The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    It's definitely 100% quoting 'Glad To Be Gay', the Kindakinks transcriber just dropped the ball on this one. 'Glad In The Gay' would be some mega awkward phrasing, somewhere between nonsensical and offensively blunt.
     
  2. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    I love all 4 outtakes/B sides. As I said, I inserted them in the Sleepwalker album and the result, to me, is a much lighter and better album. I only have one problem : the way I've arranged the tracklist leaves me with a 16' A-side and a 21' B-side, and I can't figure out how to change this. I'll have to make some drastic choices, or maybe include "Elevator Man", which is in the same light vein as the other 4, but not as good.

    Life's a bitch.
     
  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I actually read it the same way... but we'll go with State Of Confusuon for now.... I like the song, and I think it would actually fit Sleepwalker quite well..... but we'll get to it later
     
  4. The late man

    The late man Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    I have to listen to it, it may solve my Alternate Sleepwalker problem !
     
  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I'm just listening to Elevator Man for the first time ever this morning.... really a pretty interesting track
     
  6. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    Brian and Ray are without a doubt my two favorite songwriters, particularly from a melody standpoint. Emotionally, I think Brian connects more on the melodic level, and to me, it is more rare for him to connect purely on a lyrical emotional level. Exceptions would be Til I Die, several songs from Love You, and the emotional themes and lyrical topics of Pet Sounds. But to me, Ray has been doing this over his whole career, and (relatively now) early songs like Too Much on My Mind, Rosy Won't You Please Come Home and Rosemary Rose just hit me in the gut now when I listen to them. Today's song is another!

    Ok now Child Bride sounds like a bizarro world Adult/Child project, so maybe it is true Brian and Ray are cut from the same cloth...
     
  7. Jasper Dailey

    Jasper Dailey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast US
    On the Outside: What a nice one to (almost) wrap the Sleepwalker period up with. The gentleness of this track is what really distinguishes it for me (that, and the great, refreshing melody/chords with some unpredictable twists and turns). It's so interesting to juxtapose Ray's caring, supportive songs like this with his somewhat cold curmudgeon reputation. The duality of man, I guess (ha, that could be a rejected title for this song). Anyway, as was already noted, it's strange to see this song as the one stuck in the can and Prince of the Punks and Out of the Wardrobe as the ones that get released. The Arista/Clive Davis angle makes sense, but I also think Ray had a bit of that Lennon-y facade/defense mechanism going on (oh no, I've done it, I've Invoked Them :hide:), especially in this time period.

    Anyway, a great song. And I forgot to mention, the song reminds me a bit of Carole King -- especially the "Somehow I know..." bit, but with the unpredictable chord changes too. It's a shame that this one isn't more well-known.

    ETA: @donstemple makes some great points above. Who needs Child Bride for Adult/Child when you could use Art Lover instead? LOL
     
  8. Fortuleo

    Fortuleo Used to be a Forum Resident

    A few notes, yeah, it's there. It's not the main melody of either song, more just a passing phrase, but still a hooky/defining one.
    I have no information whatsoever about that, but I'd be surprised. Great as Ray may be, I can’t see how such a song could be addressed to an invented character or be part of any made-up story. The delivery itself is too direct, too heartfelt and caring, like a sweet embrace offered to someone special. We listeners might feel invited to coil ourselves in it, but I can't help but thinking we would overstep our bounds… To my ears, this sounds like a very personal message to a very real person. That's one of the reasons @ajsmith's Beach Boys comparison rings very true, it has the same kind of direct almost naive intimate quality some of Brian Wilson mid-period self-penned songs have, the simplest most personal ones (and long unreleased) like It's Over Now or Still i Dream of it. Maybe that’s why On the Outside remained in the vaults (on the inside…) for so long ? Maybe it was like another one of my personal favorites, Pictures in the Sand, that Ray reportedly never wanted out in the world because he'd written it for his daughter ? Songwriters do sometimes offer songs as private gifts to loved ones. I wonder how many masterpieces are lost on us, the never satiated fans, because of that…
     
  9. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    You did have a great time this past weekend, judging from your write up on another thread. Well, at least you're back home w/the doggies. Anyway, "The Shirt" only appeared as a bonus disc on The Singles Collection from 1997 called The Songs of Ray Davies Waterloo Sunset. It's a demo recording and according to Ray's liner notes, it was composed around the time he was writing songs for Sleepwalker.

