typos in the lyrics that I noticed last Thursday, but I didn't have time to go through them all this morning) That would be an interesting return to the Tom Robinson chronicles, wouldn't it?

    Musically I like the set up here. As stated by others it is a pleasant rolling melody.... It's interesting that some folks hear this as being completely removed to the songs on Sleepwalker, because it sounds like it slots in pretty smoothly to me.
    Without having a chance to listen again at the moment, the chorus? melody is one that seems like it will stick, but for me most of the album was filled with those.... there actually isn't a song on here that I can't recall, or can't sing some part of the main section in my head, so it is also interesting to me that so many folks seem to not remember a lot of the album.

    That's about all I have from memory.... Oh, I like the acoustic rhythm guitar, I thought it was really cool.

    A very good song, that for me is no better or worse than all the other excellent songs we have looked at over the Sleepwalker album.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  23. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    Reading the liner notes posted by @ajsmith , I don't understand if The Shirt dates back to the Sleepwalker sessions or to State of Confusion's.
     
  24. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    It's probably State Of Confusion, as Ray says it was from the same batch of demos as 'Come Dancing' came from.. also Ray mentions Rodford and Gibbons as being in the band at the time.
     
  25. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    He sounds as if he was going back further in time when telling the story of the song : New York, the new recording context with Clive Davis... Maybe the song was written back then and demoed in 1982-83 ?
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine