The Kinks - Album by Album (song by song)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Apr 4, 2021.

  1. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    I just stumbled upon this pic recently. The boy is Dave in case that's not obvious. I do think Ray takes after his mum and Dave after his dad(tho not particularly obvious in this pic). Their parents were so old when they had the boys that they look like their grandparents. That's a sister on the left.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    You may well be right but several here think Ray is in the bunker, even stating the song should not have been on the album and possibly not even recorded.
     
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  3. TeddyB

    TeddyB Senior Member

    Location:
    Hollywoodland
    It may well be true that Ray liked to be provocative, but this song wasn’t acceptable in 1978 either.

    Also, we likely know what Art Lover is really about, and it’s lovely, and even if it’s a “character” it’s likely based at least in part on Ray’s life. There’s even a giveaway line for the character (“just a substitute for what’s been taken from me” - divorced dad). It’s one of my handful of favorite Kinks songs of the eighties.

    On the other hand, I thought Black Messiah was a misfire from the first time I heard it, even if Ray is trying to be empathetic. It’s not exactly deep racial, political thought and he probably should have scrapped it. As gamblers say, the game isn’t worth the candle.
     
  4. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Hinman book excerpt (found on google books. Won’t let me copy, damn it. So have to type it out.):
    Black Messiah/Misfits single released in the U.K. Melody Maker’s reviewer almost reluctantly pans it. “Why this week? Why me? Thirteen years ago I loved The Kinks and went on liking more of their singles than I didn’t for a good few years after, but now like Slade and the Moody Blues, they sound old and irrelevant. Black Messiah is reggae but it’s Ray Davies and the Linguaphone Rasta accent feels uncomfortable without the wit and invention of 10 cc’s ‘Dreadlock Holiday’ which it uncomfortably calls to mind.”
    —-end—-
     
  5. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    :laugh:
     
  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The interesting thing I found today from reading through.... and i can't remember who posted the reference I'm going to make, so apologies .....

    From the outset we got told pretty straight that Ray doesn't write about himself.... and most of the time that's fairly true, but their are an awful lot of very deep personal type songs, and often they seem like he isn't just the observer..... tomorrow's song is certainly personal, but....

    A post today, I think, captured an important fact.... a lot of the time when Ray did write personally, he added other elements to depersonalise it somewhat... again tomorrow's song is a perfect example....

    The thing is, that it seems to me at least, Ray writes kind of personally, but with a universal eye, and other times he writes as completely the observer, and others again he writes in character....
    So it can sometimes be difficult to separate them... this actually gives Ray great freedom in his writing, because he can write the most personal song, but it seems like it is a character study, which gives him some ability to hide himself in his songs, and not feel exposed.
     
  7. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    Interesting in real time the MM reviewer saw the faux-reggaeism of the SOUND worth a critique, but nothing about the ideas/character expressed in the lyric, which is a sign that the ideas expressed were not THAT shockingly outre or "not said" at the time.
     
  8. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    RE: Black Messiah...maybe it's because my husband used to be a ska band, but this song is SKA, not reggae. Reggae normally doesn't have horns.
     
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Are you holding the noodle? :agree:
     
  10. Brian Doherty

    Brian Doherty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA
    But to question myself: the very use of the lyric "everybody's got the right to speak their mind/so don't shoot me for saying mine" DOES show the character/singer is aware he's saying something a lot of people very much are not going to want to hear said.
     
  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The other thing is, those people are probably everyone. This song pokes at everyone a bit really.
     
  12. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    “All art is autobiographical; the pearl is the oyster's autobiography.” ― Federico Fellini

    There's no way to separate the art from the artist.
     
  13. Cornelius Plum

    Cornelius Plum Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alexandria VA USA
    On one hand this should be one of my favorites on the album, which is probably my favorite post-RCA album altogether. I regret the general loss of campiness from Sleepwalker onward, so musically this always brings a smile to my face.

    And yet... years ago, being puzzled about the intended meaning, I did an internet search, and the first extended analysis I found took me to what turned out to be a white supremacist site. Clearly the author of the article saw a definite message in the lyrics.

    So at the very least some of the lyrics are ambiguous enough to lend themselves to unfortunate, mistaken (surely?) interpretations.

    I love Ray's music and lyrics dearly, but as a dad of biracial kids, I wish someone would have asked him to more clearly articulate the meaning of "White's white, black's black, and that's that. And that's the way we should leave it"
     
  14. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Good observation.

    Separately, I also found a ten-year old blog site where the blogger announced he would no longer permit comments about Black Messiah; that it was too stressful.
     
  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That is the line that sticks in my throat, because I can totally see folks mis-using it for another agenda.
    The fact that a white supremacist group posted this really shows how stupid people can be, because it clearly doesn't line up with their MO. I think it quite clearly rejects it, but a couple of lines are too vague for the topic at hand, and that's one of them
     
  16. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    I picked up this album on release in the UK. When I head BM, as I fondly call it, I thought the lyrics were a problem, I’m glad Christgau called them out, and his Enoch Powell crack has always stuck with me. I still can’t listen to this one, alas.
     
  17. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Absolutely my thoughts also, they should be kept and if anything some other ambiguous lyrics edited out.
     
  18. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Ray said this about Black Messiah? Even after choosing it to be the single? If so, do you know when he had misgivings?
     
  19. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I have no problems whatsoever listening to this track, musically it's a total earworm, I find it running through my head all the time. One of the worst things about it though is that it's such a lame attempt to write a song from the point of view of a dubious character. I mean, who cares about this guy and his problems in his neighbourhood and this other guy who lives on his block? "Art Lover" is much more effective and therefore actually more uncomfortable to listen to precisely because it is so effective at putting yourself inside the head of a creep - it's the sort of thing Lou Reed was good at. So, if the actual character in the song is uninteresting then maybe the message of the song is strong enough to compensate? Well, no because no-one can work out what the message of the song is. So epic fail from Ray on this one lyrically.
     
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  20. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
    Do what I am doing with the Redbeard audio interview with Ray. Download a voice to txt app and just dictate the words. Give it a shot!
     
  21. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Yes like a Julie(an) Finkle!
     
  22. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    As for Ray getting 40 lashes from a wet noodle we have already heard from @The late man IIRC that it is two noodles with Frenchmen at the helm!
     
  23. ThereOnceWasANote

    ThereOnceWasANote Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape May, NJ
    Ummm, yeah (sarcastic ironic tone). Yeah Ray time-traveled to the 21st century and then went back the 70s and wrote a song about their poor plight.

    "...but I also get the feeling that Ray is very pissed about the reverse racism happening today against whites."

    Yeah ole Ray was really pissed about what's happening today 45 years ago (wanted to get a head start I guess).

    As for BM...

    Here's what I want to believe:

    Clive "suggested" , "hey Ray baby reggae is white-hit right now how about you take that pen of yours and you and the boys do a reggae song. We'll release it as single if you do."

    So Ray did as requested and came up with Black Messiah. "Here ya go Clive ole boy! A single you say, well ok!"

    The inclusion of a bit of music that wouldn't sound out of place on one of the concept albums Clive didn't like was sort of subtext to his little fu to Clive's "suggestion".

    At least that's what I want to believe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  24. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    That could Sting.
     
  25. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line The Under Asst East Coast White Label Promo Man

    Location:
    Australia
    Yes I think Ray stated that his mum surprised his dad by unexpectedly having Dave at 47, clearly no Foxtel in those days!
    Edit: And it was so cold so perhaps their home situation was semi-detached?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022

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