    As for "On the Outside" I hear a few good bits and bobs of a song that doesn't quite come together in either version.
     
  10. markelis

    markelis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami Beach FL
    On the Outside: I guess all of the Marks are pressed for time today, I have a full day of meetings stacked up. I like the song, and frankly I like both versions about equally. Definitely like Dave’s acoustic guitar work in the solo of the 1976 version. Very nice backing harmonies, and a nice smooth feel.

    I think this song is good enough that it could have made the album, but then it would’ve been one of the lesser tracks. Both sound-wise and topic-wise, it would have fit. Isn’t it funny how when you discover a track like this that was an outtake or a B side you end up being a little more forgiving and probably a little more excited at the find.
     
  11. donstemple

    donstemple Member of the Club

    Location:
    Maplewood, NJ
    On the Outside

    This is a great song, and amazing it was held in the vaults for so long, and it's a shame this is not on the streaming services. Parts of the verse and overall theme remind me of Rosemary Rose a bit... a real empathetic portrait or someone who is afraid of letting others know of their true selves.

    I too am a bit perplexed by the exact meaning of line "So stop acting like a lady come and cry like a baby on the outside". It reminds me though of "You look nothing like a child, yet you're such a little baby" from Rosemary Rose. The line sounds good though to the ears. Perhaps Ray means stop acting "lady"-like as in being "reserved", and to just be more open and to not be afraid. It might be tough, you may cry, but it will be alright in the end. We're all in this together, and I am here to help, and getting out there will be worth it.

    Musically this sounds like a late 60s or early 70s Kinks song but with Sleepwalker's electric piano added. It's got that great descending pattern, great backing vocals. I love it. It should have been included somewhere and released back then. It had potential to be a bit of a rallying song and may have helped those who felt trapped inside.
     
  12. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
  13. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Yes, I think so. Acting like a lady, being lady-like, gentleman…all these terms have undergone change just during my lifetime. (My biggest shock, people referring to criminals as, “the gentleman pointed the gun at my head and ordered me to give him the keys to my car.” Or, “I could see two gentlemen running away from the fire.”)

    Anyway ! I take the lyric to mean that it’s okay to let her feelings out and cry like a baby.
     
  14. the real pope ondine

    the real pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    i agree, also 'cry like a baby' as go outside and face the world whether they accept you or not, live your best life
     
  15. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Just a co-incidence of course, but ‘Cry Like A Baby’ was a hit by The Box Tops, fronted by Alex Chilton who Ray would later become a close personal friend of during his New Orleans period in the 00s. (As documented in his Americana book). Obviously not an intentional reference by Ray in 1976, but a kinda neat bit of serendipity.
     
  16. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    "On The Outside"

    Earlier I mentioned the liner notes on the 1998 Velvel CD reissue of Sleepwalker were wrong concerning the info on these two mixes released there.
    The 1977 mix is the mix that had been previously issued in 1994 on the UK Waterloo Sunset '94 CD single.
    The "1994" mix is identified as the mix released on that CD single, but this is incorrect. Like "Artificial Light", it seems these two tracks were remixed in 1997/1998 for their release on the Velvel CD. Chances are that if this had been remixed in 1994, then that would have been the mix on the CD single instead of the 1977 mix.


    "The Shirt"

    Doug Hinman's 1994-96/97 Supplement contains the info on that Singles Collection and bonus CD. It dates both of the demos "The Shirt" and "My Diary" as being recorded at Konk circa Jul-Aug 1997. It might have been written decades earlier , but indeed, the vocal here sounds like '90s Ray to me so I would say this is probably accurate. I would say these were recorded specifically for that set.
     
  17. ajsmith

    ajsmith Senior Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    ‘My Diary’ I agree sounds like a 90s Ray solo recording. (He also did it live solo circa the turn of the millennium which to me would suggest it was a recent song at the time). I’m not so certain about ‘The Shirt’ given Ray’s specific references to the Come Dancing period and Rodford and Avory’s presence in the liner notes… Kinda Konfusing…. Maybe it was an early 80s backing track that he finished off in 1997?
     
  18. pyrrhicvictory

    pyrrhicvictory Forum Resident

    Location:
    Manhattan
    Could be...In his book Complicated Life Johnny Rogan cites it as a Sleepwalker outtake though I always took that as erroneous due to Ray’s own liner notes.
     
  19. Paul Mazz

    Paul Mazz Senior Member

    There is - on what I think is a pretty cool Hal Willner produced compilation, Angel Headed Hipster: The songs of Marc Bolan & T. Rex, not that I know Marc Bolan’s work all that well.
     
  20. Brian x

    Brian x the beautiful ones are not yet born

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    On the Outside

    This is going to take longer than a couple of listens to digest but on first impression it's a beautiful track and baffling that it wasn't released in some form at the time.

    There is some thematic and lyrical similarity to Stormy Sky -- speaking directly & intimately to someone, encouraging them not to be scared, the weather metaphor, a nice easy groove -- and the person being addressed feels like s/he could be a cousin to the heroine Juke Box Music. True self/false self themes resonate throughout this period, & again seem to be illustrated in the record sleeve.

    Not having been involved in this thread from the beginning, I don't know if this kind of wealth of unreleased tracks was common for the Kinks. Was Ray going through a particularly fecund phase in this period? Maybe it came from processing the various masks he was discarding and the ones he was considering putting on in the future.

    At any rate, this is a startlingly intimate and emotional song, tender, empathic, and delicate. The little tributes to/borrowings from Stevie Wonder and Shocking Blue are well-integrated and don't grate. I agree that the acoustic lead is particularly pretty. Something in the song also reminds me of the (much later) In Quintessence by Squeeze, or at least anyway the songs would segue together nicely...

    I hear "be glad to be gay," which is pretty breakthrough for the time, when "gay" was a go-to schoolyard taunt and homosexuality was considered a mental illness where it wasn't outright illegal. The Kinks probably could've salved a lot of heartache and probably saved a few lives if they'd released this at the time.
     
  21. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    !! Now you’ve gone and done it. :D (I’ll take ‘On The Outside’ any day of the week.)
     
  22. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    Could be. The only info we do have is from those CD liner notes which are vague and Hinman's supplement which does list a date so it might be a combination of dates and years. Possibly started some years before and finished later with overdubbing or re-recording. The vibe keys sounds in the middle sound like 90s keys to me but that could be a later overdub. There might also be multiple demos recorded in various years decades apart. In the liners, Ray mentions the "Come Dancing" demo itself dating from the early 80s. Released on the Picture Book box set, instrumentally it sounds very different from "The Shirt". No way of knowing for sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  23. DISKOJOE

    DISKOJOE Boredom That You Can Afford!

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    [QUOTE="Brian x"
    Not having been involved in this thread from the beginning, I don't know if this kind of wealth of unreleased tracks was common for the Kinks. Was Ray going through a particularly fecund phase in this period? [/QUOTE]

    Avid Brian X, we did talk about the wealth of both Ray and Dave songs from the VGPS era that ended up in albums such as The Kink Kronkiles & The Great Lost Kinks Album. That era from 1966 to 1968 had a wealth of great tracks.
     
  24. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Ray 'borrowed' the phrase from Tom "Prince of the Punks" Robinson, who did release a song of that title. Thinking about it, it could be a reason Ray didn't release the song, though he could just have re-written the lyric.
     
  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Ok, just so we're all on the same page... because frankly I'm somewhat discombobulated at the moment

    Tuesday - Elevator Man
    Wednesday - Father Christmas
    Thursday - Misfits album
    Friday - title track
    Saturday - Hayfever

    So on, and so forth :righton:
     

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